If you agree that Calvin was wrong on 2 points of the tulip, how can you convince anyone he was right about 3?
Not trying to take this thread off subject. I will end it here.
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I was an Arminian saved as can be. Also a Dispensationalist and Pentecostal. It was only after hearing about the Limited Atonement doctrine by accident that I fled those persuasions and now rest in God alone for my salvation. After years of study I believe the first 3 of the 5 points of Calvinism are true to scripture.
It takes study and objective reading to prove someone wrong. Calvin only believed 4 of the 5 points. The Synod of Dort came up with the 5 points.If you agree that Calvin was wrong on 2 points of the tulip, how can you convince anyone he was right about 3?
Not trying to take this thread off subject. I will end it here.
No trinity = idol worship. = damnation.Trying to summarize all the posts so far: It seems that only @Dave L and @Al Masihi don't think no-Trinitarians can be saved.
I like statements by @Charlie24 "It is my belief that only one doctrine must be believed to enter into the Kingdom of God. The misunderstanding of the Trinity does NOT doom one to hell. Unbelief in Jesus the Saviour is what will doom ones soul," and @hedrick "No Standardized Theological Achievement Test." It's not clear whether @SkyWriting meant the same thing or meant a more universalist understanding.
The distinction of OnePens noted by @Sabertooth is appreciated. @tampasteve added interesting info regarding INC and LLDM. Perhaps these belong in the Unitarian category that I failed to include in the OP? In the same category would be small groups like Christadelphians and World Wide Church of God before they changed their theology & name.
I have a particular problem with groups that consider themselves the only true Church of God. These would include JW, INC and LLDM.
It's after they hear the doctrine and reject it that they reject Christ and worship an idol in his name.I also appreciate the distinction about Oneness Pentecostals vs the other non-Trinitarians. I don’t think someone has to have full understanding of the Trinity to be saved, and many who believe in the Trinity have very flawed understanding of the Trinity. Will God save them? I don’t think so, especially in the case of those who don’t believe in the divinity of Christ. Regarding the others, the question becomes - how distorted can ones’ view of God be and still worship the same God? When we reach that day of judgment and they see Christ, will they recognize Him as our Lord and bow down before Him or reject Him as someone they don’t know? For what it is worth, that applies to everyone.
We know the path of salvation, but I won’t preclude God from acting as He sees fit. The path of salvation, however, is narrow, and I wouldn’t stop sharing God’s word with those groups.
That’s what I mean about distortion of Who God is. Can one truly worship God if their view of Him is extremely distorted, or are they worshiping a different God altogether?It's after they hear the doctrine and reject it that they reject Christ and worship an idol in his name.
They worship idols of their imagination. Only a precise definition of Christ is the true Christ.That’s what I mean about distortion of Who God is. Can one truly worship God if their view of Him is extremely distorted, or are they worshiping a different God altogether?
I’m not arguing what you are saying about them.They worship idols of their imagination. Only a precise definition of Christ is the true Christ.
I believe the early Creeds define Christianity and most today have drifted far away from them.I’m not arguing what you are saying about them.
ETA: I’d say that anyone outside of the ancient Nicene creed likely has a very distorted view of Christ, and not all who profess Christ actually worship Him. I’m also limiting my answers to the question at hand (can they be saved).
I agree that many groups have drifted far away.I believe the early Creeds define Christianity and most today have drifted far away from them.
Oneness Pentecostals are not in the same boat with LDS & JWs. The latter two do not acknowledge Jesus' divinity.
OnePens DO acknowledge His divinity. They just emphasize the "one" aspect of Trinity over their "three" aspect. I don't think that we need to totally get how "Trinity" works in order to get saved (or else we would all be in trouble).
Interesting question considering that it’s 100% the purview of God. He Tells us that all of His children will be taught directly by Him. When that happens you will understand things differently than you currently do.Oneness Pentecostals, LDS, and JW are major non-Trinitarian groups. Are there other significant non-Trinitarians? Can non-Trinitarians be saved?
No trinity = idol worship. = damnation.
Hey, to sum this up, if anyone believes that a Non-trinitarian can be saved he or she better read the works of Saint Athanasius the Apostolic, what would be the point of the Nicene creed if Non-Trinitarian heretics could be saved, Non-Trinitarians either fit into three camps as far as I know, the Modalist heretics that believe all persons of the Trinity are each other playing different roles so there’s only one Hypostasis or person of which the Onness Pentecostals fall into, and the Arians heretics that believe that Christ is an inferior created deity subject to the Father and a second weaker created god of which the Jehovah’s Witness and other similar groups fall into, and the Adoptionist heretics that Christ say that Christ was a man elevated to the status of an inferior deity and made the Son of God by the will of the Father rejecting that he was begotten of the Father with his divine Sonship being inherent to his Nature, many of the so called “Biblical (heretic) Unitarians” fall into this category of promoting Neo-Adoptionism. All of these contradict Orthodox Christian theology and are all Non-Christian groups, none will attain salvation in the slightest.Trying to summarize all the posts so far: It seems that only @Dave L and @Al Masihi don't think no-Trinitarians can be saved.
I like statements by @Charlie24 "It is my belief that only one doctrine must be believed to enter into the Kingdom of God. The misunderstanding of the Trinity does NOT doom one to hell. Unbelief in Jesus the Saviour is what will doom ones soul," and @hedrick "No Standardized Theological Achievement Test." It's not clear whether @SkyWriting meant the same thing or meant a more universalist understanding.
The distinction of OnePens noted by @Sabertooth is appreciated. @tampasteve added interesting info regarding INC and LLDM. Perhaps these belong in the Unitarian category that I failed to include in the OP? In the same category would be small groups like Christadelphians and World Wide Church of God before they changed their theology & name.
I have a particular problem with groups that consider themselves the only true Church of God. These would include JW, INC and LLDM.
This is why the Eastern Orthodox convened a very important synod in 1672. Among the decrees of that synod that strongly criticized Calvinism were the following statements:I believe the early Creeds define Christianity and most today have drifted far away from them.
I think a good question is "is it the same Jesus?"Oneness Pentecostals, LDS, and JW are major non-Trinitarian groups. Are there other significant non-Trinitarians? Can non-Trinitarians be saved?
You've named the major ones, but there are also the Unitarian Universalists, Swedenborgians, and Christadelphians among others. As was already mentioned by another poster, there was the old Worldwide Church of God which broke into a number of still-active splinters--United CofG, Living CofG, Philadelphia CofG and others.Oneness Pentecostals, LDS, and JW are major non-Trinitarian groups. Are there other significant non-Trinitarians? Can non-Trinitarians be saved?
Oneness Pentecostals, LDS, and JW are major non-Trinitarian groups. Are there other significant non-Trinitarians? Can non-Trinitarians be saved?
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