Can I Rant?

[QuiltAngel]

Okay, this last month has been rather interesting, but today take it all.

I am a member of our Ladies' Aid or LWML. We added a lot of new members about a year ago. One of those members just had to be president this year and I am finally seeing a side of her that I have been told about. Seems she likes to have things her way. Well, she got the meeting changed to Mondays at 4. Not the best time for my husband, but works.

Now, today, she brought up using the Beth Moore Bible Studies in our meetings by having a the meetings be more Bible Study. She ran it by Pastor about 10 days ago and he asked to see some of the materials though it is not something he would rate up there to use. She brought it up today without having his full input into it. He has not been able to give it nor did he attend today due to breaking his ankle a little over a week ago. Well, I asked if this had been brought up to him. Then they wanted to show a video from the study at next meeting and I suggested that it not be done until he gets to preview it. I wish she had not brought it up before getting Pastor's full input on it.

Seems that what he has been doing for the Bible study does not meet with the new members approval either as they are "boring" and Beth Moore studies are exciting. They also want him to be around for these studies to give input should something not be correct. He has a commitment an hour away on Mondays at 7, to do a study that would last to about 5:30 or later would make life interesting for him, especially now that he needs a chauffeur.

The group in town is the section on James. I am really wondering how that one is being done.

Also, we have women leading these studies and most don't consult with the Pastors so I really wonder how theologically correct they are or if the errors are being corrected.

I am afraid that some of the members were not happy with me on this. I know that I will also be looking at the materials they bring over for him to review. I just may be taking a long hiatus from Aid meetings. Well, I do know that there are only I will be able to attend between now and the end of the year.

Thanks for letting me rant.

 

[cerette]

First I think it's great that you didn't just keep quiet when this thing bothered you. I had not heard of Beth Moore before but after having googled her now I am prepared to say I would probably not want to attend any "exciting Beth Moore studies" at my church. In fact I would probably be furious if any such events were held, as she is some kind of a Baptist minister and I am in a conservative Lutheran church. There are plenty of good Lutheran Bible study materials around.
I am surprised that she/they would introduce this Moore-stuff before having gotten the Pastor's report.
My suggestion to you is that if they will in fact do these Beth Moore studies, you should attend those meetings well prepared and point out any (read: all*) false claims in them, and hold the leader(s) accountable for indirectly teaching this at your woman's group.

* I am assuming here that Beth Moore's studies will be loaded with theological junk, as often is the case with such ministries. If I am wrong I hereby apologize to Beth Moore.

 

[QuiltAngel]

Well I plan on looking over the materials with Pastor when they bring him to me (Pastor is my husband). Sad thing is, there is only 2 meetings I can attend between now and the end of the year.

Supposedly other Pastor's have looked at them and okayed, them , but I wonder what books they have looked at.

Ugh. so many people do not understand our Lutheran theology and think they can study other works.

I will let you know what I learn when I see the materials. They are wanting to do James which is what the women's community Bible Study is doing and two of our members are going to that.

 

[cerette]

It shocks me that people from your congregation are going to "women's community Bible Study"...sounds to me like that is not a Lutheran thing? I don't know which synod you're in, but it just doesn't sound right to me....

Do you know for sure that other pastors' have OK:ed the books? If so, I guess they should be OK in your church...but still it just seems unnecessary to have non-lutheran books when there are plenty of Lutheran ones around, and since your Pastor has been preparing studies for your group (I think I read that in the OP).

 

[LilLamb219]

Rant away, my dear!

It's great that they want to do more bible studies. It's not so great that they want to put a non-Lutheran perspective to it though.

As cerette said, there are so many wonderful Lutheran resources to use...why go to a source that doesn't agree with what we believe? Why risk having that infiltrate the congregation's female members...those who are teaching their children at home?

I know your husband is having a tough time right now...but I hope he takes this woman aside and lets her know how she could be endangering the faith of those in the group. There are so many Lutherans who just are NOT aware that other denomination bible studies have a certain slant to them that we do not agree with.

May God help you through this!

Okay, this last month has been rather interesting, but today take it all.

I am a member of our Ladies' Aid or LWML. We added a lot of new members about a year ago. One of those members just had to be president this year and I am finally seeing a side of her that I have been told about. Seems she likes to have things her way. Well, she got the meeting changed to Mondays at 4. Not the best time for my husband, but works.

Now, today, she brought up using the Beth Moore Bible Studies in our meetings by having a the meetings be more Bible Study. She ran it by Pastor about 10 days ago and he asked to see some of the materials though it is not something he would rate up there to use. She brought it up today without having his full input into it. He has not been able to give it nor did he attend today due to breaking his ankle a little over a week ago. Well, I asked if this had been brought up to him. Then they wanted to show a video from the study at next meeting and I suggested that it not be done until he gets to preview it. I wish she had not brought it up before getting Pastor's full input on it.

Seems that what he has been doing for the Bible study does not meet with the new members approval either as they are "boring" and Beth Moore studies are exciting. They also want him to be around for these studies to give input should something not be correct. He has a commitment an hour away on Mondays at 7, to do a study that would last to about 5:30 or later would make life interesting for him, especially now that he needs a chauffeur.

The group in town is the section on James. I am really wondering how that one is being done.

Also, we have women leading these studies and most don't consult with the Pastors so I really wonder how theologically correct they are or if the errors are being corrected.

I am afraid that some of the members were not happy with me on this. I know that I will also be looking at the materials they bring over for him to review. I just may be taking a long hiatus from Aid meetings. Well, I do know that there are only I will be able to attend between now and the end of the year.

Thanks for letting me rant.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

My pastor hubby would have a huge issue if he found out any of our women were going to community bible studies.

Sounds like you got a "gator" in your church. I'll say a prayer for you tonight. We've been fortunate that the only "issue" is my organ playing!!

 

[QuiltAngel]

It is not a Lutheran thing the community one. I am LCMS. I don't know for sure that Pastors have really okayed them or that is what these others are saying. But you see, those others are boring and not exciting. I keep praying that this love of Beth Moore would lessen and that we wouldn't have had to deal with this. Two of the women in the group are related to one who leads them at another of our LCMS churches.

All of the women who are pushing for this are new to our LWML group. Then they have several of the meetings on Sundays where Pastor can not do a Bible Study as he has a dual parish. They haven't been around enough for regular meetings with studies.

I just pray that this all works out somehow. I am just relaying what these women are saying. I have been getting increasingly frustrated with this group in the last year. This just seems to be the "last straw" so to speak.

ETA: The community one is led by a Lutheran, but it is for everyone.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

It is not a Lutheran thing the community one. I am LCMS. I don't know for sure that Pastors have really okayed them or that is what these others are saying. But you see, those others are boring and not exciting. I keep praying that this love of Beth Moore would lessen and that we wouldn't have had to deal with this. Two of the women in the group are related to one who leads them at another of our LCMS churches.

All of the women who are pushing for this are new to our LWML group. Then they have several of the meetings on Sundays where Pastor can not do a Bible Study as he has a dual parish. They haven't been around enough for regular meetings with studies.

I just pray that this all works out somehow. I am just relaying what these women are saying. I have been getting increasingly frustrated with this group in the last year. This just seems to be the "last straw" so to speak.

I sometimes think we have it worse because they think if we sign on with what they want to do, we'll have pull with the pastor.

 

[QuiltAngel]

I sometimes think we have it worse because they think if we sign on with what they want to do, we'll have pull with the pastor.

I think you are right. I know people always want to know something. I usually know nothing and many times, that is literally true for the subject.

 

[cerette]

In my view this has clearly become an issue. As soon as someone is wondering about the doctrinal soundness of something, the issue should be dealt with. Your pastor should tell the leader that she should not /is not allowed to use this material until it has been rightly approved. The Pastor is the shepherd and he is responsible for looking after the members, and sounds to me like he is willing to do so since he's provided his own study material in the past. These new study books might contain all kinds of false teachings, and it is irresponsible to present them to a bunch of ladies without proper "approval" from someone who has had the chance to read them and see if they're OK.
Perhaps what these new members need is a catechism class if they really consider 'excitement' to be that important.

 

[Moses Medina]

My pastor hubby would have a huge issue if he found out any of our women were going to community bible studies.

Sounds like you got a "gator" in your church. I'll say a prayer for you tonight. We've been fortunate that the only "issue" is my organ playing!!

I have nothing to add to this topic, however I will agree it's a big issue. Not to go off topic though BUT... I forgot to mention this,

because of your topic Preacherswife on your organ playing, I made it a point to seek out our Organ player and thank and compliment her. I'm not sure if you did give it up for good or not, but I'll do my part to try to not see that happen to organ players in the churches I end up attending!

 

[PreachersWife2004]

I have nothing to add to this topic, however I will agree it's a big issue. Not to go off topic though BUT... I forgot to mention this,

because of your topic Preacherswife on your organ playing, I made it a point to seek out our Organ player and thank and compliment her. I'm not sure if you did give it up for good or not, but I'll do my part to try to not see that happen to organ players in the churches I end up attending!

Thank you for doing that! Since I couldn't stand the thought of a computer playing I offered to play Good Friday and Easter. That's pretty much it for now.

 

[illudium_phosdex]

I'm not sure if I should comment since I'm only currently attending a Lutheran Church and haven't yet started the official process of converting but here goes anyway. For what it's worth, it's this Beth Moore kind of theology that I'm trying to get away from in turning to the LCMS. If I wanted more of this kind of thing, I'd probably just find a nice UMC with a traditional service and go there. The unfortunate thing is that the UMC has already let her type of theology creep in. Here's an interesting link about her. Be warned, this is a Methodist site (but this is where I'm coming from so...) but I think that some of the same things that the LCMS should be concerned about are some of the same things that these particular Methodists are concerned about.

If you notice (if you looked at the link), Cokesbury, which is the Methodist Church publishing house is now selling Beth Moore materials. It started with allowing her seminars and Bible studies to be taught at the various churches. I would certainly hate to see Concordia selling her stuff and approving it especially after searching for the last 10 years and feeling like I've finally found it and then that same junk I was trying to get away from seeping right on in.

My three biggest issues are 1.) She is Southern Baptist and as such, espouses much of their doctrine, 2.) She's a Calvinist, and 3.) she is teaching the Left Behind type of end times craziness that seems to be so popular today. The Methodist Church of my youth was definitely amillennial. Not so much any more because most of the people who go to those churches are learning their theology from these types of sources. It's a very sad state of affairs.

 

[Moses Medina]

Though it might creep in here and there, I am very confident that it will be thrown out and that the LCMS and other confessional bodies simply wont allow this.

I'm not sure if I should comment since I'm only currently attending a Lutheran Church and haven't yet started the official process of converting but here goes anyway. For what it's worth, it's this Beth Moore kind of theology that I'm trying to get away from in turning to the LCMS. If I wanted more of this kind of thing, I'd probably just find a nice UMC with a traditional service and go there. The unfortunate thing is that the UMC has already let her type of theology creep in. Here's an interesting link about her. Be warned, this is a Methodist site (but this is where I'm coming from so...) but I think that some of the same things that the LCMS should be concerned about are some of the same things that these particular Methodists are concerned about.

If you notice (if you looked at the link), Cokesbury, which is the Methodist Church publishing house is now selling Beth Moore materials. It started with allowing her seminars and Bible studies to be taught at the various churches. I would certainly hate to see Concordia selling her stuff and approving it especially after searching for the last 10 years and feeling like I've finally found it and then that same junk I was trying to get away from seeping right on in.

My three biggest issues are 1.) She is Southern Baptist and as such, espouses much of their doctrine, 2.) She's a Calvinist, and 3.) she is teaching the Left Behind type of end times craziness that seems to be so popular today. The Methodist Church of my youth was definitely amillennial. Not so much any more because most of the people who go to those churches are learning their theology from these types of sources. It's a very sad state of affairs.

 

[QuiltAngel]

I don't think that Concordia Publishing House will be publishing her stuff.

Sad to say Dario, it has been creeping into our churches for a long time. Part of me wonders what took so long for it to be suggested in our church. You hear of Pastors having reviewed it and saying it is okay and then you have others who say it is not okay.

 

[alexnbethmom]

Rev and my home church pastor would never, in 900 bazillion years, EVER "okay" anything by beth moore, or joyce meyer, or anything of that nature....

 

[DaRev]

The tide of the LCMS has been slowly turning back to the Confessional and Biblical roots of the synod since the last convention. We now have a pastor as president of synod instead of a politician. While there still are elements within the synod that like to reach from without, the trend is now the other way. Our publishing house, CPH, has produced some wonderful materials in recent years. There's really no need to go outside of our own tradition.

 

[QuiltAngel]

The tide of the LCMS has been slowly turning back to the Confessional and Biblical roots of the synod since the last convention. We now have a pastor as president of synod instead of a politician. While there still are elements within the synod that like to reach from without, the trend is now the other way. Our publishing house, CPH, has produced some wonderful materials in recent years. There's really no need to go outside of our own tradition.

I pointed that out, the response I got was "those are boring" to which I had to ask how they knew that. If it weren't for my crazy schedule, I would start a women's Bible Study like I had in our previous church. We had 6 active members who really appreciated getting together to study and we used CPH materials. For them, it was that we were studying and not that it was exciting or anything, it was the learning that took place.

 

[LilLamb219]

I pointed that out, the response I got was "those are boring" to which I had to ask how they knew that. If it weren't for my crazy schedule, I would start a women's Bible Study like I had in our previous church. We had 6 active members who really appreciated getting together to study and we used CPH materials. For them, it was that we were studying and not that it was exciting or anything, it was the learning that took place.

To their "boring" complaints, maybe you could respond with, "You do realize that those so-called exciting bible studies that are being pushed are filled with unbiblical things, right? I know you don't want to promote false theology."

 

[ThunderTongue]

(didn't read entire thread)


If anyone wants an easy overview of Beth's manner of teaching, watch "life today with James Robison" tomorrow on TBN or other religious station. She is on their show on Wednesdays doing a women's bible study. She speaks a lot on Grace to live holy, emotional healing, and growing closer to God