Can non-Trinitarians be saved?

[1an]

I said anyone can see it in scripture. If they are in a coma, obviously they cannot even see scripture.

Neither will they have sinned.

 

[1an]

I'm not making the claim that intellectual knowledge saves. There is a great difference between heresy and intellectual ignorance.

A child knows its Father.

 

[Der Alte]

So the severely autistic and the retards and the infants all burn?

There were numerous gentiles that converted to Christianity that had no idea what the Jews had been discussing for centuries. Were they all unsaved then?

Romans 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Romans 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

 

[Dave L]

Neither will they have sinned.

Everyone dies because the are sinful in Adam. Even babies in the womb. The wages of sin is death.

 

[Dave L]

Why would a misunderstanding on the part of the seeker disqualify them from hearing Jesus' voice? For that matter, are you claiming you can "hear" Jesus' voice? Does Jesus reject seekers based on a misunderstandings of who exactly he is? It seems that a child-like faith would likely have some of the "doctrine" incorrect. Yet Jesus says they are the type he is looking for. I am less and less likely to think that doctrine matters at all. There seems to be no consensus anyway. Is everyone lost? (due to questionable doctrine)

Saint Steven said: ↑
Does salvation depend on a correct definition of Christ?
That would be up to us. Thus saved by "correct" doctrine? (whatever that means)

Saint Steven said: ↑
I don't know of any nontrinitarians that deny the deity of Christ. Typically, the person of the Holy Spirit is the one left out by them. As I understand it.

“He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.” Matthew 16:15–17 (KJV 1900)
Unless born again, all will choose a false Christ idol and hate the true Christ when given the details.

 

[Saint Steven]

“He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.” Matthew 16:15–17 (KJV 1900)
Unless born again, all will choose a false Christ idol and hate the true Christ when given the details.

Your rebuttal does more to support my point than your own.
Was Peter the ONLY one in Israel with the "correct" doctrine? Everyone else who followed Jesus was following a "false" Christ (due to their lack of understanding), therefore hating the "true" Christ?

Can Jesus only save those whose doctrine agrees with yours?

Saint Steven said: ↑
Why would a misunderstanding on the part of the seeker disqualify them from hearing Jesus' voice? For that matter, are you claiming you can "hear" Jesus' voice? Does Jesus reject seekers based on a misunderstandings of who exactly he is? It seems that a child-like faith would likely have some of the "doctrine" incorrect. Yet Jesus says they are the type he is looking for. I am less and less likely to think that doctrine matters at all. There seems to be no consensus anyway. Is everyone lost? (due to questionable doctrine)

 

[Dave L]

Your rebuttal does more to support my point than your own.
Was Peter the ONLY one in Israel with the "correct" doctrine? Everyone else who followed Jesus was following a "false" Christ (due to their lack of understanding), therefore hating the "true" Christ?

Can Jesus only save those whose doctrine agrees with yours?

Saint Steven said: ↑
Why would a misunderstanding on the part of the seeker disqualify them from hearing Jesus' voice? For that matter, are you claiming you can "hear" Jesus' voice? Does Jesus reject seekers based on a misunderstandings of who exactly he is? It seems that a child-like faith would likely have some of the "doctrine" incorrect. Yet Jesus says they are the type he is looking for. I am less and less likely to think that doctrine matters at all. There seems to be no consensus anyway. Is everyone lost? (due to questionable doctrine)

Is a 50$ brand new Rolex a Rolex? Is a non-trinitarian Jesus really Jesus?

 

[Saint Steven]

Is a 50$ brand new Rolex a Rolex? Is a non-trinitarian Jesus really Jesus?

Was Jesus not really Jesus until he revealed himself to those on the road to Emmaus?

Obviously (like your $50.00 new Rolex), there are false Christs. Jesus warned us about them. But to assign this anomaly to everyone but those few in your own church is WAY overboard. ("us" versus "them" mentality)

Jesus is not prevented from having a saving relationship with those who have questionable doctrine. I have heard testimonies of Muslims who are following Jesus. The Islamic view of Jesus has some obvious doctrinal issues. Including denying his deity.

 

[1an]

Everyone dies because the are sinful in Adam. Even babies in the womb. The wages of sin is death.

We have a sinful nature granted, but we are Judged on our own sins, not Adam's sins. Neither am I judged on your sins or you mine. Now then, you show me a baby who has lied, murdered, committed adultly, etc, etc.

 

[Saint Steven]

We have a sinful nature granted, but we are Judged on our own sins, not Adam's sins. Neither am I judged on your sins or you mine. Now then, you show me a baby who has lied, murdered, committed adultly, etc, etc.

I agree.
I have heard it explained that Jesus did not die to pay the penalty of our sins (plural), but rather to pay the consequence of our sin (singular), which is death.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[1an]

I agree.
I have heard it explained that Jesus did not die to pay the penalty of our sins (plural), but rather to pay the consequence of our sin (singular), which is death.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

I do not know if that is relevant for babies? But I agree that it is not long before a baby disobeys its mother. How long before they sin against God, I'm not sure.

 

[Saint Steven]

I do not know if that is relevant for babies? But I agree that it is not long before a baby disobeys its mother. How long before they sin against God, I'm not sure.

Sure it is. IMHO (unless I misunderstand you)
When was the price paid for the consequence of sin? (on the cross)
It's not about what we have done, or will do; it's about what Jesus has already done.

Saint Steven said: ↑
I agree.
I have heard it explained that Jesus did not die to pay the penalty of our sins (plural), but rather to pay the consequence of our sin (singular), which is death.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

 

[1an]

Sure it is. IMHO (unless I misunderstand you)
When was the price paid for the consequence of sin? (on the cross)
It's not about what we have done, or will do; it's about what Jesus has already done.

Saint Steven said: ↑
I agree.
I have heard it explained that Jesus did not die to pay the penalty of our sins (plural), but rather to pay the consequence of our sin (singular), which is death.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Jesus conquered death and Satan, that is true, but even so we have to follow Jesus all the days of our life.

 

[Saint Steven]

Jesus conquered death and Satan, that is true, but even so we have to follow Jesus all the days of our life.

Uh oh, sounds like we are in BIG trouble.
What happens if we didn't follow Jesus ALL the days of our life?
If our salvation depends on us... we are all lost. Hopefully that's not what you meant.

 

[1an]

Uh oh, sounds like we are in BIG trouble.
What happens if we didn't follow Jesus ALL the days of our life?
If our salvation depends on us... we are all lost. Hopefully that's not what you meant.

That is what I DO mean. People can and do backslide, from which there is no redemption. There are many scriptures that tell us so. If you think you can live in the world, then you ain't a Saint.

 

[Francis Drake]

That is what I DO mean. People can and do backslide, from which there is no redemption. There are many scriptures that tell us so. If you think you can live in the world, then you ain't a Saint.

So are you claiming to have never sinned since becoming a Christian?

 

[1an]

So are you claiming to have never sinned since becoming a Christian?

I did not say that. Please do not put words into my mouth I did not say, or I shall put you on ignore. I used to be very patient, but not any more.

What we need to do is to follow Jesus all the days of our life.

 

[Francis Drake]

I did not say that. Please do not put words into my mouth I did not say, or I shall put you on ignore. I used to be very patient, but not any more.

What we need to do is to follow Jesus all the days of our life.​

What happened to "Love is patient", or did you skip that bit. Your virtue is obviously slipping my friend.

But there's really no need to get all uppity, in reading your post my question was a entirely relevant.
Here is what you said.-

That is what I DO mean.
People can and do backslide, from which there is no redemption. There are many scriptures that tell us so. If you think you can live in the world, then you ain't a Saint.

There you go, "People can and do backslide, from which there is no redemption"
The implication here is that others backslide, but you haven't because you are still here standing for Christ.
Backsliding is just a form of sinfulness and doesn't even appear in the various scriptural lists.
So to ask again, have you ever backslidden?
I ask because like most people, I have at times, but that never stopped my redemption because that was determined by Jesus not me.

And looking at your other point,

If you think you can live in the world, then you ain't a Saint​

.​

If asked what was the most worldly church in the NT, most would probably point to Corinth.
Paul unmasks their worldly behaviour, fornication, drunkenness etc.
But look at his greetings to that worldly church.
1Cor1v2To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
As you can see, he still addresses them as saints and as sanctified. That's because , unlike in the Catholic church where it is bestowed decades after you die, sainthood comes on us when we are sanctified by the blood of the lamb, not by our works.

 

[Dave L]

We have a sinful nature granted, but we are Judged on our own sins, not Adam's sins. Neither am I judged on your sins or you mine. Now then, you show me a baby who has lied, murdered, committed adultly, etc, etc.

Why do babies die if not for sin?

 

[Dave L]

Was Jesus not really Jesus until he revealed himself to those on the road to Emmaus?

Obviously (like your $50.00 new Rolex), there are false Christs. Jesus warned us about them. But to assign this anomaly to everyone but those few in your own church is WAY overboard. ("us" versus "them" mentality)

Jesus is not prevented from having a saving relationship with those who have questionable doctrine. I have heard testimonies of Muslims who are following Jesus. The Islamic view of Jesus has some obvious doctrinal issues. Including denying his deity.

Jesus is the truth. False Christs are not.