Discussion Can prophecy be a Word of knowledge or a Word of wisdom?

[geetrue]

You don't have to be a prophet to prophesy, right? I'm not a prophet, but I get these Words from the Lord (knowledge or wisdom). Like the last one really confused me for a long time so I won't repeat it, besides the CF forum staff does not condone prophesy. I sure can't blame them with so many people thinking they are prophets. I am not a prophet okay just making that statement right now ... Just a Spirit filled regular ole nice guy

 

[tampasteve]

From what I understand you are correct. I have read the statement that Paul would prophesy occasionally, but he is not regarded as a Prophet.

 

[Francis Drake]

The Lord spoke through the mouth of an ass to Balaam.

He also used another unregenerate ass, the High Priest who unknowingly prophesied the truth.

John11v49But a certain one of them, Caiaphas, being high priest the same year, said to them, “You know nothing at all, 50nor do you consider that it is profitable for you that one man should die for the people, and the whole nation should not perish.”

51Now he did not say this from himself, but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus was about to die for the nation, 52and not for the nation only, but also that children of God, those having been scattered, He might gather together into one.

If God can use an ass, and an unregenerate, much more he can use any believer.
1Cor14v5Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but even more that you would prophesy; and greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edifying.

As Paul makes clear, prophecy, or tongues interpreted, should be the regular norm in all churches

 

[mourningdove~]

You don't have to be a prophet to prophesy, right? ...

Right.

The Holy Spirit can choose to work through us however He chooses.

"But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills." (1 Cor. 12:11)

Since you appear to have some questions about the spiritual gifts ...
specifically, 'the difference' between the gifts of knowledge, wisdom, and prophecy ...
it might be helpful for you to do some further study into each of these gifts, to gain a deeper understanding of them.

The Holy Spirit is a Wonderful Teacher to us.

And here is a thread on spiritual gifts that might be helpful to you. (The thread is entitled: "The Holy Spirit and His Work". Lots there, but Post #12 specifically addresses the Revelation gifts.)

http://www.armyofprophets.com/post/the-holy-spirit-and-his-work-3134551?highlight=spiritual+gifts

God bless, geetrue.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

You don't have to be a prophet to prophesy, right? I'm not a prophet, but I get these Words from the Lord (knowledge or wisdom). Like the last one really confused me for a long time so I won't repeat it, besides the CF forum staff does not condone prophesy. I sure can't blame them with so many people thinking they are prophets. I am not a prophet okay just making that statement right now ... Just a Spirit filled regular ole nice guy

Prophecy can contain words of knowledge and words of wisdom when the Holy Spirit wants to convey them in that way. Sometimes a word of knowledge or wisdom coming through a general prophecy can be less "threatening" if not directed at a specific believer. But the believer listening to a prophecy directed at the church in general can be convicted that elements of the prophecy are for him in particular.

I was in a meeting of 400 people, and when the pastor preached his sermon on people being hurt by the church, the Holy Spirit said, "This is for you in particular". His sermon reflected everything that I had experienced and felt. That pastor did not know me from a bar of soap, because I was a visitor to the church. That sermon had elements of the word of knowledge in it for me, and I recognised it and was greatly healed and encouraged by it.

One important thing to remember about the word of knowledge: If you get a word of knowledge for someone, it may be just for you to know and not to share in the form it came to you. Then you need a word of wisdom on how to share it with the other person. The example of this is where the pastor had a word of knowledge about one of his married elders having an affair with a single woman in the church. If he had shared that publicly or even to the elder directly, everything would have blown up, the church divided, the elder resigning and the pastor fired! So he asked for a word of wisdom. The elder came forward for prayer at the altar call, and the Lord told the pastor to pray, "Lord increase this man's faithfulness and love for his wife." The elder broke down and confessed, and after private counselling the affair was ended, he was reconciled to his wife, and his eldership was saved (after an appropriate period of standing down until his domestic affairs were settled).

A young man came forward for prayer, and the pastor got a word of knowledge that the young man was addicted to pornography. The Lord told him to pray that the young man would be totally cleansed from all unrighteousness. The young man came afterward for private counselling, confessed, received further prayer and exclaimed, "I have never felt so clean in all my life!"

Much harm to good people have been caused by unwise people blurting out words of knowledge in public without asking for the Lord's wisdom on the best way of sharing it. This is what brings the word of knowledge into disrepute and causes good people to shy away from it.

 

[geetrue]

Let's say I recieve a Word of Knowledge or a Word of Wisdom ... Would I be allowed to share it with y'all?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Let's say I recieve a Word of Knowledge or a Word of Wisdom ... Would I be allowed to share it with y'all?

You need to determine whether it is for you to give you insight to pray for that person, or, if it needs to be shared, then you need to know from God exactly how to share it with the person so that it has a good outcome, not a harmful one.

I gave examples of the need for wisdom in sharing words of knowledge in a previous post.

 

[geetrue]

I thought all prophecy was to edify the church ...

For example the Lord told me a year ago that "if the church had unity the devil would tell the church what to do"

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I thought all prophecy was to edify the church ...

For example the Lord told me a year ago that "if the church had unity the devil would tell the church what to do"

Did you miss out a word? I can't believe that the Lord would ever say that. The devil can never tell the church what to do because Jesus said, "I will build my Church and the gates of hell will never prevail against it." I think you would need to seriously consider where some of these words of knowledge are coming from.

 

[Francis Drake]

Did you miss out a word? I can't believe that the Lord would ever say that. The devil can never tell the church what to do because Jesus said, "I will build my Church and the gates of hell will never prevail against it." I think you would need to seriously consider where some of these words of knowledge are coming from.

I disagree Oscarr. The Lord has given me far worse words about the church than that.
Just like Paul said about Israel-
Rom9v6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
The same can be said of the church, "Not all Christians are of Christ!"
So while the Lord is building his church, men are building their church of wood, hay and stubble right in its midst, and many true Christians are taken in by it.
If it were not true that the devil can tell the church what to do, why would Paul warn against doctrines of demons?
So returning to the post by @geetrue I believe that one of the false gods that the church pursues is unity.
The Lord's true unity is simply a fruit that occurs when people pursue a closer relationship with the Lord. The history of the church at large pursuing unity as an objective is utterly appalling, it has led to every form of falsehood and paganism entering the church.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I disagree Oscarr. The Lord has given me far worse words about the church than that.
Just like Paul said about Israel-
Rom9v6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
The same can be said of the church, "Not all Christians are of Christ!"
So while the Lord is building his church, men are building their church of wood, hay and stubble right in its midst, and many true Christians are taken in by it.
If it were not true that the devil can tell the church what to do, why would Paul warn against doctrines of demons?
So returning to the post by @geetrue I believe that one of the false gods that the church pursues is unity.
The Lord's true unity is simply a fruit that occurs when people pursue a closer relationship with the Lord. The history of the church at large pursuing unity as an objective is utterly appalling, it has led to every form of falsehood and paganism entering the church.

I see what you are getting at when you speak of unity. I have always defined the difference between "union" and "unity", where union is a group of people agreeing with one another and "unity" is being one in the Spirit under Christ. A church can strive for "union" where everyone has to agree with the going programme or doctrine and dissenters are pushed out. Because there are wheat and tares in our churches, union is not acceptable for true believers. And the ones motivated by a religious spirit cannot be part of the unity in Christ. That's how I see it.

As far as words given, read through the prophecies in the Old Testament, the tenor of them has not only warning Israel and Judah of their idolatry and the consequences of it, but there is a strong call to return to the Living God. The purpose of the prophetic, whether it be prophecy or words of knowledge, is that it not only reveals the faults, but contains a strong call back to faith in Christ and commitment to His Lordship.

The type of words of knowledge that I would have great concerns about are those that are applied to specific people, revealing sin in their lives and blurting out these things in public. I gave an example of a pastor getting a word of knowledge that one of his elders was having an affair with the church secretary. Blurting that out to him in public would have destroyed him, the secretary, and blown the church apart. So, when the elder came forward in an altar call, the pastor encouraged him to greater faithfulness to his family. The elder broke down and confessed and got right with God. So, an embarrassing word of knowledge can be revealed to you, but you need the word of wisdom to know how and when to share it with the person concerned.

But general words of knowledge and prophecy to the church is a different matter, because they are not directed at specific individuals, but along with the negative side, there needs to the way out through repentance and faith in Christ.

I have had a recurring word of knowledge about my own church - that the axe is laid at the foot of the tree and that if it doesn't bear fruit it will be cut down. I preached that one Sunday morning as a warning that we need to pray and seek God that we as a church may bear fruit for Christ in our community, otherwise the Presbytery will come and close our church down and sell the property.

 

[mourningdove~]

I thought all prophecy was to edify the church ...

For example the Lord told me a year ago that "if the church had unity the devil would tell the church what to do"

Since it was you that heard these words, I hope you will post to share what you believe them to mean.

As a 'stand alone' statement, I found the statement you posted to be 'confusing' ...
perhaps because it's not my first response, to think of church 'unity' as 'bad' or 'evil' ...
but, after reading Francis Drake's post, I can also see his point ...

 

[geetrue]

Unity means, "Peace of brotherhood" the church has been through a terrible conflict just the reformation alone proves that. At one point in time no one could read the Holy Bible except in Latin ... men burned and crucified for changing one translation into another one. Religious freedom came at a price for sure, but even today Kenneth Copeland is trying to instrument unity between the Catholic Church and the Protestant Church. I don't want to start an argument or now we call it a discussion about the Catholic Church or KCM ministries. Just trying to point out the will of God is not for the church to have unity ... look at our languages and the denominations of currency. The anti-christ wants to rule with a one world authority.

The best we can hope for is a church that fights back, but as you well know many will say that wrong is right and that we should take the number 666 to get medicine and food. Whoops I haven't had my coffee yet.

Thank you mourningdove~

 

[Francis Drake]

Unity means, "Peace of brotherhood" the church has been through a terrible conflict just the reformation alone proves that. At one point in time no one could read the Holy Bible except in Latin ... men burned and crucified for changing one translation into another one. Religious freedom came at a price for sure, but even today Kenneth Copeland is trying to instrument unity between the Catholic Church and the Protestant Church. I don't want to start an argument or now we call it a discussion about the Catholic Church or KCM ministries. Just trying to point out the will of God is not for the church to have unity ... look at our languages and the denominations of currency. The anti-christ wants to rule with a one world authority.

The best we can hope for is a church that fights back, but as you well know many will say that wrong is right and that we should take the number 666 to get medicine and food.

Excellent stuff @geetrue.
The following article is surprisingly from a Catholic website. It shows the Vatican's attempts at creating religious unity in the world.
What true believer wants to be a part of such unity.

Anti-Pope John Paul II with Pagans, Idolaters, Infidels (Photos)

 

[geetrue]

Good thing that I am just an old man now. When I joined 12 years ago I was young man lol

Now we have to wait days for a response to threads ... You know what I think it's a faster paced world here at CF and even the internet it self. People have more choices now and less time to respond. Takes too much effort for the mouse and the KB to be put to good use. Makes the few that do respond even more precious, uh?

 

[Alithis]

Let's say I recieve a Word of Knowledge or a Word of Wisdom ... Would I be allowed to share it with y'all?

as a testimony or a specific word of knowledge for someone ? in some ways it can only be tested if it is brought forth

 

[Alithis]

Unity means, "Peace of brotherhood" the church has been through a terrible conflict just the reformation alone proves that. At one point in time no one could read the Holy Bible except in Latin ... men burned and crucified for changing one translation into another one. Religious freedom came at a price for sure, but even today Kenneth Copeland is trying to instrument unity between the Catholic Church and the Protestant Church. I don't want to start an argument or now we call it a discussion about the Catholic Church or KCM ministries. Just trying to point out the will of God is not for the church to have unity ... look at our languages and the denominations of currency. The anti-christ wants to rule with a one world authority.

The best we can hope for is a church that fights back, but as you well know many will say that wrong is right and that we should take the number 666 to get medicine and food. Whoops I haven't had my coffee yet.

Thank you mourningdove~

the rather insurmountable problem is . not all who call themselves the church, are the church at all . so any unity with that false entity would be a compromises and denial of truth
that cant be allowed . so the true can never ever have a unity with the false .
But don't worry we will know who the false is. they will alienate , ostracize,demonize ,persecute,imprison and execute the true ... just like the devil trued to execute the lord ,so shall he try to execute the lords disciples .. globally .

 

[geetrue]

the rather insurmountable problem is . not all who call themselves the church, are the church at all . so any unity with that false entity would be a compromises and denial of truth
that cant be allowed . so the true can never ever have a unity with the false .
But don't worry we will know who the false is. they will alienate , ostracize,demonize ,persecute,imprison and execute the true ... just like the devil trued to execute the lord ,so shall he try to execute the lords disciples .. globally .

True, but we only have one New Testament too ... the Next Testament will surely include all of these trials and tribulations we have gone through in the last 1.988 years since Jesus took off and left us with the Gospels and the letters of St Paul.

I did find this in this morning's bible study:
Ephesians 4

Walk in Unity
I, therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you to keep the unity of the Spirit

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

the rather insurmountable problem is . not all who call themselves the church, are the church at all . so any unity with that false entity would be a compromises and denial of truth
that cant be allowed . so the true can never ever have a unity with the false .
But don't worry we will know who the false is. they will alienate , ostracize,demonize ,persecute,imprison and execute the true ... just like the devil trued to execute the lord ,so shall he try to execute the lords disciples .. globally .

The Scripture says that the foundation of the Church stands sure, the Lord knows those who are His. While we look on the outward of appearance, God looks on the heart, and the Lord who sees the hearts of all people, knows who is motivated by the Holy Spirit or a religious spirit.

Those who are motivated by a religious spirit are more aligned to the works of the flesh as lists in Galatians 5. They may not be involved in the grosser sins on that list, but can be caught up with contentions, factions, jealousies, envy, self ambition, outburst of anger when things don't go their way. They are the ones who have a "holier than thou" attitude toward those with lower standards than themselves. Some are easy to spot, but others put on a good pretense of spirituality and can fool a lot of people. But they cannot fool God.

Those who are motivated by the Holy Spirit are loving, joyful. peaceable, kind, gentle, faithful, good, patient, and self controlled. Those are the ones who get alongside weaker believers to encourage and strengthen them rather than judge or criticise them. Paul taught this that anything that we might do that might offend weaker Christians and cause them to sin, we should refrain from doing.

No true believer is perfect in their behaviour and that is why we need to be patient and forgiving of others' faults and shortcomings. As far as knowing who is true and who is false, we are to be, as Jesus advised, wise as serpents and harmless as doves.

 

[Alithis]

The Scripture says that the foundation of the Church stands sure, the Lord knows those who are His. While we look on the outward of appearance, God looks on the heart, and the Lord who sees the hearts of all people, knows who is motivated by the Holy Spirit or a religious spirit.

Those who are motivated by a religious spirit are more aligned to the works of the flesh as lists in Galatians 5. They may not be involved in the grosser sins on that list, but can be caught up with contentions, factions, jealousies, envy, self ambition, outburst of anger when things don't go their way. They are the ones who have a "holier than thou" attitude toward those with lower standards than themselves. Some are easy to spot, but others put on a good pretense of spirituality and can fool a lot of people. But they cannot fool God.

Those who are motivated by the Holy Spirit are loving, joyful. peaceable, kind, gentle, faithful, good, patient, and self controlled. Those are the ones who get alongside weaker believers to encourage and strengthen them rather than judge or criticise them. Paul taught this that anything that we might do that might offend weaker Christians and cause them to sin, we should refrain from doing.

No true believer is perfect in their behaviour and that is why we need to be patient and forgiving of others' faults and shortcomings. As far as knowing who is true and who is false, we are to be, as Jesus advised, wise as serpents and harmless as doves.

does harmless mean we stand idle and silent while people perishing in known sin justify it and drag others down with them?
or do we ,as peter says , warn All men ....
in the eternal picture ,which is more loving ,since love seeks not its own but the good of all others.
there are twoforms of rebuke indeed.
there is that of the holy Spirit and that of religious spirit.

they are not hard to discern in the end.
the religious spirit seeks ways to murder those of the Holy Spirit.
history has proven it to be the case.
we may rebuke a man for the error of his ways and warn him ,and we are to do so.
and that is all.
the religious spirit rebukes a man for warning peopke ,seeks to silence the person and ultimatly puts them to death in anact of murder saying they are doing Gods work .
as it was for Our lord ,so it will be for his disciples.