Can I be an American Baptist without believing in OSAS?

[SkyWriting]

Hello ChristianForCats. Perhaps it is a difference in terminology. 'OSAS' and 'you can never stop being a Christian' are IMHO rather empty terms.

Jesus said that unless a person was born again they could not see or enter the Kingdom of God (John chapter 3).

'Being a Christian' was not an expression Jesus used, you would have to define what you mean by it. I have not encountered a Baptist Church which used that term.

As @SkyWriting has posted Ephesians 2:8-9 It is by grace we are saved not by works. Anyone who says you're saved by grace but lost by works (or the lack of them) is in my opinion preaching a different gospel. A works based salvation does not itself work.

It's because someone is saved that they produce works, having an attitude of gratitude to the Lord who forgave and saved them. Sometimes a believer can have less fellowship with God, less peace in their heart because of sin, but this does not equate loss of salvation, the believer has crossed from death to life (John 5:24).

Instead of 'OSAS' think 'the Lord our security' (Proverbs 3:26)
Instead of 'Being a Christian' think being born again. If anyone is in Christ they are a new creation, the old has gone and the new has come!

God Bless

What is a Christian? - Hockliffe Street Baptist Church, Leighton ..
leightonbaptists.org.uk › who-we-are › what-is-a..

Being a Christian is about turning faith into action. All Christians find that their faith develops as they put it into practice.

 

[GodLovesCats]

Jesus said that unless a person was born again they could not see or enter the Kingdom of God (John chapter 3).

'Being a Christian' was not an expression Jesus used, you would have to define what you mean by it. I have not encountered a Baptist Church which used that term.

Christian = born again. What I worry about is people who decide not to believe in and love the triune God anymore. When their hearts tun away from God, they are not Christians anymore and will go to hell when they die because they lost the faith. That is where I get stuck on the OSAS teaching.

Jesus used the word "believer." The name Christian came much later.

 

[lismore]

Christian = born again.

Hello! Thanks for your reply. I have met and indeed am related to persons who are in churches, I don't believe they're born again. They can call themselves many things, but salvation is a work of God, of Grace, not of man or works. God Bless You

 

[JM]

So can I be an American Baptist?

Most Baptists will allow you to keep your membership but not renew it when it expires. Once a Baptist not Always a Baptist.

 

[actionsub]

Why not actually ask a pastor from this denomination.

Barring that, you can ask me, a former student at a General Baptist (similar to Free Will) seminary. Both Free Will and General Baptists hold to a soteriological position called "Reformed Arminianism", which seeks to hew a little closer to the actual positions of Arminius than those of John Wesley.
As such, they do believe you can lose your salvation per Hebrews 6. However, once one apostasizes to the point that their salvation is lost, they've reached a point of no return as far as repentance.

As far as the American Baptist denomination (ABCUSA), they would officially hold to an OSAS position, but the topic will likely NEVER come up in a sermon, etc.

 

[actionsub]

What I worry about is people who decide not to believe in and love the triune God anymore. When their hearts tun away from God, they are not Christians anymore and will go to hell when they die because they lost the faith.

This is the Free Will Baptist teaching in a nutshell.

 

[GodLovesCats]

This is the Free Will Baptist teaching in a nutshell.

So that is really the only difference?

What about the foot washing ordinance? I don't believe in it at all.

 

[9Rock9]

Barring that, you can ask me, a former student at a General Baptist (similar to Free Will) seminary. Both Free Will and General Baptists hold to a soteriological position called "Reformed Arminianism", which seeks to hew a little closer to the actual positions of Arminius than those of John Wesley.
As such, they do believe you can lose your salvation per Hebrews 6. However, once one apostasizes to the point that their salvation is lost, they've reached a point of no return as far as repentance.

As far as the American Baptist denomination (ABCUSA), they would officially hold to an OSAS position, but the topic will likely NEVER come up in a sermon, etc.

So, under Reformed Arminianism, once you apostasize, your heart is already too hardened for you to repent?

If someone renounces their faith, but later repents and comes back to it, did they lose their salvation and can they get it back?

 

[actionsub]

So, under Reformed Arminianism, once you apostasize, your heart is already too hardened for you to repent?

If someone renounces their faith, but later repents and comes back to it, did they lose their salvation and can they get it back?

In a word, yes.
If someone renounces their faith but later repents, however, they may have stepped close to the line of losing their salvation; however, under Reformed Arminianism, the sinner who repents did not lose their salvation by definition.

 

[9Rock9]

In a word, yes.
If someone renounces their faith but later repents, however, they may have stepped close to the line of losing their salvation; however, under Reformed Arminianism, the sinner who repents did not lose their salvation by definition.

I can see that. I am Southern Baptist, so I belong to the OSAS camp, but the Reformed Arminian view also makes sense. I think this topic is what pushed me towards Calvinism, as I think of Wesleyan Armininism, but I think I will give Arminianism another look.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

That doesn't indicate once saved always saved. It indicates if we have belief we are assured of eternal fellowship.

I agree.

 

[Jared MacNeill]

I read enough about Free Will Baptists to decide I can't be one of them, but the belief that once saved you can never stop being a Christian, has been disproven too many times to count. The FWB are correct about that. So I am stuck between Free Will and American Baptist.

The ABC says it supports members having a variety of theological beliefs, but not before defining a Baptist belief as OSAS (meaning you can't lose your salvation). So can I be an American Baptist?

I might be able to chime in here .

I’d say yes be I am a member of a Baptist church and it is where I feel I fit the most but I don’t believe (osas) be Paul says in Roman’s 6:1-6 “What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?
Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection,knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.”

sound really clear that we should keep sinning.

I can go on about other little things but, the real question is “are you being fed?,do you feel comfortable?,is the church make question the way you live and make you want to live more like Christ?”

I don’t believe we can reach perfect sanctification on this world but I do believe we should thrive for it . Anyhow the choice is ultimately yours , may god guide you in the correct direction.

 

[now faith]

This is the Free Will Baptist teaching in a nutshell.

No it is not,
I grew up, and was saved and Baptized in the Free Will Baptist Church.
My Dad was a Pastor, who Preached and Worked with people who had fallen back into sin.
Never once did He tell someone they had fallen from Gods grace and were destined for Hell.
He believed in the Father Son and Holy Ghost, and did not exclude Pennacostals from any Church He Pastored, or Charismatics for that matter.
I do not believe He was a Cessionest, how be it He had a negative experience when He was young with a service He attended that was out of control.
The topic was rarely spoken about, as far as once in grace always in grace.
Our Services were Spirit filled, and His preaching was anointed with power.
In some ways not all Charles Lawson reminds me of my Dad.
The Church Doors were open for every one, yet He would not allow non Baptist in the pulpit.
To quote his quote: he would say God is not the author of confusion.
After He passed i visited other Baptist, one I stayed for a couple of years.
I simply could not stand the Legalism of the independent fundamentalists, who obsessed about Gods chastising us and the constant drone of you need salvation messages.
When your preaching to all 20 members Three times a week, and running off newcomers over Shorts and Levi's the Dogma is the problem.
There are many Charismatics as well who cannot reconcile the verses in Hebrews, and the book of Revelation.
For me it is just a useless debate, Yet when a Christian turns to Satan I would not say He was not saved in the first place.
look at Judas He performed miracles along with the other Eleven until He betrayed our Lord.
This was the prophecy many years before Christ came.
So thats how I personally look at it, it seems impossible to me, but that is why its called Free Will.

 

[actionsub]

No it is not,
I grew up, and was saved and Baptized in the Free Will Baptist Church.
My Dad was a Pastor, who Preached and Worked with people who had fallen back into sin.
Never once did He tell someone they had fallen from Gods grace and were destined for Hell.

It's a pretty nuanced detail, and one pretty much has to put in a lot of effort to actually lose their salvation. In practice, you'd never hear such a thing outside of an ordination council! To be honest, such a person who had apostasized wouldn't give your pastor father the time of day, nor would they even ask the question. As long as they're concerned about it, they haven't completely apostasized. So your dad was quite correct without contradicting this point of doctrine in the least.