Can non-Trinitarians be saved?

[Saint Steven]

(23) Jesus continued, “You are from below; I am from above. You belong to this world; I do not.
(24) That is why I said that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I AM who I claim to be, you will die in your sins.”
(25) “Who are you?” they demanded. Jesus replied, “The one I have always claimed to be.
(26) I have much to say about you and much to condemn, but I won’t. For I say only what I have heard from the one who sent me, and he is completely truthful.”
(27) But they still didn’t understand that he was talking about his Father.
(28) So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man on the cross, then you will understand that I AM he. I do nothing on my own but say only what the Father taught me.
(29) And the one who sent me is with me—he has not deserted me. For I always do what pleases him.”
(30) Then many who heard him say these things believed in him.

We need to understand this as a corrective statement by Christ, not a statement of the conditions for salvation. Those who he was speaking to had rejected him. FOR THEM, there needed to be a reversal in this position, a repentance from it. FOR THEM, it was a barrier.

To claim that Trinitarian belief, or any other doctrine for that matter, is a qualification for salvation is not correct in my view. We come as we are with NOTHING but total dependence on God to restore our relationship with Him.

 

[1an]

We need to understand this as a corrective statement by Christ, not a statement of the conditions for salvation. Those who he was speaking to had rejected him. FOR THEM, there needed to be a reversal in this position, a repentance from it. FOR THEM, it was a barrier.

To claim that Trinitarian belief, or any other doctrine for that matter, is a qualification for salvation is not correct in my view. We come as we are with NOTHING but total dependence on God to restore our relationship with Him.

First paragraph: we need to believe in Jesus as you say.

Second paragraph: if we reject the Trinity, we reject Jesus and forfeit our salvation.

Added: we cannot believe in Jesus, without believing in the Trinity.

 

[Oberamagau]

Christ humbled himself while on earth and became a little lower than the angels Hebrews 2:9, but it is who He was before he came down from heaven John 6:38 that is important.

Neither of those verses establish a co-equal trinity. If Jesus and God the Father were the same - co-equal person, Jesus would not have said -

John 6:38 "For I am come down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me."

It's unreasonable to presume you can derive a co-equal trinity out of Hebrews 2"9.

"But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man."

 

[1an]

Neither of those verses establish a co-equal trinity. If Jesus and God the Father were the same - co-equal person, Jesus would not have said -

John 6:38 "For I am come down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me."

It's unreasonable to presume you can derive a co-equal trinity out of Hebrews 2"9.

"But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man."

That was not my intention. The Son and the Father are not the same person. Remember the old hymn? "God IN Three Persons." Do not forget, there is only One God.

 

[Oberamagau]

First paragraph: we need to believe in Jesus as you say.

Second paragraph: if we reject the Trinity, we reject Jesus and forfeit our salvation.

Added: we cannot believe in Jesus, without believing in the Trinity.

That's unreasonable and would like you to quote your proof text that rejecting a Trinitarian God indicates one is rejecting Jesus and therefore forfeiting their salvation. Jesus' own testimony proposes He's NOT equal to God the Father, and has never proposed he IS equal to the Father... - a typical Trinitarian misunderstanding of "I and the Father are one.?"

There are more reasons to reject the Trinity "the way that it's taught" than to accept it line hook and sinker. What's especially damaging to Christianity's image is when unbelievers see this kind of judgment passed from one believer to another.

I have found that most people who believe in the Trinity have never done an unbias study of it. Many don't know how or why it originated, or know the specifics of its teachings.

There's reason to believe that a Trinity i.e. - the believe that the man Jesus IS also God the Father and (another nameless) person of the "Holy Spirit" - at the same time, is counter productive to the work of a sinless sacrifice for mankind.

 

[Oberamagau]

That was not my intention. The Son and the Father are not the same person. Remember the old hymn? "God IN Three Persons." Do not forget, there is only One God.

I don't know what type of Trinitarian believer you are - "oneness Pentecostal maybe? Doesn't matter.

Read this statement from that page at Christianity.com.


"The fact that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinct Persons means, in other words, that the Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is not the Father. Jesus is God, but He is not the Father or the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God, but He is not the Son or the Father. They are different Persons, not three different ways of looking at God."

Then comes the condemnation of others -

"All Christians believe the doctrine of the Trinity. If you do not believe this—that is, if you have come to a settled conclusion that the doctrine of the Trinity is not true—you are not a Christian at all. You are in fact a heretic."

Same type of incoherent statement from another Trinitarian site...

"When we say these things we mean that the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, but they are not three gods but only one God. The Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Spirit, the Spirit is not the Father, but each is God individually and yet they are together the one true God of the Bible."

So what they are saying is the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God.

Then comes the absurdity.

The Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Spirit, the Spirit is not the Father.

The ironic thing is many Protestants who condemn millions of people over the Trinity doctrine, also condemns the same organization that devised it. Many today label Rome and Catholicism as the "harlot of Babylon" or Babylon - the 'beast', etc. Many even believe that the Pope would unite the world's religions in the last days. Put the Trinity in that mix.

 

[1an]

I don't know what type of Trinitarian believer you are - "oneness Pentecostal maybe? Doesn't matter.

Read this statement from that page at Christianity.com.


"The fact that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinct Persons means, in other words, that the Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is not the Father. Jesus is God, but He is not the Father or the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God, but He is not the Son or the Father. They are different Persons, not three different ways of looking at God."

Then comes the condemnation of others -

"All Christians believe the doctrine of the Trinity. If you do not believe this—that is, if you have come to a settled conclusion that the doctrine of the Trinity is not true—you are not a Christian at all. You are in fact a heretic."

Same type of incoherent statement from another Trinitarian site...

"When we say these things we mean that the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, but they are not three gods but only one God. The Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Spirit, the Spirit is not the Father, but each is God individually and yet they are together the one true God of the Bible."

So what they are saying is the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God.

Then comes the absurdity.

The Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Spirit, the Spirit is not the Father.

The ironic thing is many Protestants who condemn millions of people over the Trinity doctrine, also condemns the same organization that devised it. Many today label Rome and Catholicism as the "harlot of Babylon" or Babylon - the 'beast', etc. Many even believe that the Pope would unite the world's religions in the last days. Put the Trinity in that mix.

There is only One omnipresent God, and all they are saying is that when we accept Christ as our Saviour, the Holy Spirit dwells in the heart of the believer, the Father is the same spirit in heaven, and Jesus in whom dwelt the same Holy Spirit, was on earth. It has been made unnecessarily complicated by giving God in heaven, on earth, and in our heart, three different names and calling them persons, when in reality God is One omnipresent Spirit. I apologise on behalf of the early Church who messed up, probably in the council of Nicea.

 

[Saint Steven]

First paragraph: we need to believe in Jesus as you say.

Second paragraph: if we reject the Trinity, we reject Jesus and forfeit our salvation.

Added: we cannot believe in Jesus, without believing in the Trinity.

Forfeit our salvation?
Now we are on a different subject. You have introduced a LOSS of salvation due to doctrine. I don't agree with that either. Who's doctrine do we use as a standard? And then once again, the problem of measuring such things. Bad idea.

Saint Steven said: ↑
We need to understand this as a corrective statement by Christ, not a statement of the conditions for salvation. Those who he was speaking to had rejected him. FOR THEM, there needed to be a reversal in this position, a repentance from it. FOR THEM, it was a barrier.

To claim that Trinitarian belief, or any other doctrine for that matter, is a qualification for salvation is not correct in my view. We come as we are with NOTHING but total dependence on God to restore our relationship with Him.

 

[1an]

Forfeit our salvation?
Now we are on a different subject. You have introduced a LOSS of salvation due to doctrine. I don't agree with that either. Who's doctrine do we use as a standard? And then once again, the problem of measuring such things. Bad idea.

Saint Steven said: ↑
We need to understand this as a corrective statement by Christ, not a statement of the conditions for salvation. Those who he was speaking to had rejected him. FOR THEM, there needed to be a reversal in this position, a repentance from it. FOR THEM, it was a barrier.

To claim that Trinitarian belief, or any other doctrine for that matter, is a qualification for salvation is not correct in my view. We come as we are with NOTHING but total dependence on God to restore our relationship with Him.

1. Jesus is the Saviour.

2. Jesus is the second person of the Trinity.

3. Reject the Trinity and you reject the Saviour who said in John 8:24, "I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.”
.

 

[ewq1938]

1. Jesus is the Saviour.

2. Jesus is the second person of the Trinity.

3. Reject the Trinity and you reject the Saviour who said in John 8:24, "I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.”
.

That is about rejecting Christ as Messiah not as God the Son. Jesus is God the Son but I haven't seen any scripture that says one must understand he is God to be saved.

 

[1an]

That is about rejecting Christ as Messiah not as God the Son. Jesus is God the Son but I haven't seen any scripture that says one must understand he is God to be saved.

"unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.”

 

[Saint Steven]

1. Jesus is the Saviour.

2. Jesus is the second person of the Trinity.

3. Reject the Trinity and you reject the Saviour who said in John 8:24, "I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.”
.

Your "proof-text" doesn't say anything about the Trinity.

No one is saved by doctrine. Only God can save.

 

[ewq1938]

"unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.”

I already commented that this is regarding him being the Messiah.

Joh 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
Joh 8:29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

Clarke:

John 8:28
When ye have lifted up - When ye have crucified me, and thus filled up the measure of your iniquities, ye shall know that I am the Christ, by the signs that shall follow; and ye shall know that what I spoke is true, by the judgments that shall follow. To be lifted up, is a common mode of expression, among the Jewish writers, for to die, or to be killed.

 

[1an]

Your "proof-text" doesn't say anything about the Trinity.

No one is saved by doctrine. Only God can save.

Jesus is God.

For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. (Isaiah 9:6)
.

 

[Saint Steven]

Jesus is God.

For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. (Isaiah 9:6)
.

No one is saved by doctrine.

There can be more than one position on a doctrine. How do you decide which one saves?

 

[Oberamagau]

1. Jesus is the Saviour.

2. Jesus is the second person of the Trinity.

3. Reject the Trinity and you reject the Saviour who said in John 8:24, "I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.”
.

I fully reject the man-made doctrine of trinity. I fully accept that you don't know what Christ meant when he said, "for unless you believe that I am (he) you will die in your sins."

 

[1an]

No one is saved by doctrine.

There can be more than one position on a doctrine. How do you decide which one saves?

See ewq1938 signature:

Jesus is God because he, himself, says he is God: "I will be his God"- Rev 21:7
Jesus is God because the OT says Israel's Rock was God and Christ was that same Rock
Ps 78:35, 1 Cor 10:4

 

[1an]

I fully reject the man-made doctrine of trinity. I fully accept that you don't know what Christ meant when he said, "for unless you believe that I am (he) you will die in your sins."

Then I may as well put you on ignore. Bye.

 

[Oberamagau]

No one is saved by doctrine.

There can be more than one position on a doctrine. How do you decide which one saves?

ALSO...
There are very few damnable doctrines and the Trinity isn't one of them.

 

[Oberamagau]

Then I may as well put you on ignore. Bye.

Can't cope? Here you are condemning non-trinitarians and then when someone challenges your interpretation of scripture you cop out.

Go ahead, check out what Jesus meant when he says, "I am."