Can Christianity be meaningful and relevant?

[sentipente]

I don't think I would want to equate those two situations.

 

[StormyOne]

Back in the 90's while SDA in another state. I spoke to a female whom use to be of our bible study group about the chior director of our church. I said that Ithought he was gay. Well that female passed those words onto the director who then called me. He asked to speak to me face to face. So I told him to come on over. When he got there, he tried to lie and deny he was gay. But as the conversation went on, he finally broke down and cried and admitted he was gay. He said that he had been molested as a child, and when he went off to college at Oakwood that he started relations with other men. He cried and confessed to me that he knew it was wrong and that he could not stop. We both prayed that night as he confessed his sin to God. He asked me to hold him accountable. But I felt no need to hold him accountable. I told him that with God all thing are possible. Do I concider him lost if he does not over come? No, thats not my call. Before that situtation, I hated gays. BUt it was through that situtation that God has shown me that no matter what, we must love people just the same. we are all made of the same stuff, we are all sinners.

I live in a different state from my sibblings. About two years ago I received a call from home from one of my sibbling that my sister has started dating a ex convict who had been locked up for 5 years. No one thought anything good would come of it. After a while they saw a change in my sister who had been a very good working single parent. I later got calls that she may be doing crack. I later got calls that she has lost much weight, I later got calls that she is neglecting her children. this past Monday I got a call that he is beating her down. No one seems to want to confont my sister and this man because she is in denial, and she is 40 years old. I may have to go home to deal with the situation. How far do we just talk and let things go and smooth things over before a life is lost. We may have to just call the police...who knows, a life may be saved.


AT

okay.... that is your response to my response? Or are you giving an example that your way of interacting is the only correct way to deal with possible sin problems that people have?

 

[Adventtruth]

Love covers a multitude of faults (sins), I am sure you are familiar with the text and might even know where its found......

And telling people the truth is not love?

your response AT is probably why you would not be able to talk to many of the young people today,

You are very wrong Stormy. I've spoken to countless young about life sitituation. They are leaving the SDA church in large numbers becasue of the gospel that gives them no hope. If you teach them the truth about God and His grace then there is no problem. Its not about the sabbath and food laws and how one dresses, or a little old lady who live in teh 1800's. Its about Christ and what He has done to liberate them to enjoy Him forever. Its not bondage to sin, but peace and joy and righteousness in Him and Him alone.

and I really would not let you near my kids, love ya, but naw you would not get near them

That is your choice and you have that right. But I only hope you don't teach your kids through a sugar coated message...thats worse than telling them a lie.

.... the bottom line is people might give what you have to say consideration IF you are in relationship with them....

When dealing with people, sometime you gotta give them what they need at that time. I hope you have a decerning heart stormy...every situation is different.

they are definitely going to tune you out if the only response to their questions or problems is what you believe the bible says....

And I hope you don't think everything that comes from my mouth is bible. You have to learn to speak their languages, while holding to biblical principles. One of the principle that Christ taught in one of His parable is that the children of the kingdom have not mastered the art of being shrews like the children of the world, which we should do...not in unrighteounsess but in righteousness. We must learn to decern and respond to the situtation. Paul said that he was all things to all people to win them to Christ.

Finally, Paul was not an expert on the extent to which God loves and woos us to himself... as long as there is life there is hope....

And I would say neither are you...but Paul did spend time being taught the gospel message by Christ and was given a free ride to heaven and saw somethings he could not speak about...I would trust his word over yours any day.

AT

 

[StormyOne]

And telling people the truth is not love?

love trumps truth everytime.....

You are very wrong Stormy. I've spoken to countless young about life sitituation. They are leaving the SDA church in large numbers becasue of the gospel that gives them no hope. If you teach them the truth about God and His grace then there is no problem. Its not about the sabbath and food laws and how one dresses, or a little old lady who live in teh 1800's. Its about Christ and what He has done to liberate them to enjoy Him forever. Its not bondage to sin, but peace and joy and righteousness in Him and Him alone.

I've been wrong before... and will be again... so that's cool.....

That is your choice and you have that right. But I only hope you don't teach your kids through a sugar coated message...thats worse than telling them a lie.

sure it is.... that would be the gospel according to?

When dealing with people, sometime you gotta give them what they need at that time. I hope you have a decerning heart stormy...every situation is different.

I am more perceptive than you realize...lol

And I hope you don't think everything that comes from my mouth is bible. You have to learn to speak their languages, while holding to biblical principles. One of the principle that Christ taught in one of His parable is that the children of the kingdom have not mastered the art of being shrews like the children of the world, which we should do...not in unrighteounsess but in righteousness. We must learn to decern and respond to the situtation. Paul said that he was all things to all people to win them to Christ.

okay.... and....

And I would say neither are you...but Paul did spend time being taught the gospel message by Christ and was given a free ride to heaven and saw somethings he could not speak about...I would trust his word over yours any day.

AT

thats fine, I didn't ask you to trust my word.... of course you can't be sure that Paul actually said any of what is attributed to him... but it works for you...

 

[Adventtruth]

okay.... that is your response to my response? Or are you giving an example that your way of interacting is the only correct way to deal with possible sin problems that people have?

It would be wise of you if you where not so judgemental. I never implied nor said my way was the only way, that is your own reasoning. I just though I would give examples of my experience with this issues. Each situtation is different and sometimes you can't just do the cookie cutter responce each time. You gave very basic situations. You never said how long this things had been going on, and few details, so I gave my own responce to each situation.

In the situation you gave about the girl, I simply told you how it was handled. I had a relationship with the girl...she worked with me, and by the way, we where such good friends, we joked about it, she told me she would steal my wife from me.


In your story about the pastor beating the mom, that situation seems to be one that has been going on for some time. Talking and smoothing things over may not be the answer to a situation like that, and history bears that out. Its tiome to get others involved in a situation as such.


AT

 

[StormyOne]

It would be wise of you if you where not so judgemental. I never implied nor said my way was the only way, that is your own reasoning. I just though I would give examples of my experience with this issues. Each situtation is different and sometimes you can't just do the cookie cutter responce each time. You gave very basic situations. You never said how long this things had been going on, and few details, so I gave my own responce to each situation.

In the situation you gave about the girl, I simply told you how it was handled. I had a relationship with the girl...she worked with me, and by the way, we where such good friends, we joked about it, she told me she would steal my wife from me.


In your story about the pastor beating the mom, that situation seems to be one that has been going on for some time. Talking and smoothing things over may not be the answer to a situation like that, and history bears that out. Its tiome to get others involved in a situation as such.


AT

I asked a question for clarification.... no judgment there... thank you for clarifying....

 

[Adventtruth]

love trumps truth everytime.....

And telling a lie is love according to who???


AT

 

[Adventtruth]

I asked a question for clarification.... no judgment there... thank you for clarifying....

My bad...and no problem.


AT

 

[StormyOne]

And telling a lie is love according to who???


AT

who said anything about telling a lie?

 

[Adventtruth]

who said anything about telling a lie?

I believe the conversation went like this.

Stormy wrote.

Love covers a multitude of faults (sins), I am sure you are familiar with the text and might even know where its found......

AT wrote

And telling people the truth is not love?

Stormy wrote

love trumps truth everytime.....

At wrote

And telling a lie is love according to who???

Stormy wrote

who said anything about telling a lie?

The context suggest we are talking about a lie and truth and love. Nothing else. Love is truth no matter how you do it or say it...a lie is not truth at all.

But you may say whatever, or just blow it off...thats cool to.



AT

 

[sentipente]

This black and white thinking can be such a drag.

 

[Avonia]

Sadly, I have a brother who has struggled with a number of issues, including homelessness. We have tried so many things to help, and nothing has worked.

Sometimes we have to completely bottom-out before we are teachable. Be there for him and continue to help in the best way you know how.

 

[Avonia]

Before that situtation, I hated gays.

You took one step in the right direction. Extrapolate from that and take another.

 

[StormyOne]

The context suggest we are talking about a lie and truth and love. Nothing else. Love is truth no matter how you do it or say it...a lie is not truth at all.

But you may say whatever, or just blow it off...thats cool to.



AT

the context as you perceived it... lying never entered the equation as far as I was concerned yet it appears for you it was there... as for your other statement about love is truth etc..... yeah AT whatever..... thanks for sharing your view....

 

[StormyOne]

This black and white thinking can be such a drag.

yep..... 2 dimensional thinking in a 3 dimensional reality....

 

[Adventtruth]

This black and white thinking can be such a drag.

Well for some of us, floating around in the middle as if in a far eastern trance is the ideal condition if we are not willing to live up to reality. Sorta blow it off and just maybe the pink will fade to black. Or maybe you will change your address again in your search for truth. But maybe you will finally realize that you are running out of middle ground, that the pink wont fade to black, your dimensions are down to just two and you have but a little time to make a choice. And I betcha you will end up being just like the little girl in the other room....listening, heart pounding, ear against the crack of time, not knowing which way to go. What do you do...do you pack your bags and change your address again in search for that other dimension? Do you just check out with your bags in search of the middle ground? No becasue its that little girl inthe other room that finds it way back to the pink. And before you know it you've been found out. And its not a pleasant sight at all.




AT

 

[StormyOne]

Well for some of us, floating around in the middle as if in a far eastern trance is the ideal condition if we are not willing to live up to reality. Sorta blow it off and just maybe the pink will fade to black. Or maybe you will change your address again in your search for truth. But maybe you will finally realize that you are running out of middle ground, that the pink wont fade to black, your dimensions are down to just two and you have but a little time to make a choice. And I betcha you will end up being just like the little girl in the other room....listening, heart pounding, ear against the crack of time, not knowing which way to go. What do you do...do you pack your bags and change your address again in search for that other dimension? Do you just check out with your bags in search of the middle ground? No becasue its that little girl inthe other room that finds it way back to the pink. And before you know it you've been found out. And its not a pleasant sight at all.

AT

or maybe none of what you suggest will happen.... the idea that you have equated being in the middle with not dealing with reality is...... laughable..... good try though, thanks for the effort...

 

[Adventtruth]

or maybe none of what you suggest will happen.... the idea that you have equated being in the middle with not dealing with reality is...... laughable..... good try though, thanks for the effort...

Nothing wrong with being in the middle sometimes...Only if you are not in the Far Eastern trance, thats when you find the pink...are you?

AT

 

[sentipente]

Nothing wrong with being in the middle sometimes...Only if you are not in the Far Eastern trance, thats when you find the pink...are you?

AT

Why are humans so prone to make such great efforts to resist the irresistible truth? One would think we learned our lesson from Galileo, but we have not.

 

[StormyOne]

back to the OP, how do christians relate to the people around them.... having thought about this more, let me add the variable, given that most christians believe that some humans will end up in hell for disobedience, how do they relate to the humans around them? Can what is believed by christians be meaningful to the larger population, or is the "christianity effect" minimal?