Can I loose my Salvation?

Avenged Sevenfold · May 18, 2004

JeffreyLloyd said:
Reject God, reject Christ and you will lose your salvation. Salvation is something we must work at. Or as Saint Paul says:

"Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed--not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence--continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.

Do everything without complaining or arguing, 15so that you may become blameless and pure, children of God without fault in a crooked and depraved generation, in which you shine like stars in the universe as you hold out the word of life--in order that I may boast on the day of Christ that I did not run or labor for nothing.

But even if I am being poured out like a drink offering on the sacrifice and service coming from your faith, I am glad and rejoice with all of you. So you too should be glad and rejoice with me." - Philippians 2:12-18

if someone rejects God and Jesus I doubt they were even "Saved" every time I tried to live the worldly life again I would get a nagging in my soul to go back to Jesus. if I was not really saved I would not care. remember your saved by grace not by works lest any man should boast.

Zirkon · May 18, 2004

Here is a good place to do your own research. This chapter of the Bible changed my life: Matthew 7.

ChildofGod2004 · May 20, 2004

Avenged Sevenfold said:
once your saved can you get un-saved? and once your saved will drinking and looking at things your not saposed to send you to hell after your saved?

Yes!!! Yes!!! Yes!!! It will send u to hell. For there will be NO SIN in heaven.

Matt 15:18-19, Romans 1:25-32, 1 Cor 6:9-11 (In vs 11 ...Such WERE some of U...Amen!!!), Gal 5:16-24.

Well Thank God SIN will Not be in heaven.

Hope I helped u.

Serapha · May 20, 2004

ChildofGod2004 said:
Avenged Sevenfold said:

once your saved can you get un-saved? and once your saved will drinking and looking at things your not saposed to send you to hell after your saved?

Yes!!! Yes!!! Yes!!! It will send u to hell. For there will be NO SIN in heaven.

Matt 15:18-19, Romans 1:25-32, 1 Cor 6:9-11 (In vs 11 ...Such WERE some of U...Amen!!!), Gal 5:16-24.

Well Thank God SIN will Not be in heaven.

Hope I helped u.

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HI there!

If you believe you were saved by grace, then why don't you believe God has the grace to keep you saved? If God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, isn't God's grace the same yesterday, today, and forever?

~serapha~

gigglegrl14 · May 21, 2004

no! you cannot get unsaved! well. my opinion. except for like Judas! um i don't think judas will be in heaven.

Avenged Sevenfold · May 21, 2004

mawuvi said:
Where did you get this idea that onced you are saved that is it? There is nothing like that in the Bible. The only time you can be sure you are saved is on your deathbed and your conscience is at peace with God. Then you can utter Paul's words"I have fought the good fight, I have kept the faith..... etc" Until then alluta continua as we have a fight against invisible powers in heavenly places and on earth which prompted Christ to teach us to pray "Deliver me from temptation and from evil"

Trust me you can love salvation just as soon you get it. If you doubt this give the Apostle Judas Ischariot a call, he would tell you all about it.

BTW we all go to hell as it is the common grave. The Bible makes it clear Jesus was also in hell.

I will never leave you nor forsake you.....remember that?

Debi1967 · May 21, 2004

Avenged Sevenfold said:
if someone rejects God and Jesus I doubt they were even "Saved" every time I tried to live the worldly life again I would get a nagging in my soul to go back to Jesus. if I was not really saved I would not care. remember your saved by grace not by works lest any man should boast.

Yes You are Saved by Grace but we have the Hope of Salvation.....The word Hope is all over scripture....why would you have to Hope for something that is a guarantee? You don't.....

Rafael · May 21, 2004

gigglegrl14 said:
no! you cannot get unsaved! well. my opinion. except for like Judas! um i don't think judas will be in heaven.

I know you mean well, but this is the problem we get into when we try and judge for God. Even judging Judas is not our business because only God knows how much was given to Judas and the measure, if any, of faith that was given. By what a person is given as their measure will they be judged, but we do not give that measure. Only God does and only He is able to give righteous judgment. Every time man discusses once saved always saved, they forget about God's promise to them IF they obey, and start to imagine all sorts of things that only God knows for sure. If we will do as scripture tells, we will bear some fruit, maybe not even a lot, but maybe just the fruit of our lips, but only God know how much has been poured into that vessel. A baby or a disabled mentally handicapped person will surely be judged according to God's great love and mercy - so shall we all, but only God knows who are the elect. He sees the end from the begining at the same moment, but we can hardly imagine what that would be like. So we let God judge others and we judge ourselves, as the scriptures tells us to do, We cannot just say I believe in God and expect to be saved. We have to be really a new creature in Christ, with a new heart that is eager to do the things God wants us to do. As Jeffrey said, we are to work out our salvation with fear and trembling, and check this verse:

2Co 13:5 Make a test of yourselves, if you are in the faith; make certain of yourselves. Or are you not conscious in yourselves that Jesus Christ is in you, if you are truly Christs?

Lu 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

Jas 2:19 You have the belief that God is one, and you do well: the evil spirits have the same belief, shaking with fear.

Don't worry, God will not lose one person from His hand that is supposed to be saved. Meanwhile we don't know these things, but do have faith in God that He will keep His promises and be faithful even when we fall....because He helps us get back up.

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the masters use, and prepared unto every good work.

Ps 119:9 Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word.

Co 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

1Jo 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Lynn73 · May 21, 2004

The only time you can be sure you are saved is on your deathbed and your conscience is at peace with God.

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1Jo 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Your statement doesn't seem to square with Scripture which says that we can know we have eternal life right now, not on our deathbed.

Salvation is something we must work at.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Avenged Sevenfold said:

once your saved can you get un-saved? and once your saved will drinking and looking at things your not saposed to send you to hell after your saved?

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Click to expand...

Avenged Sevenfold said:
Avenged Sevenfold said:

Yes!!! Yes!!! Yes!!! It will send u to hell. For there will be NO SIN in heaven.

Click to expand...

When we accept Christ as our Savior, all our sins are forgiven. There will be no sin in heaven because Jesus' blood makes those who believe in Him clean. We wear robes provided by His righteosness, not ours. When He died on the cross, all of our sins were in the future since we hadn't been born yet. He died for all the sin we commit during our whole life. If we slip and fall after salvation we go to Him and ask forgiveness according to 1 John 1:9. A true Christian will not want to live a life of sin. If someone sins over and over and over and it never bothers them, I have to question whether that person really knows the Lord. I don't believe that we lose our salvation when we fall short. That would mean we have to get born again and again and again or resaved over and over and the Bible doesn't teach that. Or it means once you lose it, you can't get it back ever. Tell me, have you lived a totally sinless life since accepting Christ as Savior? Do you think you're going to hell then?

John 6:37-40
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

PetraFan007 · May 21, 2004

That list by debewebi is extremely depressing. NO ASSUMPTION OF SALVATION? That sounds WRONG to me. Why shouldn't I be sure of my own salvation? I wouldn't be able to function if I didn't assume I was saved. So depressing...

Debi1967 · May 22, 2004

I John 5: 1-12
Faith in the Son of God

1Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. 2This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. 3This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, 4for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.
6This is the one who came by water and blood--Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. 7For there are three that testify: 8the[1] Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement. 9We accept man's testimony, but God's testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart. Anyone who does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.

It is one thing to take a scripture and say here look at what it says....it proves that all you have to do is this but if you read it in context you will see the context of which that scripture was meant to be in.

Petra Fan said:
That list by debewebi is extremely depressing. NO ASSUMPTION OF SALVATION? That sounds WRONG to me. Why shouldn't I be sure of my own salvation? I wouldn't be able to function if I didn't assume I was saved. So depressing

Why is it depressing to you it is not to me....It means that I am having to constantly remember the Lord that is not depressing that is Joyous to me. How is it depressing to say in order to be with me I expaect your devotion until the end and this how I want you to do it.....I do not understand that.....I am more than willing to please him because I know that the Lord makes me happier than I have ever been....Even if I didn't have the promise of the after-life I would still do as was asked because he blesses me in so many ways right now for my Faith and the Works I do....I am happy not depressed....I am closer to Him than I have ever been in my whole life, and that makes me feel as though I am walking on air sometimes....And if walking on air if half of what I am going to feel like when I get there then I want to please him more and more....

And you are right I do not assume what is only the right of the Lord to give we are warned not to do that it is Blashemy.....

In Christ
Debi

Mr.Cheese · May 22, 2004

I moved this thread here from the Questions about Christianity forum since it was started by a Christian.

Pondering · May 25, 2004

Caelum said:
ax7, nice name btw, I love the band, even though they're a secular band(or am I wrong? i'd love to be wrong right now )

First off, ask a baptist if you can lose salvation, he will deny its possibility. Ask a Calvinist, same reply. Ask a lutheran, catholic, and you can lose your salvation.

Do your own research... You're doing the right thing by questioning, questioning, questioning. Something I don't feel enough Christians do, which can only strengthen their faith in my opinion.

Nate

I agree with you Nate.
Many different denominations will answer this question differently. I think one of the reasons is because there are a lot of verses (if we are playing the 'proof texting' game again) that support both answers. The impressive lists of verses in this thread demonstrate this. Generally we will agree with one lot, and find ways of explaining the other in accordance with other core doctrines of our denomination. For example the view on how you get salvation in the first place will usually influence heavily weather you think you can lose it. At the end of the day (if you are keeping a tally ) I am slowly swaying to the other way of looking at it from the way I saw it previously . Paul does seem to support both views. Even in the overall meta narrative that stands above the proof texting debates you could make a case both ways. SO...
1-I wonder if we are asking the wong question. Are we really asking what we can get away with? instead of what glorifies God? Sometimes I think we are.
2-It makes me realise how little we are prepared to embrace the mystery, and tention that holds together most of the paradoxes in the Scriptures. I used to think this was a cop-out. Now I don't. I don't actually think that it was a question that was in Pauls head, which is why he didn't answer it. "Why," Paul might wonder, "if you suddenly came into the live, vibrant, dynamic life threatening and risking community of believers, bolstered by the testemony of those who actually saw and walked with Jesus, would you walk away, or go back to your old life?" Most of the verse about losing your salvation, or not being able to lose it, are in the context of other arguments. We are looking for a final statment on something that wasn't addressed in those terms.
If I had to nail my colors to the mast I would say that "I like mystery."
In terms of talking to believers, if someone was struggling with their acceptance, and with guilt, and believing they were loved I would point to all the assurance passage that pepper the NT. If they were knowingly walking into things they shouldn't, I would point to all of the persevering to the end, and warning passages.
Sorry if this isn't concrete enough.

May Gods Grace be enough for you, or his discpline be enough to bring you back, which ever situation caused the original thread question.

Under the Mercy
Pondering

PaladinValer · May 25, 2004

It is possible; entirely possible IMO, to loose one's salvation. There have been those very committed Christians who, fully knowing the orthodox understanding of the faith, have left Christianity. IMO, they probably have lost their salvation, but in the end, only God can truly know whether a person will go to heaven or not. We must all wait until the Resurrection and the Judgment to find out our final destination.

In addition, I should quickly remind folks that the original Calvinist doctrines, which were clearly OSAS, also stated that it was still impossible to know whether you yourself were saved or not. One of the requirements to join a Calvinist church back then and still in many cases today was to prove through your faith by works, you showed "elements" and "evidence" that you were one of the Elect, as only the Elect in Calvinism can be members of the Church. This isn't so as much now in many Calvinist denominations (PCUSA for example I believe), but in others, it remains the same.

There just is no 100% infallible way to tell where you'll end up. It is one of the Great Mysteries of our Christian faith comprehendable only by God.

TenPin · May 26, 2004

My thread on being Maxed Out For Christ, I think it is quite relevant: http://www.christianforums.com/t687334

Matthew 24:9-13

"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

There is no place for complacency. If we think that we won't be decieved or that our love will never grow cold then we are at our most vulnerable.

The fact that it says, "the love of most will grow cold" should concern you.

Revelation 3:15-17

I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! So, because you are lukewarm--neither hot nor cold--I am about to spit you out of my mouth. You say, 'I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.' But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked.

Matthew 6:19-21,24

"Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.

Ainesis · May 28, 2004

Avenged Sevenfold said:
once your saved can you get un-saved? and once your saved will drinking and looking at things your not saposed to send you to hell after your saved?

BTW Im new here

a7x

Hi Avenged Sevenfold,

I do believe that salvation can be lost. Losing salvation is not a matter of simply sinning (although anything that displeases God is a big thing). It is a willful rejection of the Truth and a determined choice to do what we want at the expense of what God says. No one "loses" salvation the way we may lose our keys. They knowingly walk away. It is a willful choice.

However, terms of what send you to Hell in such a case, I do not believe that it is the fact that we may sin after salvation. It is the condition of the heart. As we live this Christian life, God is transforming us into the imafe of His Son. He is making us more like Him and part of how this is done is in showing us the areas of our life that are not pleasing to Him. At that time, we must repent and acknowledge those things are sinful and turn away from them. While there should be immediate obedience, I am the first to admit that sometimes God has to bang me over the ehad a bit to get it.

So, we may not lose sinful desires right away. We may even have sinful ways that we do not realize are sinful. One thing that I noticed after salvation is that I could no longer sin without conscience. I could no longer enjoy sin. It bothered me in ways that it just hadn't before.

Just keep your eyes on God, for He is faithful to finish the work that has been started in you.

Romanbear · May 28, 2004

Hi avenged sevenfold;

According to all 7 of these witnesses including Christ You can loose your salvation.

Paul;
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Heb 6:7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
Heb 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briars is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
Heb 6:9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
Peter
2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
James;
Jam 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Jam 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
Christ;
Mat 18:32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
Mat 18:33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellow servant, even as I had pity on thee?
Mat 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
Mat 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Moses
Exo 32:32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.
Exo 32:33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.Exo 32:32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.
Exo 32:33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.
Ezekiel
Eze 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
David
Psa 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
Psa 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

7 witnesses They all say the same thing even Christ.
Help me out here so many say that we are saved once and for all
In Christ;
Romanbear

dadof10 · May 31, 2004

Help me out here so many say that we are saved once and for all

Romanbear,

And they are wrong. Take the case of Abraham as proof. Paul states in Romans that Abraham is justified when he "believed God". Protestants point to this as an example of salvation by faith alone. If Abraham was saved forever when he believed God, why did he need to be re-justified (for lack of a better word) when he offered Isaac on the altar?

"Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?" (Jas. 2:21)

Justification/salvation is an ongoing process, not a one time event. As C.S. Lewis said, (paraphrasing) at every moment of our lives, with every decision we make, we are either turning into something capable of enjoying Heaven (salvation) or the opposite.

God Bless,
Mark

Bob L · Jun 1, 2004

First things first. When the Bible talks about being saved, it means when you die. I forget the word but I think it is aphormistically. When the author's say you are saved or have salvation, they mean if you continue on the path you are going. If you read the Bible thoroughly this is very evident. A common example of this in today's world would be like this advice for a saleperson: "If you call upon thirty clients a day, you're a millionaire!" Now you and I both understand the meaning of this advice. Certainly if our would-be salesperson knocks on thrity doors in one day the thirtieth one doesn't have a $1,000,000.00 check waiting for him. But we also understand that if our same salesperson continued on in this manner he or she could rightly expect to be a success at some point down the road. It's the same way with many quotes in the Bible.But it is not taught that way to anyone and here is why:

The REALLY big problem with the entire debate on predestination of salvation is that we have completely misunderstood Paul's writings. Especially in the beginning of Ephesians. Calvinists believe that we are predestined to heaven or hell solely based on God's will. Arminians believe that we are predestined to heaven or hell based on God's foreknowledge from the beginning of time of how we would choose to or not to follow him during our lifetimes. But they both believe we are predestined. And that's where it all falls apart. We were never predestined to begin with. You can't prove scripturally that either side is wrong if you first believe we are predestined either to heaven or hell.

I have alot more I could write about this misunderstanding of scripture but it probably belongs in a new thread. Suffice it to say that scripture is right when it says you cannot lose your salvation because it happens when you die and then you're not alive anymore to lose it. And scripture is right that it depends on your actions when you are alive. Not that you can ever be good enough to be able to demand salvation from God for how good of a person you are, but that you are responsible for humbling yourself, realizing that you are weak and only God is good, and accept his gift of salvation for you.

And if you continue on, realizing in humility that you are weak and it is only through God's grace that he forgives you of all your sins you can be "assured" of your reward in heaven, as Paul was.

I know that I have not proofed any of this with scripture here but as it is very late I will save that for another day.

Curt · Jun 1, 2004

Quote:
God's foreknowledge from the beginning of time of how we would choose to or not to follow him during our lifetimes.

This is the simplicity of The Gospel which is written for the simple to understand. God is not a respecter of persons, and He didn't write His love letter to us in such a way that we need intellectual genius' to figure out His instructions. The blessings, and cursings are the signs at the fork in the road that we come to at the age of understanding, and tell us what we will find along the way if we choose to take that road. God makes it simple for us so everyone can understand, and we are each one responsible for our own choices. satan is the epitomy of ego, and that's why he appeals so strongly to mans ego. In all of history where were all the institutions of higher learning? And who created them? God tells us how to prepare for our future.

Prov 3:5-8 TRUST IN THE LORD WITH ALL THINE HEART, LEAN NOT TO YOUR OWN UNDERSTANDING, BE NOT WISE IN YOUR OWN EYES
.
II Tim 3:16-17 ALL SCRIPTURE BY INSPIRATION OF GOD, AND PROFITABLE, THAT THE MAN OF GOD BE PERFECT

2 Pet 1:20 NO PROPHECY OF THE SCRIPTURE IS OF ANY PRIVATE INTERPRETATION

2 Sam 14:14 NEITHER DOTH GOD RESPECT ANY PERSON

Job 37:24 HE RESPECTETH NOT ANY THAT ARE WISE OF HEART.

Christ while he was here didn't start any theological colleges, seminaries, or institutions He went out and led His disciples through life. And Christ told the rest of us to take up our crosses and follow Him in total obedience to God's will for us, and He will let us know what that will is if we will seek His face.

Can I loose my Salvation?

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