Can morality exist without God cont..

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · Jun 11, 2016

Dave Ellis said:
The master who has selected her for himself? What do you think he intends on doing with her?

It specifically says to be his servant nothing more. I would expect the master to obey the laws about adultery thus implying that no sexual actions would take place. I could go into another word study with you to tell you what it actually mean if you want? If you want me to save you the trouble just trust me when I say it is not intended to be a "sex servant". I recommend reading more into the original Hebrew rather than the (ACWSV) aka skeptics bible found on the web.

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Dave Ellis · Jun 11, 2016

jason_delisle said:
It specifically says to be his servant nothing more. I would expect the master to obey the laws about adultery thus implying that no sexual actions would take place. I could go into another word study with you to tell you what it actually mean if you want? If you want me to save you the trouble just trust me when I say it is not intended to be a "sex servant". I recommend reading more into the original Hebrew rather than the (ACWSV) aka skeptics bible found on the web.

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And how about if he "betrothes" his slave to his son? (King James translation)

Some translations specifically say if someone marries a slave woman he must not deprive her of sexual intimacy. I believe the new living translation actually uses the words "sexual intimacy". It also says he can't deny his first wife if he takes another wife... Shall we get into polygamy as well?

You're being obtuse, you know what those verses mean.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · Jun 11, 2016

Dave Ellis said:
And how about if he "betrothes" his slave to his son? (King James translation)

Well, now you are talking about prearranged marriages which is not at all the same as a "sex slave". It also clearly states that if a master allows his son to marry a slave, that woman no longer is a slave but rather a part of the family with all the freedoms and privileges that go with it.

Btw...I don't recommend the KJV because there are a lot of mistranslations in it. The whole "Thou shalt not kill" vs "do not murder" is one example.

Dave Ellis said:
Some translations specifically say if someone marries a slave woman he must not deprive her of sexual intimacy. I believe the new living translation actually uses the words "sexual intimacy". It also says he can't deny his first wife if he takes another wife... Shall we get into polygamy as well?

You're being obtuse, you know what those verses mean.

Scripture reference please.

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(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · Jun 11, 2016

Dave Ellis said:
The master who has selected her for himself? What do you think he intends on doing with her?

Also, the scripture is not talking about slaves at all. It is talking about servants.

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SteveB28 · Jun 11, 2016

jason_delisle said:
Also, the scripture is not talking about slaves at all. It is talking about servants.

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Ha, ha, ha.........what do you think a 'servant' was in Biblical times? The word 'slave' comes from a reference to Slavic people and is only a relatively new (medieval ) expression.

Servants were enslaved people.

But do keep on wriggling. It's actually amusing to watch!

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · Jun 11, 2016

SteveB28 said:
Ha, ha, ha.........what do you think a 'servant' was in Biblical times? The word 'slave' comes from a reference to Slavic people and is only a relatively new (medieval ) expression.

Servants were enslaved people.

But do keep on wriggling. It's actually amusing to watch!

And you sir, cannot explain why it would make sense that a slave would go free if a master so much as breaks a tooth or damages an eye but the master would get off Scott free if he beats the slave so hard that the slave dies in a couple days. Good job on your reasoning and logic. But just so you are educated on the subject of the verse in question.

The specific word used for "servant" in exodus 21:7 was אָמָה meaning (maid or concubine) having nothing to do with the slavery you assume.

SteveB28 · Jun 11, 2016

jason_delisle said:
And you sir, cannot explain why it would make sense that a slave would go free if a master so much as breaks a tooth or damages an eye but the master would get off Scott free if he beats the slave so hard that the slave dies in a couple days. Good job on your reasoning and logic. But just so you are educated on the subject of the verse in question.

The specific word used for "servant" in exodus 21:7 was אָמָה meaning (maid or concubine) having nothing to do with the slavery you assume.

Oh my, this just keeps getting better.....!

Yes, that Hebrew word is 'amah'.......and guess what it's translation is?

Go on, guess......!

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · Jun 11, 2016

SteveB28 said:
Ha, ha, ha.........what do you think a 'servant' was in Biblical times? The word 'slave' comes from a reference to Slavic people and is only a relatively new (medieval ) expression.

Servants were enslaved people.

But do keep on wriggling. It's actually amusing to watch!

Just out of curiosity, did you ever figure out yet that anytime you put a scripture verse in a post that it automatically creates a hyperlink to the KJV? Just wondering since you were so quick to question my integrity because of it. [emoji4]

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SteveB28 · Jun 11, 2016

jason_delisle said:
Just out of curiosity, did you ever figure out yet that anytime you put a scripture verse in a post that it automatically creates a hyperlink to the KJV? Just wondering since you were so quick to question my integrity because of it. [emoji4]

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I would suggest that the responsibility is entirely YOURS to ensure that DIRECT QUOTES are accurate.

Oh sorry, that's probably too much like 'taking you to school'....

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · Jun 11, 2016

SteveB28 said:
I would suggest that the responsibility is entirely YOURS to ensure that DIRECT QUOTES are accurate.

Oh sorry, that's probably too much like 'taking you to school'....

Oh, and your "if a slave dies after a day or two" quote was accurate? Priceless. If you look at my quote that I clearly referenced from the NIV you would see that it is an exact quote from the NIV and not a perverted twist like you provided. So please spare the lecture.

Ed1wolf · Jun 11, 2016

SteveB28 said:
ed: No, actually contrary to popular belief even among Christians the bible does not allow involuntary slavery of foreigners even under the Old Covenant of the Hebrew theocracy except POWs. Read Deut. 25:17 and Exodus 22:21-24. And Leviticus 19:33-34 where they are commanded to treat strangers and foreigners just like fellow Hebrews.

sb: Neither of those verses deals with slavery. You're grasping at straws.

They deal with how foreigners are to be treated and plainly no one wants to be involuntarily enslaved so Lev: 19:33-34 plainly teaches the golden rule for foreigners dwelling in Israel, therefore it would be a violation of God's law to enslave them.

ed:Leviticus 25:47.

sb: That one is about a HEBREW enslaved to a FOREIGNER, not the other way round! Read your Bible!

It naturally follows that if a Hebrew could enslave themselves to a foreigner then a foreigner could enslave themselves to a Hebrew. Especially since they knew how humane Hebrew laws regarding slaves were compared to surrounding nations. Such as capital punishment for murdering a slave. And the Hebrew was commanded to love the stranger as himself so if the stranger is having a tough time taking care of himself and his family, becoming a servant to a Hebrew who was doing well is a very logical thing to do. This type of slavery, really indentured servitude, was an ancient form of welfare.

Ed1wolf · Jun 11, 2016

Dave Ellis said:
That's nonsense, even by the scriptures. It clearly says you may buy slaves from the pagan nations around you, and those slaves become your permanent property, which may be passed down through the generations

Yes, many of them moved into Israel so a Hebrew may buy some of them that voluntarily sold themselves to the Hebrews during bad economic times. Plainly they could not oppress them which would plainly include enslaving them involuntarily as taught in Exodus 22:21-24. They only became permanent if they went thru that procedure that was previously quoted by Steve. Otherwise they were freed in the year of Jubilee just like the Hebrews, Leviticus 25:9-10.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · Jun 12, 2016

SteveB28 said:
Oh my, this just keeps getting better.....!

Yes, that Hebrew word is 'amah'.......and guess what it's translation is?

Go on, guess......!

Strongs Hebrew H519 אָמָה was used to describe a handmaid (22x), maidservant (19x), maid (8x), bondwoman (4x), bondmaids (2x). Specifically "maidservant" in (Exodus 20:7) not a slave. Is there anything else I can help you with? Perhaps a lesson on hermeneutics?

[emoji4]
More info for you.
†אָמָה S TWOT GK n.f. maid, handmaid (Ph. אמת, Arabic أَمَةٌ (ʾamatun), Sab. אמת in n.pr. Sab.Denkm., Aramaic

SteveB28 · Jun 12, 2016

jason_delisle said:
Oh, and your "if a slave dies after a day or two" quote was accurate? Priceless. If you look at my quote that I clearly referenced from the NIV you would see that it is an exact quote from the NIV and not a perverted twist like you provided. So please spare the lecture.

A perverted twist? Have you ever actually researched all of the various translations and counted how many match the one I quoted? I gave you about 5 or 6.....there are about twenty more!

For goodness sake, stop ducking and diving and face some truth.....you are trying to defend the indefensible!

SteveB28 · Jun 12, 2016

jason_delisle said:
Strongs Hebrew H519 אָמָה was used to describe a handmaid (22x), maidservant (19x), maid (8x), bondwoman (4x), bondmaids (2x). Specifically "maidservant" in (Exodus 20:7) not a slave. Is there anything else I can help you with? Perhaps a lesson on hermeneutics?

[emoji4]
More info for you.
†אָמָה S TWOT GK n.f. maid, handmaid (Ph. אמת, Arabic أَمَةٌ (ʾamatun), Sab. אמת in n.pr. Sab.Denkm., Aramaic

Oh, you prefer Strong's do you? Perhaps you just overlooked this then....

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
handmaid, bondwoman, maidservant
Apparently a primitive word; a maid-servant or female slave -- (hand-)bondmaid(-woman), maid(-servant).

Oh dear.....did you really think I wouldn't check?

We are quite familiar with you folk and your quotations......

Dave Ellis · Jun 12, 2016

jason_delisle said:
Well, now you are talking about prearranged marriages which is not at all the same as a "sex slave". It also clearly states that if a master allows his son to marry a slave, that woman no longer is a slave but rather a part of the family with all the freedoms and privileges that go with it.

Btw...I don't recommend the KJV because there are a lot of mistranslations in it. The whole "Thou shalt not kill" vs "do not murder" is one example.

Can you please explain the difference between a sex slave, and a wife you bought from someone, who was very likely married to you against her will, and you can have sex with whenever you want regardless of her will?

The only difference I can see between the two is a forced marriage which the woman has no say in.

Is that your idea of morality?

Dave Ellis · Jun 12, 2016

Ed1wolf said:
Yes, many of them moved into Israel so a Hebrew may buy some of them that voluntarily sold themselves to the Hebrews during bad economic times. Plainly they could not oppress them which would plainly include enslaving them involuntarily as taught in Exodus 22:21-24. They only became permanent if they went thru that procedure that was previously quoted by Steve. Otherwise they were freed in the year of Jubilee just like the Hebrews, Leviticus 25:9-10.

It says you can buy slaves from the pagan nations around you.

It does not say people willingly decided it would be a good idea to take a long stroll into Judea just to enslave themselves for life. That's ridiculous.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · Jun 12, 2016

SteveB28 said:
Oh, you prefer Strong's do you? Perhaps you just overlooked this then....

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
handmaid, bondwoman, maidservant
Apparently a primitive word; a maid-servant or female slave -- (hand-)bondmaid(-woman), maid(-servant).

Oh dear.....did you really think I wouldn't check?

We are quite familiar with you folk and your quotations......

Yes, can be used to describe both a maidservant or female slave. However if you notice that on the different contexts that I showed you (x19) for example? It says that the context of "maid servant" was used 19 times in the bible. On the other source that I use (logos bible software) if you click on that context, it lists every verse that context was used. Unfortunately for you my friend, the context of "maidservant " is used for exodus 20:7. Your attack on my integrity has failed just like your "hyperlink" attack. Oh yeah, if you go back to your post with the 20 something quotes, click on all thy hyperlinks. They all go to the KJV regardless of the translation you quoted.
"...first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye." (Matthew 7:5) NIV (trust me...it's the NIV but the hyperlink that automatically is generated goes to the KJV. [emoji4]

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · Jun 12, 2016

Dave Ellis said:
Can you please explain the difference between a sex slave, and a wife you bought from someone, who was very likely married to you against her will, and you can have sex with whenever you want regardless of her will?

The only difference I can see between the two is a forced marriage which the woman has no say in.

Is that your idea of morality?

In this scripture, the literal context from the original Hebrew was maidservant. The scripture is saying that if a man sells her daughter to be a maid, if the master likes her, she can be his personal house keeper.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · Jun 12, 2016

Dave Ellis said:
It says you can buy slaves from the pagan nations around you.

It does not say people willingly decided it would be a good idea to take a long stroll into Judea just to enslave themselves for life. That's ridiculous.

Starting a new line of questioning. Would you call it immoral for a homeless man to go hungry on the street?

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Can morality exist without God cont..

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