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Can creationists explain thermodynamics to me

Discussion in 'Creation & Evolution' started by perplexed, May 27, 2006.

  1. Micaiah

    Micaiah Well-Known Member

    +35
    Christian
    I'm seeking a response from the Perplexed in his own words. He seems to be a full bottle on the subject.
     
  2. perplexed

    perplexed Senior Member

    +96
    Seeker
    Don't pretend that you could understand a robust refutation. I bet you cannot explain equation 7.9 in that article. If you can I will say you won.
     
  3. Micaiah

    Micaiah Well-Known Member

    +35
    Christian
    And SLOT proves common descent is wrong?
     
  4. perplexed

    perplexed Senior Member

    +96
    Seeker
    Explain equation 7.9 in your own words. Then explain how you could connect it to common descent.
     
  5. Nooj

    Nooj Senior Veteran

    +135
    Other Religion
    AU-Greens
    I don't mean to be rude, but why don't you do the same? Posting some links and asking people to refute them isn't considered a good debating technique. People spend a lot of time on their responses. I'm sure they'd want a personal face to discuss things with.
     
  6. Micaiah

    Micaiah Well-Known Member

    +35
    Christian
    You said if I could explain equation 7.9 I won the argument. No strings attached.

    I raised the stakes. I am asking you to accept that evolution is false if I can provide the explanation. As before, no strings attached.

    You seem to be running scared.

    Double or nothing.

    BTW. I still haven't heard you give any explanations. I don't think you can.

    People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
     
  7. Micaiah

    Micaiah Well-Known Member

    +35
    Christian
    My intention here was to demonstrate the hypocrisy of the OP. So far I have been proven correct.
     
  8. perplexed

    perplexed Senior Member

    +96
    Seeker
    Equation 7.9 cannot be applied to evolution.
     
  9. Micaiah

    Micaiah Well-Known Member

    +35
    Christian
    Not much point in progressing the discussion given your lack of understanding of the topic.
     
  10. perplexed

    perplexed Senior Member

    +96
    Seeker
    And what don't I understand?
     
  11. Micaiah

    Micaiah Well-Known Member

    +35
    Christian
    Don't you agree that this comment indicates you do not understand the equation.
     
  12. perplexed

    perplexed Senior Member

    +96
    Seeker
    How so?
     
  13. Micaiah

    Micaiah Well-Known Member

    +35
    Christian
    I hope the irony of this is not wasted on our lurkers. The OP starts off making fun of YEC's by implying they could not explain SLOT. I gave a general overview of the subject with some links to support the comments.

    The discussions on this topic get quite technical to those not versed in the various areas of science. When confronted with the responses competent YEC's on the topic Perplexed becomes mute, and asks me to explain what it all means. Obviously he hasn't a clue, in spite of the belittling insinuations made at the start of the thread.
     
  14. Edx

    Edx Senior Veteran

    +106
    Atheist
    Or...

    Maybe he wants you to show that you understand all that which you posted.

    So instead of spending a lot of time refuting it all, all of which you will dismiss out of hand because you very likely dont understand any of it, he is trying to get you to engage in some discussion where you can show you understand the topic and that you will understand the refutation.
     
  15. perplexed

    perplexed Senior Member

    +96
    Seeker
    Perhaps I was not clear. I think you don't understand the Maths involved so there is no point in listening to your opinions or discussing the topic with you. To check this thought I was trying to test you. What is wrong with getting someone to show they know what they are talking about?
     
  16. Frumious Bandersnatch

    Frumious Bandersnatch Contributor

    +306
    Unitarian
    I can explain all of the equations if you would like, but before I do both equation 7.7 and 7.8 are glaringly false by his definition of the type of system he is considering and there is a large hole in his reasoning regarding free energy, ice forming and polymerization reactions. After you can tell me what his errors in 7.7 and 7.8 are and explain to me the problem with his reasoning we can continue the discussion. BTW his arguments while false may be relevant to a discussion of abiogenesis but not to a discussion of common descent.

    Added in edit, of course the earth is not a closed system near equilbrium and even in closed systems that are not near equilibrium order can spontaneously arise.

    The Frumious Bandersnatch
     
  17. Micaiah

    Micaiah Well-Known Member

    +35
    Christian
    The first chapter lays down some of the preliminary work which is developed further in the following two chapters not yet posted. In these chapters the mathematical treatment of entrpoy is applied chemical reactions that are relevant to processes that occur in the DNA. This clearly has implications to evolution.

    Perplexed has dispensed with the need to provide a complete and detailed discussion on the subject, pinning the argument won or lost on a single equation. It seems logical to me to extend this approach to the whole argument developed in the three chapters and conclude evolution is false again based on the equation 7.9 test case.

    As stated before, I have yet to see Perplexed demonstrate that he has the slightest clue on the topic, or that he is any position to critique the YEC position. It seems he is strongly reliant of others on this forum to provide the technical support he lacks.

    As I said before, people in glass houses shouldn't stow throwns.
     
  18. perplexed

    perplexed Senior Member

    +96
    Seeker
    Sorry chapter 8 discusses the the formation of DNA and not the processes which occur in DNA. In either case it has nothing to do with common descent.

    I beg you to show you understand equation 7.9
    pretty please just show you know what the deltas mean (the triangles).
     
  19. Lucretius

    Lucretius Senior Veteran

    +189
    Atheist
    Single
    US-Democrat
    7-9 shouldn't be that hard to explain. I learned all of meanings of the various letters in a high school physics class.

    Then again, it looks like Micaiah is just going to keep repeating what he has done; and everyone else is just going to keep asking him what 7.9 means. I don't think he has any intention of teling us.
     
  20. Frumious Bandersnatch

    Frumious Bandersnatch Contributor

    +306
    Unitarian
    That is a very loose definition. Entropy is a measure of the degeneracy of the energy of a system. Strictly speaking Entropy is Not Disorder.

    All natural processes increase entropy except possibly for very small systems over very short time scales as this article discusses.

    No it doesn't or if you think it does please answer the question I posed earlier as to exactly how it does.
     
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