By the fruit! You cannot fake the real anointing. If you're unsure, or if there is the "false anointing" (a real spiritual affect), then you don't have the same "knowing". I think the "knowing" has a certain godly fear to it, knowing full well that as a man of the flesh, if you're in the natural, you're in danger of being deceived.
One big thing when you're weighing this, is don't be in the natural when you do it. Don't just roll out of bed and "rule" on a finding. I like to wait until after a service, or when you gather together with someone specifically for (real) fellowship. It's not chewing the cud, it's the kind like in Malachi where the Angels take notes. It's something you want to see the replay of when that time comes, because it's giving glory to God. It's got the elements of searching and acknowledging and the anointing. It's safety in numbers. It's getting a read on someone else's spirit. I learn a LOT of what I "know" because as soon as I say something (from my mouth), I often get a sense of where it is oriented with the truth.
It's supernatural and you've absolutely have to be renewed. But when you've come out of a very anointed service, and you're full, and your senses are working (not your emotions), then you're in a position to really weigh in on these kinds of things.
You're still describing a subjective feeling. You still don't have a way to draw an objective conclusion if one person says "bad" and another says "good". In other words, your subjective feeling trumps everything else. That can't be a good place to be.
The "not getting it" is not always some wall or spirit. Often the "day dawns" and we learn as the puzzle pieces come together. We look at the supernatural peace and trust God to show you what He wants you to know. If it's not immediately obvious (some things are), then you reserve final judgment (aka "your findings") until you're more convinced (or not). Sometimes, it is a "wall" and you sense that too in discussion.
The trouble is peace can be a supernatural peace from God, it can be a simple feel-good factor from natural causes. If you've ever smoked marijuana you'll know that gives you a sense of peace as well, but to say it's the same as the peace that God gives is clearly absurd. So when you've got multiple possible causes it seems a bit presumptuous to say "I have peace, therefore this is from God".
All of the possible reasons for "not" getting it are somewhat valid. Maybe you're dealing with something and you're not as sharp. Maybe you just woke up, or are distracted. Maybe you have an inclination against that thing already, and you need MORE convincing. It doesn't mean you're (we're) a dunce because it didn't knock us out and we didn't float on the glory cloud. It just means you want to learn more about it (if you're actually led to do so).
Maybe all sorts of things. But for as long as you're talking about subjective feelings all you will ever have is maybe. If one person says it's good and another says it's bad, who is right? Unless you can go back to an objective definition all you have is endless arguments over who is anointed and who might be listening to what spirits, or who is deceived, and you go in circles. You become the spiritual equivalent of people arguing over whether a block of cheese weighs more or less than a pound but refusing to put it on a scale.
I will tell you about some of these signs (not the Catholic ones), I'm not in a hurry to get on board with everything people claim on these things. I am at peace with certain things happening in general. Whether or not the "stars" I "saw" back in the 80's might have been me getting up fast (as a "catcher"). I was still looking at them though and I found it interesting. Looking back, it probably wasn't anything real.
I said: It's all judging fruits during the whole process and the scripture provides the "framework" the discussion is held within, but that only gives the parameters. The Word is what we learned in school, and what is being discerned in that moment is moving within those lessons.
It's fair to say if that is what you experience when someone presents a particular sign or experience. It keeps you from validating something you don't bear witness to (and not necessarily against). It keeps you open and does not set into motion a judgmental spirit (assignment) against you for speaking out of turn or unadvisedly.
All this fundamentally boils down to "if it feels good, it's good". But since everything seems to boil down to feelings, how would you address a situation like this (this is a real situation with some vagueness added to preserve privacy).
People who know me spiritually say I have a prophetic gifting. Some say it's very strong. So when I visit a church and they show a video of what is presented as a spiritual outpouring, and I feel such a sense of spiritual repulsion that I can't even stand to be in the same building, does that mean the "spiritual outpouring" is a good thing or a bad thing? Just to make it interesting, other people who claim prophetic giftings said it was good. So now you've got two people who claim prophetic giftings, one registers a powerful sense of spiritual darkness over it, another registers a sense (I don't know how powerful) of goodness over it. It can't be both. So which is it, and how do you decide?
I would dare say that the witness of the Holy Spirit is not subjective at all. The voice of the Shepherd is not either. Again, some things aren't as obvious, but when say, I am thinking about giving something I'm "getting" to someone and I'm mulling over it inside, and I speak it out, and it's covered with power, I know that was either a word of knowledge or a piece of a prophecy that continues with the "conversation". It's rolling with purity and power, and the enemy CANNOT counterfeit that.
How can you tell whether speaking something is "covered with power"? Even as a Christian this sounds like religious gobbledegook.
If it's "rolling with purity and power" (that also sounds like religious gobbledegook) I'll refer back to the situation I described above and ask just what power it's rolling with.
Short of that, you might reserve judgment because you DO have devils that watch and they try to chime in too with their "powers". And these very things DO deceive and probably everyone has fallen prey to that sort of thing at one time or another.
So if everyone has fallen prey to "that sort of thing" how can you tell so conclusively that you haven't fallen prey to "that sort of thing" any time you claim that something is "covered with power"? Effectively what you're saying was "I was misguided before but now I'm certain" but still refuse to work against an objective standard to make sure you're not misguided again.
The big thing here (if I'm understanding this and other supernatural giving manifestations), is that the people were "ALL IN". That loosed God to do likewise. If people just a little because they knew God could multiply the fishes, then you'd probably have a bunch of hungry people.
What kind of God is impotent in the face of inaction by man? Doesn't God have all authority to do whatever he wants to do regardless of what we are doing?
Potentially. Does it concern you directly? Do you need to contact the "Strange Fire" people and rag on them? If you're led (as that one guy believes he was), then it's not really "you" doing the answering. I was not called to reply to the guy at work who opened up with comments about it (as an Evangelical believer). When I said it, I knew immediately I stepped out of line (still "correct"). We're not called to go about correcting our pastor either. Some things you just pray about (believing it to be effectual).
It does concern me directly when dear friends of mine follow a theology that demonstrably doesn't work, or places blame anywhere except a bad theology.
If our pastor is wrong why can't we correct them in love? Why can't we approach them with our concerns with a view to going back to Scripture and finding the truth? Why is it in some cases we get to "speak it out" and other times we are supposed to do nothing and just pray about it? Maybe God is waiting for us to do something so he can be loosed to do likewise?
I haven't the faintest!
Who, you mean. We cannot assume because we didn't get the memo that it is not valid. It might sound a little off (maybe it is), but maybe it is not. Maybe they're prophets coaching people to yield to the prophetic spirit. This is very common. It would be the Holy Spirit "teaching" you to prophecy (through them). He challenges you to speak blessing (within certain guidelines) and the Holy Spirit activates to get you to step out in prophetic expression. Everyone is supposed to prophesy.
I wonder if the Old Testament prophets were expected to train under someone to get some form of certification. When I started having prophetic visions I didn't train for them, I didn't study to get them, I didn't even ask for them, God decided that I was going to get them and that was that. The only decision I get is what to do with them. And sometimes they aren't all sunshine and roses. It's not easy talking to a pastor, giving him a word that he can tell instantly is prophetic, when it also carries a message of correction.
Why is everyone supposed to prophesy?
I'm not called to judge them for what they charge. If It's a lot and I'm offended, I won't look at it anymore! It could be that I'll present it during fellowship after a meeting (if I feel the space is given) and see what comes out and comes back. If it is none of my business, I'll get a sense of that too.
It's all part of "test all things". If we are to test people by their fruits but we can't see the fruit of their life, we have to look at what we can see. Making a profit from what God has given away for nothing is the kind of fruit that makes me wary right from the outset. Trying to tell people they need to be trained to use the gifts God has given them, as if you can learn how to manipulate God into doing your bidding, is a teaching I wouldn't go anywhere near.
Either we accept that God is sovereign, in which case there is nothing to be taught by man because God acts how God sees fit. Or we assert that we are sovereign, in which case we can learn how to manipulate natural forces to get the things we decree. Which sounds remarkably like what happened to Lucifer.
It's all within the framework of scripture. It never gets "trumped", but as NT believers, we aren't called to judge by the book (with our heads). It's a spiritual thing and if it is done scripturally and correctly, it will follow scriptural guidelines and you're judging by your spirit.
You still have no means of dealing with a situation where one person says "good" and another says "bad". When a teaching is either true or not true there is no room for middle ground.
To take an example, when Jesus walked this earth as a man he was either God or he was not God. He can't be "kind of God". He can't be God for some and not-God for others. So if someone teaches "Jesus was divine", or "Jesus was not divine" they are either speaking truth or falsehood. It's one or the other. If you're judging by subjective sensations how do you know you're doing it right?
You don't get a bad attitude to test things. Having a suspicious attitude about others and projecting that to people you (someone) knows nothing about (apart from the outward appearance, or that they claim an apostolic office) is not judging properly. You're predisposed. We're supposed to judge EVERYTHING righteously. Nothing gets a free pass. You weigh it for truth, not necessarily speak against it. If you don't "receive judgment" supernaturally, you're supposed to leave it alone (even if it offends your soul.)
If we weigh it for truth and it fails the test, do you suggest we merely keep quiet and let other people get taken in by it? Why should bad teaching get a free pass just because of distance?
What difference does it make if we "receive judgment" supernaturally? Do you think that if something contradicts Scripture we should just keep quiet and let others soak up the teaching? This sounds like the kind of life that sees us endlessly "being led" when God gave us a mind for a reason. How do we love God with all of our minds (as we are clearly commanded to do) unless we actually use our mind?
If you do it in love, you'll fall into what Corinthians says are the attributes of love and you'll still agree with what the Word says about "testing ALL THINGS".
It doesn't show much love to our fellow man if we become aware a teaching is false and do nothing to warn them. This would be akin to a watchman seeing danger coming and not sounding the alarm, and we know what God says about that.
