• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Can Intelligent Design be a Logical & Rational Answer?

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,593
Northern Ohio
✟314,607.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
You make a lot of claims
The Bible makes lots of claims. For example we read in 2Timothy3:13 "evil people and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived."
 
Upvote 0

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,593
Northern Ohio
✟314,607.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
It also claims that slaughtering fetuses is OK. Hosea 13:16.
Not at all. The Bible claims that the wages of sin is death. God does not in anyway encourage people to sin. In fact He encourages us to choose life, health, blessings and prosperity. Still people have free will and they can choose death, sickness, poverty and the curse if that is the choice they want to make. Death is actually the easy choice and that is why so many people are going to perish. Life is the more difficult way. For example if you want good health you have to eat right, exercise and learn how to control your stress. Not everyone wants to take good care of themselves so they can be healthy. Still that is a choice we can all make. Just like if people want to prosper that may involve hard work and getting a good education. For some people that is more effort then it is worth. 2/3 of the people in american choose NOT to get a college education.

33"A little sleep, a little slumber, A little folding of the hands to rest," 34 Then your poverty will come as a robber And your want like an armed man proverbs 24
 
Upvote 0

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,593
Northern Ohio
✟314,607.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Why employ bible verses after you've boasted of extreme understanding of evolution via a biology degree?

Sort of undercuts your whole argument.
I really do not know what you are talking about. You seem to love to quote people out of context. Or twist their words.
 
Upvote 0

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,593
Northern Ohio
✟314,607.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I thought you said you knew all about evolution, yet here you are claiming that Darwin came up with evolution to counter Paley.

I call foul!
Again you twist peoples words to try and come up with a straw-man argument. Paley lived in the 1700's, he died in 1805. Darwin published his book in 1859. Clearly Paley and his argument came first. Darwin's grandfather Erasmus Darwin, was alive at the time of Paley and he was the one to actually argue with Paley himself. Charles just added to his grandfathers argument. A argument that promotes a godless agenda that has been around for a very long time going back to the Greeks. A discussion that we see with Paul in the Bible. Paul use to go to Mars Hill when he was in Athens so that he could preach his sermon and present his beliefs.

25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie,and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator, who is forever worthy of praise! Amen. Romans 1:25

Today we have people like Frances Collins that is taking a stand for the truth.
 
Upvote 0

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,593
Northern Ohio
✟314,607.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Actually, 'Darwinism', as such, was based on a great deal of evidence.
When it was merged with population genetics, even MORE evidence supported the basic premises of evolution.
No one argues with 101 evolution, and it can be well supported in a court of law. The problem is the conclusions they try to draw from the known evidence. They take truth and error and mix them together. They try to use evidence for micro evolution and apply it to macro evolution and this is little more then a bait and switch attempt to mislead people. Perhaps the real problem is if you want to try to deal with the lies and the deception or the false science then you have to do some research and know a little bit of what you are talking about and for most people that is simply more trouble then what it is worth and they do not have time to mess around with it. I had a friend with a Phd in Biological science. He really did not support evolutionary theory but he was to busy to argue with anyone about it and he did not want to get into the debate or the discussion.

Just because common ancestor, bottleneck theory, and even natural selection are fairly well accepted that does not make a lot of the nonsense that evolutionists try to promote true. Even if it all comes down to the way science works and the way that new information comes along all the time to show us how wrong we were. I remember going around and around with my doctor about this. He was almost evangelical in the way doctors practice medicine. Then when I ask him about something they did 20 years ago he would say they use to believe that but now we believe this. Science goes through constant revision and change and they are far to quick to try to defend beliefs that simply do not end up surviving the test of time.
 
Upvote 0

Jimmy D

Well-Known Member
Dec 11, 2014
5,147
5,995
✟277,099.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
The problem with people like you is that you equate perusing some creationist websites, in conjunction with your supposed biology degree, with actual knowledge.

BINGO!

Btw, I don't think Joshua claims to have a biology degree, just that you would need to one to understand evolution as well as he thinks he does.
 
Reactions: NathanM.
Upvote 0

Jimmy D

Well-Known Member
Dec 11, 2014
5,147
5,995
✟277,099.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
I had a friend with a Phd in Biological science. He really did not support evolutionary theory but he was to busy to argue with anyone about it and he did not want to get into the debate or the discussion.

I wonder why?
 
Reactions: NathanM.
Upvote 0

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,593
Northern Ohio
✟314,607.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
There is no conflict between science and the Bible. The question is what does the Bible teach us and what is true science. The nice thing about science is that true science does just that and seeks to know the truth.

If you want to talk about evolution then the Bible has a LOT to say about that sense Adam was the first food producer. Before Adam you have hunter gathers. If it were not for Noah a lot of the cultivated food today from the middle east would have perished. Science does a lot to help us understand what we read about Noah and Adam.
 
Upvote 0

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,593
Northern Ohio
✟314,607.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Here is what you wrote:

"...Paley came before Darwin and Darwin was trying to come up with an argument against Paley "

Are you claiming that you did NOT write that?

What context, specifically, alters the obvious meaning of that claim that YOU MADE?
The point is YOU claim that Darwin invented evolution and he did not. It was around long before Darwin. His only contribution was the theory of natural selection. As you well know evolution today is made up of many theory well beyond natural selection. Some of them accepted and some of them are not very well selected.
 
Upvote 0

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,593
Northern Ohio
✟314,607.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Perhaps you can quote me where I said that Darwin "invented evolution."
So you agree with me then that Darwin did not invent evolution. He just helped to rewrite the dictionary to come up with a new definition for the word.
 
Upvote 0

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,593
Northern Ohio
✟314,607.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
A good example is Francis Collins book "The Language of Life". He tells us that: "The discoveries of the last decade, little known to most of the public, have completely overturned much of what used to be taught in High School Biology".
 
Upvote 0

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,593
Northern Ohio
✟314,607.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
No, and I am on the verge of no longer responding to you as you seem to have something of an honesty issue.
You have not demonstrated that you have anything to contribute so if you want to quit then no problem.
 
Upvote 0

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,593
Northern Ohio
✟314,607.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
A good example is Abraham in the Chaldean city of Ur. They mixed astronomy and astrology together. The City of Ur was very advanced in Science in their day. Yet there was a lot of error and Abraham was called out of Ur to separate himself from their error.
 
Upvote 0

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,593
Northern Ohio
✟314,607.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Upvote 0

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,593
Northern Ohio
✟314,607.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Meyer - not Meyers. You can't even get your own people right!
Yes your right I did not get it right and I grabbed the wrong book off of the shelf. When we need to looking at is: "Endless Forms Most Beautiful: The New Science of Evo Devo" by Sean B. Carroll SEAN CARROLL is a professor of molecular biology and genetics so he has the qualifications that you are looking for.

I have nothing to add or contribute. We can only have a discussion about the books written by the people that do contribute. James D Watson's book "The Double Helix" was first published in 1968 and that was the year I read that book. All these people Watson, Collins & Carroll make their contribution to science and people like me just try to keep up and not get left in the dust of the oblivious.

This is a way to teach science for people who would otherwise not be interested at all. This is a way to take something dull and boring and make it interesting.
 
Upvote 0