Can I make a graven image?

[DamianWarS]

the 2nd commandment (Exodus 2:4) says "You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth." The context is idol worship and I get that but for Israel this was a serious law and you didn't make statues of God or angels or demons regardless of it's intent because people of that time were predisposed to idol worship and the mere presence of one would be a strong temptation. The first commandment actually is talking about idol worship and the 2nd is about making idols.

Today the rules are different and if I have a little statue of an angel in my garden I am not in the least bit tempted to start worshiping it yet it is explicitly violating the 2nd commandment (no I didn't make it but the principle still holds) . Is it wrong for me to have this statue in my garden?

 

[Sabertooth]

Is it wrong for me to have this statue in my garden?

You need to work that out with God. I avoid representational images of supernatural entities because I believe it to be consistent with the intent of that command. What we think is an image of a Heavenly angel may, in fact, be a fallen angel. What we think of as an image of a Godly entity, may be an entity of darkness. (I don't object to story illustrations, though.)

"Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light." 2 Corinthians 11:14 NKJV

As an amateur figure artist/eidonomist, however, I am greatly interested in natural forms, human and animal. As you stated in the OP, I do not deify them. It is analogous to an appreciation of architecture.

 

[DamianWarS]

You need to work that out with God. I avoid representational images of supernatural entities because I believe it to be consistent with the intent of that command. What we think is an image of a Heavenly angel may, in fact, be a fallen angel. What we think of as an image of a Godly entity, may be an entity of darkness. (I don't object to story illustrations, though.)

"Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light." 2 Corinthians 11:14 NKJV

As an amateur figure artist/eidonomist, however, I am greatly interested in natural forms, human and animal. As you stated in the OP, I do not deify them. It is analogous to an appreciation of architecture.

The commandment condemns both those above and below. A angel as we have come to depict them may perhaps be a fallen angel but it would still violate the 2nd commandment.

The first commandment is about not worshipping or having any other gods and the second is about don't even make them. One could look at a statue of Buddha as a decorative piece and be explicitly violating the second commandment even if they don't regard the statue as anything. Are they free to do so under the new covenant?

If Buddha is too much to swallow than how about angels and garden gnomes? How about Mary and other "saints" ? These are in violation of the 2nd commandment, this much is true, Moses wouldn't put up with a garden gnome, but does it matter and are we released from this commandment under the new covenant?

 

[Sabertooth]

One could look at a statue of Buddha as a decorative piece and be explicitly violating the second commandment even if they don't regard the statue as anything. Are they free to do so under the new covenant?

Again, go with your conscience, but here is my take.

Paul wrote [in 1 Corinthians 10:19-20],

"Do I mean then that food sacrificed to an idol is anything, or that an idol is anything? No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons."

Idols take on demons when they are worshiped as such (even if it is by somebody else). So, Buddha (and garden gnomes) would be idols in that sense.

How about Mary and other "saints" ?

I have no place for the images of saints outside of Bible story illustrations or re-enactments.

 

[chunkofcoal]

The commandment condemns both those above and below. A angel as we have come to depict them may perhaps be a fallen angel but it would still violate the 2nd commandment.

The first commandment is about not worshipping or having any other gods and the second is about don't even make them. One could look at a statue of Buddha as a decorative piece and be explicitly violating the second commandment even if they don't regard the statue as anything. Are they free to do so under the new covenant?

If Buddha is too much to swallow than how about angels and garden gnomes? How about Mary and other "saints" ? These are in violation of the 2nd commandment, this much is true, Moses wouldn't put up with a garden gnome, but does it matter and are we released from this commandment under the new covenant?

I think you brought up a good question.
I don't think we are released from this commandment because we are in the new covenant. But the question would be: are all images idols?
I wouldn't have a Buddha statue because Buddha is an object of worship for a lot of people so I would consider it an idol. But I do have a couple garden gnomes - garden gnomes are decorative.
King Solomon's throne had lions around it - the lions were decorative, not objects of worship.
As for the statues of Mary and the saints, Catholics don't, I assume, see them as idols but there are other Christians who do.

 

[~Anastasia~]

“You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. You shall not worship them or serve them;"

The prohibition is not against any likeness whatsoever - it is against making an idol (in any form) and worshipping it. It cannot be understood to prohibit any images whatsoever - the Lord Himself commanded images to be made for the Tabernacle and temple - oxen, pomegranates, cherubim, etc. He would not prohibit something by commandment then turn around and tell people to do that very thing.

We need to be aware of our tendencies, true, and guard our hearts, and so on. But an image is not automatically an idol.

 

[DamianWarS]

But I do have a couple garden gnomes - garden gnomes are decorative

garden gnomes have real a belief set behind them that is still active today. You may not identify with these values but that doesn't mean others don't. this is the same with angels which is quite common as a statue. Animals depict earthly images which the 2nd commandment doesn't seem to address so lions or other animals wouldn't be an issue. Other common statues may be various greek mythology. All of which in western culture is meaningless with the exception of Buddha (if you're a Buddhist) but in many parts of the world these things are still regarded with power even if in some cases it's more rare.

The 2nd commandment isn't about worship (that's the first commandment) it's about merely possessing these things that could be an idols. By definition the above mentioned all violate the 2nd commandment regardless how we approach them or see some as meaningless and others as taboo.

 

[Sabertooth]

By definition the above mentioned all violate the 2nd commandment regardless how we approach them or see some as meaningless and others as taboo.

That is where "walking in the Spirit" comes into play. He is able to tell us where we should draw the line.

"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you." John 14:26 NKJV

 

[DamianWarS]

“You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. You shall not worship them or serve them;"

The prohibition is not against any likeness whatsoever - it is against making an idol (in any form) and worshipping it. It cannot be understood to prohibit any images whatsoever - the Lord Himself commanded images to be made for the Tabernacle and temple - oxen, pomegranates, cherubim, etc. He would not prohibit something by commandment then turn around and tell people to do that very thing.

We need to be aware of our tendencies, true, and guard our hearts, and so on. But an image is not automatically an idol.

the 2nd commandment seems to be of supernatural creatures not of natural creatures from its references essentially of things above and below. And it's not of all images but specifically craved images which probably makes sense in a idol context. I would think cherubim would violate the 2nd commandment and perhaps they do yet since God instructed them for specific purpose to give him glory those examples are redeemed where others of having a household crafted cherubim probably are not. The commandment seems to be about protecting the Israelites against idolatry but is not specifically about worship itself but instead making objects that tempts one into idolatry. The first command is about having no other God and it seems the 2nd commandment is about ensuring the first is kept.

According to the measure of the 2nd commandment many things violate it, even the innocent things. But does it even matter? Are you even under this law to begin with? What is the corresponding New covenant law that condemns not making specially an idol but making something that may be interpreted as an idol in an ancient world view.

 

[truefiction1]

Animals depict earthly images which the 2nd commandment doesn't seem to address so lions or other animals wouldn't be an issue.

If we interpret the 2nd commandment to be a prohibition of making an image of anything on earth, then doing so would if fact be an issue. It's not possible to interpret the 2nd commandment this way, however, because we see in Scripture that God's people did in fact make and behold such images: images of things in heaven and on earth.

The 2nd commandment isn't about worship (that's the first commandment) it's about merely possessing these things that could be an idols. By definition the above mentioned all violate the 2nd commandment regardless how we approach them or see some as meaningless and others as taboo.

As already known, if the 2nd commandment was a prohibition of merely making and having such images, and not about worshiping them, then God's people would not have been instructed by God (as is recorded in Scripture) to make and behold such images themselves. So, the commandment isn't about images, depictions, or art. It is about Loving God vs. Loving the world and the things that are in the world (1 John 2:15-17): it is a prohibition against being a slave of sinful passions, and a commandment to believe/Love God.

(Exodus 25:17-18)

 

[chunkofcoal]

garden gnomes have real a belief set behind them that is still active today. You may not identify with these values but that doesn't mean others don't. this is the same with angels which is quite common as a statue. Animals depict earthly images which the 2nd commandment doesn't seem to address so lions or other animals wouldn't be an issue. Other common statues may be various greek mythology. All of which in western culture is meaningless with the exception of Buddha (if you're a Buddhist) but in many parts of the world these things are still regarded with power even if in some cases it's more rare.

The 2nd commandment isn't about worship (that's the first commandment) it's about merely possessing these things that could be an idols. By definition the above mentioned all violate the 2nd commandment regardless how we approach them or see some as meaningless and others as taboo.

Images of animals are included in the 2nd commandment because people used them as objects of worship. Romans 1:18-23, Ezekiel 8:8-12 for example.
People do interpret the commandment differently - there are even Christian groups such as the Amish who believe photographs are graven images.
If you believe the angel statue in your garden is an idol and you are violating the commandment, then get rid of it.

 

[Sabertooth]

Further on angels,

• baby angels are modeled on the Roman god, Cupid [Greek, Eros]
• womanly angels are modeled the Roman goddess, winged Victory [Greek, Nike*]. (She is present on many trophies.)
• Biblical angels looked like glorified men and, more often than not, did not have wings.

*Besides the "goddess," Nike means the word "victory," too. For that reason, it was a common feminine, given name in the early Church. (We had a Nike.)

 

[truefiction1]

Further on angels,

• baby angels are modeled on the Roman god, Cupid [Greek, Eros]
• womanly angels are modeled the Roman goddess, winged Victory [Greek, Nike*]. (She is present on many trophies.)
• Biblical angels looked like glorified men and, more often than not, did not have wings.

*Besides the "goddess," Nike means the word "victory," too. For that reason, it was a common feminine, given name in the early Church. (We had a Nike.)

In our Church, "Nika" (Greek) means victory (might be an alternate English spelling). We have a "Nika" for a daughter (which is short for Dominika).

... and then, of course, there is this Christian symbol used by us that contains the Greek victory

 

[DamianWarS]

Further on angels,

• baby angels are modeled on the Roman god, Cupid [Greek, Eros]
• womanly angels are modeled the Roman goddess, winged Victory [Greek, Nike*]. (She is present on many trophies.)
• Biblical angels looked like glorified men and, more often than not, did not have wings.

*Besides the "goddess," Nike means the word "victory," too. For that reason, it was a common feminine, given name in the early Church. (We had a Nike.)

those are interesting finds but do these not qualify as violating the 2nd commandment? Does it make us feel peaceful when we sit in a garden with fat baby winged angels playing flutes and harbs? Is that feeling perhaps analogous with a statue of buddha?

 

[Sabertooth]

those are interesting finds but do these not qualify as violating the 2nd commandment?

That is why the Holy Spirit told me that I should steer clear of them.

Does it make us feel peaceful when we sit in a garden with fat baby winged angels playing flutes and harbs? Is that feeling perhaps analogous with a statue of buddha?

No, quite the opposite.

 

[Not David]

That is why the Holy Spirit told me that I should steer clear of them.

No, quite the opposite.

What if the Holy Spirit tells me to get icons and venerate them?

 

[Tolworth John]

Today the rules are different

Yes Jesus taught us that we are to worship God in Spirit and in Truth.

An idol isn't just a physical image, it can also be an non material image. That video game that distractes one from worship, the demanding job that eats into ones tome for private and/or corperate worship, those tunes one cannot get out of ones head when at church etc.

 

[Sabertooth]

What if the Holy Spirit tells me to get icons and venerate them?

Like everything else, check it against your Bible [1 John 4:1-3]. If it passes that, then go for it.

 

[tdidymas]

the 2nd commandment (Exodus 2:4) says "You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth." The context is idol worship and I get that but for Israel this was a serious law and you didn't make statues of God or angels or demons regardless of it's intent because people of that time were predisposed to idol worship and the mere presence of one would be a strong temptation. The first commandment actually is talking about idol worship and the 2nd is about making idols.

Today the rules are different and if I have a little statue of an angel in my garden I am not in the least bit tempted to start worshiping it yet it is explicitly violating the 2nd commandment (no I didn't make it but the principle still holds) . Is it wrong for me to have this statue in my garden?

There were two statues of Cherubim (angels) in the Holy of Holies. If God prohibited statues, then the statues and images in the artifacts in the temple violated the law. No, God ordered those things, and gave the gifts of art to the people who made them, as the scripture says He did. God does not contradict Himself. He doesn't say one thing one day and something contrary later. Therefore, the law is not prohibiting statues, but rather the worship of them. It prohibits making images for the purpose of worshiping something other than God.
TD

 

[Afra]

“You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. You shall not worship them or serve them;"

The prohibition is not against any likeness whatsoever - it is against making an idol (in any form) and worshipping it. It cannot be understood to prohibit any images whatsoever - the Lord Himself commanded images to be made for the Tabernacle and temple - oxen, pomegranates, cherubim, etc. He would not prohibit something by commandment then turn around and tell people to do that very thing.

We need to be aware of our tendencies, true, and guard our hearts, and so on. But an image is not automatically an idol.

Yes, but Scripture is to be interpreted to prohibit the spiritual practices of members of other denominations, while authorizing one's own practices.