Can I question some things I hear, in our Charismatic movement?

[Frogster]

this is an old post, from another thread...




There is nothing in the Greek there about money, “things”. The good things contextually were clearly moral restoration. 5:13, 6:10

If we presume “things” meant money in 6:6, then that would mean that it would be the same good “things” in 6:9-10, meaning that Paul was telling them to go around give money to all.

Communicate (share) in 6:6, means just that, get involved with the good pastors, let the spiritual help the fallen of 6:1, help the good pastors to restore, don’t be on the Judaizers side or teaching, as 5 into 6 was all about moral restoration, walk in the Spirit 5:16 etc, Paul wanted them with the good side of the isle.

In light of the fact that the Judaizers used to say Paul stole, 2 Cor 7:2, and 2 Cor 12:16, it would be silly for Paul to give them ammo, in light of the conflict in Galatia, and turn around and tell the church to give money to those on his side. They would pounce on Paul for that in a second, he would not set himself like that, that’s why he for the most part Paul worked, and said in 2 Cor 11:12, that he shows false apostles they are false, because he works. So he would want to do the same in Galatia, and show up the false ones, and not support their charges against him, and leave an opening for accusation against him, or his elders by saying to the church, give my guys money.

. The sow to flesh vs sow to Spirit are a repeat of 5:16-18, and that was about morality, so verses 7-8 are a repeat, and fit the context there, he was restoring morals, not using those verses to show them to give money

Do we really gain eternal life, by giving money to pastors? If we think verse 6 is about money, then we must presume Paul meant reaping eternal life by money giving money there, even though it was about morality.

 

[turned around]

What I mean is if they sow spiritual substance to me. I reciprocrate monies in return to their ministry Galatians 6:6. Hey I,m open to learning. I want to learn in the context of the new creation.

 

[Frogster]

What I mean is if they sow spiritual substance to me. I reciprocrate monies in return to their ministry Galatians 6:6. Hey I,m open to learning. I want to learn in the context of the new creation.

Nice to talk to you, hey, maybe we can talk rom 14 too...

 

[contango]

Since we're talking about money again, it's worth noting the difference between the parishioner who makes an offering in love to support the church or the pastor as an individual (regardless of what it costs them) and the pastor who creates an environment where it's clear people are expected to give a certain amount.

 

[Alive_Again]

... it's worth noting the difference between the parishioner who makes an offering in love to support the church or the pastor as an individual (regardless of what it costs them) and the pastor who creates an environment where it's clear people are expected to give a certain amount.

People shouldn't be harsh with pastors who take up offerings and question their motives. It's understood that it costs money to do what they do. It costs money to pay the rent and AC at the church (even God knows this).

People would have been struck down long ago if it were wrong. Yes, to create an environment where people think they have to give their last farthing would be wrong. Just join in the groaning for liberty and be glad that it is forthcoming.

It's not wrong to tell people that God will bless them if they tithe (10%). Some churches might say things like it's mandatory, but I've never seen one. I know they're out there, and anyone with any common sense will go somewhere else if they feel uncomfortable.

Some churches fall on hard times (because they're not following the plan very accurately) and they resort to more manipulative urgings. I really do think that God's working out the money situation. Our part in the mean time is not to judge them for taking offerings (even two or three).

You can abstain from any offering you want. If you continually hear urgent pleas, the you can easily go somewhere else.

Overall, you save yourself a lot of baggage by not taking on the burden of wondering what he or she is gonna do with the money. You can always pray for wisdom for those who handle it and consider it dealt with. (I'm saying these things in general and not necessarily at you.)

 

[contango]

People shouldn't be harsh with pastors who take up offerings and question their motives. It's understood that it costs money to do what they do. It costs money to pay the rent and AC at the church (even God knows this).

People would have been struck down long ago if it were wrong. Yes, to create an environment where people think they have to give their last farthing would be wrong. Just join in the groaning for liberty and be glad that it is forthcoming.

It's not wrong to tell people that God will bless them if they tithe (10%). Some churches might say things like it's mandatory, but I've never seen one. I know they're out there, and anyone with any common sense will go somewhere else if they feel uncomfortable.

Some churches fall on hard times (because they're not following the plan very accurately) and they resort to more manipulative urgings. I really do think that God's working out the money situation. Our part in the mean time is not to judge them for taking offerings (even two or three).

You can abstain from any offering you want. If you continually hear urgent pleas, the you can easily go somewhere else.

Overall, you save yourself a lot of baggage by not taking on the burden of wondering what he or she is gonna do with the money. You can always pray for wisdom for those who handle it and consider it dealt with. (I'm saying these things in general and not necessarily at you.)

I don't have a problem with offerings in general, as you say if we want a building to use for meetings it has to be paid for, utilities have to be paid, and so on.

I'd rather people focus on Paul's words to the Corinthians that people should give what they want to give because God loves a cheerful giver, than to focus on a specific percentage.

If I can't give with an attitude that I'm handing over the money and willing to trust the recipient to use it wisely, I don't hand over money at all.

So on that basis I think we agree almost entirely on this one!

 

[Frogster]

People shouldn't be harsh with pastors who take up offerings and question their motives. It's understood that it costs money to do what they do. It costs money to pay the rent and AC at the church (even God knows this).



People would have been struck down long ago if it were wrong. Yes, to create an environment where people think they have to give their last farthing would be wrong. Just join in the groaning for liberty and be glad that it is forthcoming.

It's not wrong to tell people that God will bless them if they tithe (10%). Some churches might say things like it's mandatory, but I've never seen one. I know they're out there, and anyone with any common sense will go somewhere else if they feel uncomfortable.

Some churches fall on hard times (because they're not following the plan very accurately) and they resort to more manipulative urgings. I really do think that God's working out the money situation. Our part in the mean time is not to judge them for taking offerings (even two or three).

You can abstain from any offering you want. If you continually hear urgent pleas, the you can easily go somewhere else.

Overall, you save yourself a lot of baggage by not taking on the burden of wondering what he or she is gonna do with the money. You can always pray for wisdom for those who handle it and consider it dealt with. (I'm saying these things in general and not necessarily at you.)

but you said this in post 327, the red below.....

so we need to question motives, and the extraction twisting of text methods applied, to get the money. How "ignorant" are these teachers, they call themselves bible doctors, they read the bible for decades, and the fact that you said they are wrong, means confrontation must follow. They don't know mal 3, was old cov laws for a gone temple? They don't know that 2 cor 8-9 was not money for paul, and it was a one time event, not a lifelong one? They donlt know 2 Cor 8, has an exemption for the poor written in it? Bro, this goes way past ignorance....they can't plead that defense, no way.



I understand Frogster that SOME PEOPLE preach the law in Malachi when taking up tithes. MANY churches (ignorantly) preach 2 Cor when taking up offerings (citing increasing their fruit here in the world). (I believe) that their heads are wrong,

 

[Frogster]

People shouldn't be harsh with pastors who take up offerings and question their motives. It's understood that it costs money to do what they do. It costs money to pay the rent and AC at the church (even God knows this).

People would have been struck down long ago if it were wrong. Yes, to create an environment where people think they have to give their last farthing would be wrong. Just join in the groaning for liberty and be glad that it is forthcoming.

It's not wrong to tell people that God will bless them if they tithe (10%). Some churches might say things like it's mandatory, but I've never seen one. I know they're out there, and anyone with any common sense will go somewhere else if they feel uncomfortable.

Some churches fall on hard times (because they're not following the plan very accurately) and they resort to more manipulative urgings. I really do think that God's working out the money situation. Our part in the mean time is not to judge them for taking offerings (even two or three).

You can abstain from any offering you want. If you continually hear urgent pleas, the you can easily go somewhere else.

Overall, you save yourself a lot of baggage by not taking on the burden of wondering what he or she is gonna do with the money. You can always pray for wisdom for those who handle it and consider it dealt with. (I'm saying these things in general and not necessarily at you.)

red above, it can be wrong, the tithing 10% jerusalem church were poor, they never reaped..


and even in 2 Cor 8:14, paul said you guys might be in need one day, even after they gave, all proving that the 10% giver, is not always guaranteed a money return, is he?

 

[isleof]

red above, it can be wrong, the tithing 10% jerusalem church were poor, they never reaped..


and even in 2 Cor 8:14, paul said you guys might be in need one day, even after they gave, all proving that the 10% giver, is not always guaranteed a money return, is he?

A return? Who wants a return? Lets be honest, only the wicked want as much or more in return when giving.

 

[Alive_Again]

red above, it can be wrong, the tithing 10% jerusalem church were poor, they never reaped..


and even in 2 Cor 8:14, paul said you guys might be in need one day, even after they gave, all proving that the 10% giver, is not always guaranteed a money return, is he?

In Malachi God clearly states that He'll bless the tither. In the NT, we give from the heart. The people in the law had God's promise already that He'll bless firstfruits and tithes. They were supposed to give to the poor and the stranger. They left the corners of their fields for strangers.

In the New Covenant, God has promised to meet our needs when we put the kingdom first.

I think it is legit to encourage people to tithe from the grace that is in their heart. If they're just obeying the law, it is opposing the work of grace.

It's not about money anyway, but it is necessary.

 

[Frogster]

A return? Who wants a return? Lets be honest, only the wicked want as much or more in return when giving.

welp..the tithe teachers offer a return...

 

[Frogster]

In Malachi God clearly states that He'll bless the tither. In the NT, we give from the heart. The people in the law had God's promise already that He'll bless firstfruits and tithes. They were supposed to give to the poor and the stranger. They left the corners of their fields for strangers.

In the New Covenant, God has promised to meet our needs when we put the kingdom first.

I think it is legit to encourage people to tithe from the grace that is in their heart. If they're just obeying the law, it is opposing the work of grace.

It's not about money anyway, but it is necessary.

what does this have to do with the tithe teachers using the Mal 3 curse/fear, to extract money, from anyone they can, even the poor and old?

 

[isleof]

welp..the tithe teachers offer a return...

God is my only reward. You?

 

[everready]

Out of almost 400 posts somebody has probably posted this.. the Lord himself expects us to question our eyes at times not every sign and wonder we see comes from the light side in Matthew He says..

Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Most of the Christians i know will question a story when they hear it and don't forget..

II Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

 

[Frogster]

God is my only reward. You?

yes, and my wife..

 

[Frogster]

Out of almost 400 posts somebody has probably posted this.. the Lord himself expects us to question our eyes at times not every sign and wonder we see comes from the light side in Matthew He says..

Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Most of the Christians i know will question a story when they hear it and don't forget..

II Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

exactly, but some say we can't, because of the touch not my anointed verse, but the frog has hadily proved that is not so, there are alot of verses that show a challenge to false teachings,/preachers/apostles, etc.

 

[Alive_Again]

what does this have to do with the tithe teachers using the Mal 3 curse/fear, to extract money, from anyone they can, even the poor and old?

My point was that it doesn't have to have anything to do with it.

In Malachi, as someone has pointed out, speaks against (in proceeding chapters) that the tithe they gave didn't have their heart in them. God was against it in those circumstances. I know it says more, but it comes back to God acknowledging the blessing (even) in tithing. It was the law then, and although some preach it that way now, they all don't, and it would be a mistake to put everyone in that category just because tithing is being brought up.

Overall, if we get all upset because people are tithing and encouraging people to give (and we don't judge their intent, but rather leave that to God) then it's not a big crisis every time someone passes the offering bucket.

Just because the poor give, it is not "extracted" from them. They give cheerfully. It's better to be part of the solution than the problem. If we're carrying an axe to grind, it assumes it is our agenda (not the Lords).

When I was upset because seemingly nothing was going on in the Body on Friday night, the Lord corrected me (actually rebuked me) for not judging His body. "Where are all these pastors on Friday? We only see them 2 days a week!).

He followed with: "You've made a few mistakes too along the way." So we're to leave judging the body to Him (even though Peter and Paul and Timothy did it). They were led to do it by the Holy Spirit, it wasn't a "cause" to take up that leaves you bent out of shape and overly judgmental with your own position because you "tithe mint and cummin" (or not).

Of course things like this are going on and of course we're not rejoicing if it does occur, but if we keep coming back to it, it's likely a problem "we're" having more than someone elses difficulty.

If we feel the need to lash out at leaders (we don't meet in person), believing the worst in them, then it would be a good idea to re-evaluate and get free.

 

[Frogster]

My point was that it doesn't have to have anything to do with it.

In Malachi, as someone has pointed out, speaks against (in proceeding chapters) that the tithe they gave didn't have their heart in them. God was against it in those circumstances. I know it says more, but it comes back to God acknowledging the blessing (even) in tithing. It was the law then, and although some preach it that way now, they all don't, and it would be a mistake to put everyone in that category just because tithing is being brought up.

Overall, if we get all upset because people are tithing and encouraging people to give (and we don't judge their intent, but rather leave that to God) then it's not a big crisis every time someone passes the offering bucket.

Just because the poor give, it is not "extracted" from them. They give cheerfully. It's better to be part of the solution than the problem. If we're carrying an axe to grind, it assumes it is our agenda (not the Lords).

When I was upset because seemingly nothing was going on in the Body on Friday night, the Lord corrected me (actually rebuked me) for not judging His body. "Where are all these pastors on Friday? We only see them 2 days a week!).

He followed with: "You've made a few mistakes too along the way." So we're to leave judging the body to Him (even though Peter and Paul and Timothy did it). They were led to do it by the Holy Spirit, it wasn't a "cause" to take up that leaves you bent out of shape and overly judgmental with your own position because you "tithe mint and cummin" (or not).

Of course things like this are going on and of course we're not rejoicing if it does occur, but if we keep coming back to it, it's likely a problem "we're" having more than someone elses difficulty.

If we feel the need to lash out at leaders (we don't meet in person), believing the worst in them, then it would be a good idea to re-evaluate and get free.

sorry, but it is extraction, when the poor are told directly, they will be cursed for not tithing, as the preacher quotes mal 3, that is a fact.

 

[Alive_Again]

sorry, but it is extraction, when the poor are told directly, they will be cursed for not tithing, as the preacher quotes mal 3, that is a fact.

Of course it would be! That's not what we're talking about. We're talking about tithes being taken up and the poor giving. This is how offerings go. We cannot judge the heart condition when this happens.

 

[Frogster]

Of course it would be! That's not what we're talking about. We're talking about tithes being taken up and the poor giving. This is how offerings go. We cannot judge the heart condition when this happens.

but the poor are told they must give, or be judged, and tithe is not even a NT teaching.

I am talking about the method of the teachers, as you must know by now.