Can natural or castrated eunuchs get married?

[Apex]

Because Jesus was speaking to people of a particular time and culture and drawing from those cultural experiences. Jesus didn't say, one way or the other, whether a male without a penis can or can't marry; you are reading into this passage what simply isn't there.

-CryptoLutheran

Perhaps it might be presumptuous to extrapolate the implications of the analogy outside of the cultural context of Jesus' time, but it does seem odd that Jesus would be willing to base an analogy on something theologically incorrect. Especially since Jesus corrected many cultural misunderstandings about marriage and divorce given the chance in other settings. Thanks for your imput.

 

[Apex]

Different topic, and one that, AFAIK, isn't permitted to be debated anywhere on this site.

-CryptoLutheran

Only open support for homosexual marriage is against the rules. Unless that was what you were going to do, you can respond to my question.

 

[Faith Alone 1 Cor 15:1-4]

Losing penis does not make you woman , you have DNA in every part of your body telling you that you are still a man , same as losing hand or leg , you don't become alien by losing leg but you are still who you are .

 

[bbbbbbb]

In light of the fact that marriage is defined by a sexual relationship a eunuch (male or female) cannot enter into that form of human relationship. They might have a roommate, as long as there was no sexual content to the relationship, but it would only be a friendship, not a marriage.

I have a close friend who married a woman who, on their wedding night, informed him very directly that she refused to have sexual intercourse with him. They have been "married" for over forty years now, living as roommates. IMO he ought to have had the marriage annulled immediately, but he chose to consider his marriage vows as inviolable.

 

[Faith Alone 1 Cor 15:1-4]

In light of the fact that marriage is defined by a sexual relationship a eunuch (male or female) cannot enter into that form of human relationship. They might have a roommate, as long as there was no sexual content to the relationship, but it would only be a friendship, not a marriage.

I have a close friend who married a woman who, on their wedding night, informed him very directly that she refused to have sexual intercourse with him. They have been "married" for over forty years now, living as roommates. IMO he ought to have had the marriage annulled immediately, but he chose to consider his marriage vows as inviolable.

That is wrong with Bible teaching , when you became maried , your body belongs to wife and her body to you , if you want her she has to agree if she want you , you have to agree (1 Cor 7:4)

 

[bbbbbbb]

That is wrong with Bible teaching , when you became maried , your body belongs to wife and her body to you , if you want her she has to agree if she want you , you have to agree (1 Cor 7:4)

If one partner in a marriage enters into marriage, knowingly lying to the other, then there is no marriage.

For example, if a person is already married and decides to marry another spouse, then the second marriage is adultery, pure and simple. In the same way, a eunuch cannot honestly enter into marriage because he or she is incapable of fulfilling the marital relationship.

 

[Apex]

Losing penis does not make you woman , you have DNA in every part of your body telling you that you are still a man , same as losing hand or leg , you don't become alien by losing leg but you are still who you are .

Many people would consider those with sex chromosomal abnormalities "natural" eunuchs - which is a genetic issue.

Humans are born with 46 chromosomes in 23 pairs. The X and Y chromosomes determine a person’s sex. Most women are 46XX and most men are 46XY. Research suggests, however, that in a few births per thousand some individuals will be born with a single sex chromosome (45X or 45Y) (sex monosomies) and some with three or more sex chromosomes (47XXX, 47XYY or 47XXY, etc.) (sex polysomies). In addition, some males are born 46XX due to the translocation of a tiny section of the sex determining region of the Y chromosome. Similarly some females are also born 46XY due to mutations in the Y chromosome. Clearly, there are not only females who are XX and males who are XY, but rather, there is a range of chromosome complements, hormone balances, and phenotypic variations that determine sex.

From World Heath Organization.

So, can only 46XX females and 46XY males marry? I ask because people with three X chromosomes (47XXX) experience normal development of "female" sexual traits and are fertile. How far do you take this genetics argument?

 

[Apex]

In light of the fact that marriage is defined by a sexual relationship a eunuch (male or female) cannot enter into that form of human relationship. They might have a roommate, as long as there was no sexual content to the relationship, but it would only be a friendship, not a marriage.

I disagree that marriage is defined as a "sexual relationship". It was never seen as such historically and it is never described as such in Scripture. Marriage in the ancient Near East was contractual, involving payments, agreed stipulations, and penalties. If either partner broke the stipulations of the contract, the innocent partner could opt for a divorce and keep the dowry. Exact parallels to these practices are found in the Pentateuch.

Marriage is called a "covenant" throughout the Pentateuch and the rest of the Old Testament. Proverbs 2:17 speaks about the adulterous wife who "ignored the covenant made before God," and Malachi says that one of the witnesses of any "marriage covenant" is God himself (Malachi 2:14). Ezekiel employs a vivid picture of God marrying the nation of Judah, in which he frequently referred to their marriage covenant (Ezekiel 16:8, 59-62).

The concept of covenant is used throughout the ancient Near East for treaty covenants, covenants for hiring labor, and many other types of agreements including marriage. Although the word for covenant is different in different languages, the same concept pervades the societies surrounding Israel. This concept was also later adopted by the Greco-Roman culture of the first century A.D. A covenant was cemented not only by blessings and curses but also by a concept of mutual concern and loyalty, which was often expressed as "love" even in treaty covenants. The similarity of language used for treaty covenants and marriage covenants and for other agreements between two parties is also found in many ancient Near Eastern sources. The phrase "marriage covenant" was the constant and normative phrase used to describe the legal framework of marriage in the Old Testament and in its surrounding cultures. Marriage covenants in the rest of the ancient Near East help us to understand the meaning of this phrase in the Old Testament.

The primary meaning of covenant was an agreement between two parties that was mutually binding. Covenants could be made, kept, and broken. Covenants were implemented by document or by a ceremony. They had stipulation agreed to by both parties, and sanctions that came into force when a stipulation was broken.

Marriage is a contract, not a sexual relationship. What if a husband become impotent? Does he cease to be a husband because the sexual aspect of his relationship with his wife no longer exists?

 

[Jig]

So, only 46XX females and 46XY males can marry?

This is an excellent question. In fact, it is theologically mind-numbing to think about. The WHO statistics suggest that up to two dozen individuals in a thousand have some kind of genetic condition that affects their sexual biology. This is not a small population when you consider the entire world. This number could be as high as 180 million people! That's more than double the population of Germany. So, this is an important question that deserves an answer.

However, this forces a redefining of what traditional marriage is on a genetic level. We must now define what a 'male' is and what a 'female' is genetically. This goes beyond what is between their legs. You used the example of a XXX female (Triple X syndrome - Wikipedia) - these people are not 46XX females, so are they still female? If so, are they female enough to get married to a male? Most don't even know they have the syndrome!

I hope someone else chimes in....this is very interesting.

 

[Jig]

On a related topic, do you believe intersex persons can get married? It seems fair to include hermaphrodites as natural born eunuchs.

I agree. Intersex people are natural eunuchs. I don't think they can marry, but this is another hard question. Hermaphrodite marriage is partly "heterosexual" and partly "homosexual".

I think the site admins wouldn't know what to do if someone started promoting this type of marriage!

 

[Apex]

This is an excellent question. In fact, it is theologically mind-numbing to think about. The WHO statistics suggest that up to two dozen individuals in a thousand have some kind of genetic condition that affects their sexual biology. This is not a small population when you consider the entire world. This number could be as high as 180 million people! That's more than double the population of Germany. So, this is an important question that deserves an answer.

However, this forces a redefining of what traditional marriage is on a genetic level. We must now define what a 'male' is and what a 'female' is genetically. This goes beyond what is between their legs. You used the example of a XXX female (Triple X syndrome - Wikipedia) - these people are not 46XX females, so are they still female? If so, are they female enough to get married to a male? Most don't even know they have the syndrome!

I hope someone else chimes in....this is very interesting.

Also, the ancient world would not have been able to do genetic testing. It would have been impossible to diagnose and confirm a triple X syndrome "female".

So, can only 46XX females and 46XY males marry? I'm leaning towards a more inclusive answer.

 

[SAAchristian757]

Now, especially with reference to Matthew 19:11-12, can a natural or castrated eunuch get married? Another way of wording this question could be, can a person who has a genetic or unintended genital defect get married?

I think this is about people taking a vow of celibacy. Not about people being forced to remain single

 

[Kyrilllos el Antony]

Fun fact: if a man castrates himself, he is inelligible to serve as a Presbyter under Canon I of the Council of Nicea, "for he is a self-murderer."

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

yes, a person with genital deformities or 'eunuch' can get married.

 

[Lulav]

Fun fact: if a man castrates himself, he is inelligible to serve as a Presbyter under Canon I of the Council of Nicea, "for he is a self-murderer."

Not to mention of generations that could come.