Can Christians lose there salvation?

[Chebar]

Its not like loosing your car keys. oops my salvation is gone. Only God knows , Matt 7:21 says very clearly not all who call on Him shall enter into heaven. That is why we are to be working on this salvation thing with fear and trembling.
Once saved always saved is a lie from satan.Many are deceived into thinking they are ok.
You know if you are and if there is a question in your heart get before God on your face and He will resore your heart. No Man knows the intentions of ones heart only God.

 

[Luchnia]

Yes indeed, I have found OSAS to be a most interesting study when weighing it against God's word. The only way that one could even come to this conclusion is by omitting hundreds of text that are in direct opposition to the theory itself, and in many cases even the very words of Jesus have to be omitted.

I think it is quite evident this is how this theory is arrived at, but never sure why anyone would want to do that unless it is needed in order to weaken the spirit to the state that it is believed there are no requirements to salvation. This would allow one to make God liable for their actions. It is like putting the blame on God for everything.

Word up!

 

[Lighthouse Keeper]

Hello, greetings in the Lords name.
I believe that if you are born again(saved) then the Holy Spirit takes up residence in you and that remains sealed until physical death.
You can ignore the Holy Spirit as one can ignore the need for food, but as we know that leads to no growth, no strength, no life!
I thank God that , like the human body has hunger as a warning mechanism, the Holy Spirit has a great LOVE for us and will never let us go.

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

Great post, everyone. It sure does clear up much and helps to sharpen us all. It is evident by the Word of The Spirit that not only can man lose salvation, many have over time. We can see that man can even fall into apostasy beyond the point of return and be doomed to eternal torments.

Word up!

Did King David lose is salvation when he conmitted adultry or murder?

not according to Hebrews 11:32...and many more verse of david resurection during the miniual kingdom and his rule of earth during those 1000 years

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

Hello, greetings in the Lords name.
I believe that if you are born again(saved) then the Holy Spirit takes up residence in you and that remains sealed until physical death.
You can ignore the Holy Spirit as one can ignore the need for food, but as we know that leads to no growth, no strength, no life!
I thank God that , like the human body has hunger as a warning mechanism, the Holy Spirit has a great LOVE for us and will never let us go.

love your thoughts but how about verses from God's word...

eph 1:13 H.S. sealing us in Christ
eph 2:4-6 God making us sit in the heavenlys
phil 3:9, hebrews 11:1, eph 2:4-9 by grace are we saved

 

[Tawhano]

Matthew 24:13
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

If those who endure will be saved then what happens to those who don’t endure?

Hebrews 3:6
But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

If we are the house of Christ IF we hold fast the confidence then what happens if we don’t hold fast?

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now [it is] high time to awake out of sleep: for now [is] our salvation nearer than when we believed.

At the end, nearer than when we first believed. We have the earnest of the Holy Spirit but we have not yet received salvation. Those who are sealed, endure and hold fast till the return of Christ will receive this promise.

Revelations 12:10
And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

If our salvation comes at the end and we can not lose our salvation once we are sealed by the Holy Spirit then why all the warnings?

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

Matthew 24:13
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

If those who endure will be saved then what happens to those who don’t endure?

Hebrews 3:6
But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

If we are the house of Christ IF we hold fast the confidence then what happens if we don’t hold fast?

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now [it is] high time to awake out of sleep: for now [is] our salvation nearer than when we believed.

At the end, nearer than when we first believed. We have the earnest of the Holy Spirit but we have not yet received salvation. Those who are sealed, endure and hold fast till the return of Christ will receive this promise.

Revelations 12:10
And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

If our salvation comes at the end and we can not lose our salvation once we are sealed by the Holy Spirit then why all the warnings?

Because God will not allow us to be tempted by more than we can bear........ 1 cor 10:13

James 1:2 but we are to count it joy when we fall into tempation ....why vs 3 worketh patience and vs 4 maturing work

So if we can still sin does that condemn us since Christ already paid for all sins according to 1 cor 15:2-4.......if God did not fulfill what he said then he is not God....so

Salavation has three tenses.....past, present, future

what do these do?

past eph 1:4, 1 cor 15:2-4 made this possible for us to be in present tense

present tense James 1, romans 10:14-17, ect..

future 1thes 5:23

 

[Luchnia]

Did King David lose is salvation when he conmitted adultry or murder?


>>>>>
This is simple and can be answered with a few questions. When someone murders are they a child of God? Do murderers inherit eternal life? Does the Holy Spirit murder?

Word up!

 

[Tawhano]

Don’t you just hate it when people quote your entire post and then answer only a small portion of it?

A Brethren IN CHRIST Said:
Because God will not allow us to be tempted by more than we can bear........
1 cor 10:13

Because of your lazy debating style (not meant as sarcasm but criticism) it is difficult to make out what point you are trying to convey. I can only assume that this is the answer to my question of “why all the warnings”? If it is then it makes no sense. We received the warnings because God will not tempt us beyond what we can handle? That still begs the question of why we are counseled to endure to the end if our salvation is secured.

A Brethren IN CHRIST Said:
past eph 1:4, 1 cor 15:2-4 made this possible for us to be in present tense

Again, if our salvation was secured long before we were born then why all the warnings?

A Brethren IN CHRIST Said:
present tense James 1, romans 10:14-17, ect..

Not sure where in James you think supports your point. Again Romans 10:14-17, how does that support your views?

Ya gotta love that rock solid scripture recorded in etc.

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

iN YOUR OPINION tAwHANO...

WARNING IS IN THE PRESENT TENSE SALVATION WHERE A BELIEVER CAN LIVE IN THE POSTION GOD HAS GIVEN HIM AND HE LIVES IN LIGHT TO THAT

OR

A BELIEVER CAN LIVE CARNALLY/FLESHHLY BUT IS STILL SAVED AND HE WILL BE HEBREWS 12:5-11(DISCIPLINED) SINCE HE IS AN ENEMY OF GOD DURING THIS BUT STILL A SON[GOD LIVES INSIDE]gAL 4:29 WHY THIS HAPPENS[WE ARE NOT ENTIRELY SAVED ONLY IN sPIRIT]1 TIM 1:16, gAL 5:16-17,rOMANS 8:5-13
2 TIM 3:12, 2 PETER 2:20-22,3:9

 

[Ken]

I may warn my child to not disobey, yet know that they will, but they do not cease to be my child just because they disobeyed.....

(John 6:37-40 NNAS) "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. {38} "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. {39} "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. {40} "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.""

(Rom 8:37-39 NNAS) But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. {38} For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, {39} nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

(Phil 1:6 NNAS) For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus."

blessings

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

Don’t you just hate it when people quote your entire post and then answer only a small portion of it?

Because of your lazy debating style (not meant as sarcasm but criticism) it is difficult to make out what point you are trying to convey. I can only assume that this is the answer to my question of “why all the warnings”? If it is then it makes no sense. We received the warnings because God will not tempt us beyond what we can handle? That still begs the question of why we are counseled to endure to the end if our salvation is secured.

Its Called Eternal life...or God's kind of life right know not after the rapture....we can experience a good life among the dark and perverse world

Again, if our salvation was secured long before we were born then why all the warnings?




Not sure where in James you think supports your point. Again Romans 10:14-17, how does that support your views?

Ya gotta love that rock solid scripture recorded in etc.

those verses are talking life right know not intial salvavtion

is it consistance to say we need to be saved everyday from ever lasting damnation or did Christ pay the price and died once for all sins .

And we need to learn to obey are father rules

 

[Northern Christian]

Yes, they can lose their salvation if they reject Jesus.

 

[Ben johnson]

A BELIEVER CAN LIVE CARNALLY/FLESHHLY BUT IS STILL SAVED AND HE WILL BE HEBREWS 12:5-11(DISCIPLINED) SINCE HE IS AN ENEMY OF GOD DURING THIS BUT STILL A SON[GOD LIVES INSIDE]gAL 4:29 WHY THIS HAPPENS[WE ARE NOT ENTIRELY SAVED ONLY IN sPIRIT]

Jesus said, "No good tree produces bad fruit, no bad tree produces good"; Paul says "those who PRACTICE these things SHALL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD". John writes, "he who practices righteousness IS righteous, he who practices unrighteousness is of the devil; by this the dhildren of God and children of the devil are exposed." How do you negate all of these, ABIC? Isn't "CARNALLY LIVING", defined as "continuing sinning willfully"? How do you remove the sting of verses like Heb10:26? "If we continue sinning willfully after having received TRUE/SAVED knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of fire that consumes the adversaries." How are all these Scriptures, WRONG?

is it consistance to say we need to be saved everyday from ever lasting damnation or did Christ pay the price and died once for all sins .

Gets back to, "WHAT IS SALVATION?" Salvation is "CHRIST-IN-US"; Jesus said, in Jn15: "Abide in Me, and I (will abide) in you." Is this "abiding-thing" a ONE-TIME-EVENT, or a DAILY WALK? Why do you think Paul says, in Col2:6, "As you have RECEIVED Christ, so walk IN Him."? Why do you think Jude says: "KEEP YOURSELVES in the love of God, awaiting the mercy of Christ to salvation"? Jd3:21

Read of "BORN AGAIN" in Romans 6; read of the "war between the old and the new" in Romans 7; read of the SOLUTION to that war in Romans 8 --- waliking in the flesh (which is death), or walking in the Spirit (which is life). It's not that we are SAVED every day, but rather that we abide IN salvation every day.

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

Do we[all believers] do this? putting on the new?

no ....but some do ...and some return..

according to 2 peter 2:20 For if after they[in context ... believers] have escaped the pollutions of the world through the [real good experiential ] knowledge of the Lord and saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein[the world in context], and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning[less mercy from God...OSN grew in knowledge].21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way[how to live godly] of righteousness, than after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22 But it happened unto them according to the true proverb, the dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire....proverbs 26:11

2 peter 3:9The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering to us-ward[christians..believers..ro 8:1] not willing[determined] that any[eph 1:4] should perish, but that all should come to repentance[changing of ones mind].

Gal 1:2 written to all brethren

Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit even sso it is now

Gal 5:16 This I say then, walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

so if it is not possible to be in the darkness why the encouragment to stay in the Spirit?

 

[Ben johnson]

so if it is not possible to be in the darkness why the encouragment to stay in the Spirit?

Oh it IS possible to "be in darkness", VERY possible; the difference between our beliefs, is that I understand "being-in-the-darkness" is UNSAVED. John3:19 Jesus says (some) men loved DARKNESS and hated the Light. Look at 1Jn1:6: "If we say we have fellowship with Him and yet WALK IN THE DARKNESS, we lie and do not practice the truth." Can you say that "such a darkness-walker" is SAVED? Can you?

Let's look at 2Pet2:20 (yours is an interesting "take"; I haven't talked with anyone before that said "they remained saved, though tangled/overcome"). You say "believers" --- I agree; there are THREE groups here, the FALSE TEACHERS and the FALSE PROPHETS, who NEVER cease from sin (14) and are SLAVES TO CORRUPTION (19); then there are the TRULY ESCAPED (ontos-apopheugo, vs 18; I understand this is the more credible Greek than "oligos-apopheugo", barely escaped.) You say, "[real good experiential ]". Excellent. "Epignosis" IS "experiential", cannot refer to "unsaved". Each of these words is used in ch1, to indicate TRUE-SAVED (same faith as Peter); apopheugo-escaped corruption through the epignosis-true-saved knowledge of the Kurios-Lord and Soter-Savior Jesus Christ. Word for word the same. Now, in ch2, they are "again entangled in the defilements and overcome"; can we assert they REMAIN SAVED? No. They WERE "dogs-n-pigs" (by virtue of the vomit/mire in which they dwelt), they RETURNED TO (epistrepho eis/epi) the vomit/mire and became dogs/pigs AGAIN. It says, "they are WORSE than BEFORE they KNEW (epiginosko) the way of righteousness." Worse than BEFORE they became believers. (How can a SAVED one be WORSE than BEFORE he was saved?) But verse 21 says they KNEW the way of righteousness, and epistrepho-ek-TURNED-AWAY-from-it! Epistrepho does convey a "spiritual turning/returning". The idea of "they never lost salvation" falls just as surely as the idea of "they were never really SAVED". Context says "they WERE saved, they became entangled and are now worse than BEFORE they were saved; they are dogs/pigs AGAIN, they have become UNSAVED. Again. Worse than they WERE, 'cause they KNEW the truth and REJECTED it...

2 peter 3:9The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering to us-ward[christians..believers..ro 8:1] not willing[determined] that any[eph 1:4] should perish, but that all should come to repentance[changing of ones mind].

The "determined" is actually more forceful in the Greek. God wills, meaning DESIRES our salvation in verses like Jn6:40 ("thelema"); but DECREE (boulema) is much rarer; what God DESIRES, MAY happen; what God DECREES, HAPPENS. In 2Pet3:9 it says: "God does not DECREE (boulemai) any to perish, but MAKES-ROOM (choreo) for ALL to repent.

Now, if you're going to quote Galatians (and I'm very glad you did!), please help me to understand 3:1-3, 5:1-7. Here we have those who RECEIVED the Gospel and BELIEVED; Paul says in 5:7, "you WERE running well"; would Paul have used "RUNNING-WELL" to anyone who was NEVER SAVED? No. Paul says, "who bewitched you into RETURNING to WORKS? Having BEGUN with the Spirit, are you now ENDING with the FLESH? You who seek to be justified by works AGAIN, you are SEVERED from Christ, you are FALLEN FROM GRACE!" How can "fallen-from-grace", not mean "fallen-from-grace"? You cannot contend "they were never saved" (running well!), you cannot contend they are now STILL SAVED (fallen/severed!) How does this passage stand in a OSAS belief? How?

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

Do we[all believers] do this? putting on the new?

no ....but some do ...and some return..

according to 2 peter 2:20 For if after they[in context ... believers] have escaped the pollutions of the world through the [real good experiential ] knowledge of the Lord and saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein[the world in context], and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning[less mercy from God..Gal 6:1-9.OSN grew in knowledge].21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way[how to live godly] of righteousness, than after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22 But it happened unto them according to the true proverb, the dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire....proverbs 26:11​

Note...Gal 6:8 everlasting life....eternal life...which is a good quality{god's kind of} life right now...one can experiece it RIGHT NOW ....BUT this is a choice for every believer..what does God due to one being out of God's will ...Hebrews 12:5-11, Gal 4:5-7 displine once a son always a son...if a Father you would understand this


2 peter 3:9The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering to us-ward[christians..believers..ro 8:1] not willing[determined] that any[eph 1:4] should perish, but that all should come to repentance[changing of ones mind].

Gal 1:2 written to all brethren

Gal 3:1 O foolish Galations[These are Jews going back to the works of the Law..Gal 2:16], who hath bewitched[taught you bad doctrine] you, that ye should not obey the truth[Romans 4:5, titus 3:5,2 tim 1:9,] before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evident set forth, crucified among you?[saw christ crucified] 2 This only would I learn of you, Recieve ye the Spirit by the works of the law[gal 3:23-24], or by the hearing of faith[Gal 5:22-23, romans 10:17, Hebrew 11:12 cor 5:7, 2tim 3:15,eph 3:12]? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? [listening to Matt 7:21-23 people....think they can work for their present tense salvation with out God's leading]

Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit even sso it is now

Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free[from OSN..How Romans 6:11-13 day by day mental battle..but a slave of Christ 1cor 7:20-24] and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage[law]. 2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, if ye be circumcised[follow the law like paul did earlier] Christ will profit you nothing. 3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is debtor to do the whole Law[roman 3:20,1tim 1:9,gal 3:11-12]. 4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law[romans 4:14-16]; ye are fallen from grace 5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait [Gal 5:22-23,2 cor 2:10,romans 10:17] for the hope of righteousness by faith. 6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, but faith which worketh by love.7 Ye did run well[goes back to vs 5]; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth? [truth goes back gal 3:1 response]

Gal 5:16 This I say then, walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

so if it is not possible to be in the darkness why the encouragment to stay in the Spirit?


hope that helps you understand? by the spirit works.........

 

[sJoon]

No. Once you receive salvation you can never lose it again.

 

[frumanchu]

Amen, sJoon.

I notice some are still taking 2 Peter 3:9 completely out of context.

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

Amen, sJoon.

I notice some are still taking 2 Peter 3:9 completely out of context.

then put your verse where your mouth is

then put it in context then........