Can Biology Class Reduce Racism?

Ana the Ist · Dec 7, 2019

grasping the after wind said:
From what I can tell the study begins with a conclusion and is looking for evidence to support actions based upon that conclusion.

" the science classroom may be the best placed to provide a a buffer against unfounded genetic rationales for human difference that often become the basis for racial intolerance. "

IMO it is not really a study but an attempt to gather evidence to support that idea.
News outlets often mischaracterize these sorts of things as studies. To many supposed journalists, if people that can be considered scientists are doing something, no matter what that something might be, it is a study. Not every worthwhile thing must start with an actual study. If we agree that racial intolerance is bad, we do not need a study to prove it before we attempt to combat it. If we agree that facts are more reliable than feelings, we do not need a study to prove it before we use facts rather than feelings to inform people. So if these people can indeed provide factual evidence to students that will provide a buffer against unfounded rationales, I am all for it.

It might be an actual study....

It looks like they gathered data beforehand on students' perceptions about the connections between race and genetics. They'll probably train teachers to explain these topics to students....then try to measure if any changes occurred in the students' perceptions of race and genetics.

It sounds like a sociological study...not a scientific one.

Ana the Ist · Dec 7, 2019

OldWiseGuy said:
I don't think "unfounded genetic rationales" are all that meaningful in the overall discussion about racism. It will have to be established that disproving these rationales will have a substantially positive effect on the problem as well.

It's possible that more racist ideas are about culture...and not genetics...but the more "cultural" they get, the less racist they really are.

The concept of race itself is rooted in long disproven genetic assumptions...not cultural ones.

Ana the Ist · Dec 7, 2019

Kaon said:
Because ideology doesn't necessarily follow logic or "facts". You cannot "fact" the racism out of someone; it is a psychology that requires a change in the brain.

You think racism has a biological origin?

As said, there are plenty of highly intelligent people that are racist (who can teach graduate courses on biology).

Incidentally, "truth" can be quite malleable - and can be twisted to fit an ideology. History shows us this.

Facts are facts.

Ana the Ist · Dec 7, 2019

Hank77 said:
They are testing the idea that the science classroom may be the best place to provide a buffer against the unfounded genetic rationales for human difference that often become the basis for racial intolerance.

Can anyone give examples of "unfounded genetic rationals for human difference" that "become the basis for racial intolerance?"

I'm having a hard time identifying what these may be, and seeing my grandson is taking a high school biology class right now I'd like some specifics.

One old example is the idea that black people have a higher sex drive than other races, and less self-control...which are both racist in of themselves, but in turn, also lead to other racist beliefs.

Ana the Ist · Dec 7, 2019

Kaon said:
It isn't re-education: it is education in this sense. Racism is extreme; you cant meet a beast like this with logic and academics - or you end up saying something like, "It's 2199... why/how is there still racism?"

I don't think threatening anyone with violence and death qualifies as "education".

And, we keep repeating the same history over and over, allowing entities to exploit us while we argue for them, and die for them.

Entities?

So, why not use an artifact of the past to help our modernity and future?

It didn't turn out so well for Pol Pot.

Everyone knows that the implications of the "re-education" aforementioned would mean severe pain, or even death.

You think threatening people with pain and death is a valid way of educating people?

There's plenty of history that suggests you can't beat the beliefs out of someone.

Ana the Ist · Dec 7, 2019

SummerMadness said:
What are you all talking about? A study is not being conducted. Differences in outcomes between different ethnic and/racial groups are not because of biology. That is fact; however, the misconception that biology is related to these differences still exists.

Previously, people in the life sciences left clearing up those misconceptions to the social sciences, but given that people persistently hold racist views based on a false understanding of biology, there is now a push to counteract this. They counteract this by reviewing and amending their curriculum so that people do not mistakenly believe the science backs up their racist views.

A study is not being conducted.

You sure about that?

But in a study starting this month, a group of biology teachers from across the country will address it head-on. They are testing the idea that the science classroom may be the best place to provide a buffer against the unfounded genetic rationales for human difference that often become the basis for racial intolerance.

Hank77 · Dec 7, 2019

Ana the Ist said:
One old example is the idea that black people have a higher sex drive than other races, and less self-control...which are both racist in of themselves, but in turn, also lead to other racist beliefs.

I don't know of anything taught in a junior high or high school biology class that would lead someone to believe this.

So do you think they are going to bring up myths like this one and point out that genetics don't support them?

Ana the Ist · Dec 7, 2019

Kaon said:
Because ignoring, marginalizing and "educating people on" racism hasn't worked.

How would you know if it worked?

You cannot stop racism with academics, you have to change the ideology. The best way to help someone to understand something is by experience - walking a mile in the shoes of the person judged.

Everyone knows what it's like to be unfairly judged for characteristics that shouldn't matter.

I didn't say that someone was forced to think a certain way - I am saying walk a mile in the shoes one judges. The purpose of the experiment is to get people to see what it is like to be the object of their disdain - to discourage further ignorance, prejudice and racism. The resistance to such an experiment is because deep down we know how horrid it would be - since those of us who are racist also know how we treat that race of our disdain.

I don't see how this would play out.

This is a marginalization of real racism - the type that, for example, disproportionately prosecutes and jails certain ethnic groups, or infiltrates every part of law enforcement to carry out their agenda on the objects of their disdain.

Geez...I take it you don't actually know any cops.

It is definitely rooted in tribalism, but there are only a few groups that perpetually benefit from racism and systemic racism.

This country was founded on the work of people who were once considered animals, and inhuman; it stayed that way (overtly) until 1967. The "experiment" was based on superiority. The Western Expansion of the US was based on Manifest Destiny - a racist agenda that said it was the God-given right of the "founding" members of the country to conquer as much territory as possible.

Apparently, history class could also be a useful place to rid people of racist ideas...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.history.com/.amp/topics/westward-expansion/manifest-destiny

Part of being better means not ignoring the history that got us to this point, and understanding why there is a problem in the first place.

I never understood this point....what part of history do you think people are ignoring?

Too many people psychologically flee when they are confronted with inconvenient truths

I agree.

Despite my thought experiment, I don't believe it will actually stop racism. It is still too logical, and racism isn't logical.

I don't think being racist to people will "fix" racism. I don't find that a particularly logical solution...it looks like an excuse to be racist.

Ana the Ist · Dec 7, 2019

Hank77 said:
I don't know of anything taught in a junior high or high school biology class that would lead someone to believe this.

Me neither....

These things tend to pop up in racist discussions about, for example, the prevalence of black single mothers. If the question is why so many black single mothers....then easy racist answers about raging black sexuality might appear.

So do you think they are going to bring up myths like this one and point out that genetics don't support them?

I don't know...but it could be useful if they did.

Ana the Ist · Dec 7, 2019

usexpat97 said:
Even English class can reduce racism. Let alone Spanish class. But that does not mean all English/history/biology/kinesiology classes and teachers will.

The biggest thing biology provides is something that is not always welcome: *FOUNDED* genetic rationale for human differences between the races. If you are looking for facts which say all the races are equal, do not look to biology. Even things such as hair and eye color--at least they can isolate that to a single chromosome. Even gender comes down to a single chromosome. Not so with race. James Watson did a study on the hereditary correlation between race and IQ, and by my read of it, it looks like, frankly, good science. Yet his treatment for writing it has been closer to Galileo's and Copernicus' treatment than scientific. It's a classic case of scientific meets politically-correct.

IQ gets thrown around as some sort of absolute standard for measuring intelligence....it isn't.

It may be the best tool we have for measuring intelligence...or one of the best tools...but it's certainly not perfect.

It's more significant to say that every race has the same capacity for genius and stupidity....than it is to point out some statistical average IQ for each race.

usexpat97 · Dec 7, 2019

Ana the Ist said:
It's more significant to say that every race has the same capacity for genius and stupidity....than it is to point out some statistical average IQ for each race.

Except that James Watson presented a scientific case, with evidence for the latter. You gave none for the former. So, not true.

Ana the Ist · Dec 7, 2019

usexpat97 said:
Except that James Watson presented a scientific case, with evidence for the latter. You gave none for the former. So, not true.

Lol just because I didn't provide any evidence for my claim doesn't mean it isn't true. To be honest, I didn't think it was a controversial claim. Is there some race that you believe never has any geniuses?

OldWiseGuy · Dec 7, 2019

Ana the Ist said:
It's possible that more racist ideas are about culture...and not genetics...but the more "cultural" they get, the less racist they really are.

The concept of race itself is rooted in long disproven genetic assumptions...not cultural ones.

I think 'race' is an all-encompassing term that includes physical and cultural differences.

Ana the Ist · Dec 7, 2019

OldWiseGuy said:
I think 'race' is an all-encompassing term that includes physical and cultural differences.

Well it definitely gets mixed here in the US.

There are certainly cultural concepts/attitudes/beliefs that can be shaped by race and history and all sorts of things that shape culture. It's just worth pointing out that something cultural isn't necessarily racial.

Radagast · Dec 7, 2019

essentialsaltes said:
It will certainly be a challenge to present the material accurately and diplomatically

Almost impossible, I would think.

And there are indeed (small) differences between the averages of different ethnic groups. For example, people with West African ancestry, on average, make better sprinters. People with East African ancestry, on average, make better long distance runners.

OldWiseGuy · Dec 7, 2019

Ana the Ist said:
Well it definitely gets mixed here in the US.

There are certainly cultural concepts/attitudes/beliefs that can be shaped by race and history and all sorts of things that shape culture. It's just worth pointing out that something cultural isn't necessarily racial.

Of course. I have a lot of problems with some cultural behaviors of my white brothers and sisters.

The 800 pound gorilla in the room is still the fact of simple preference. If I were given the choice of spending day with a black man that I didn't know and a white family with small children that I didn't know I'd hang with the black guy.

Radagast · Dec 7, 2019

Ana the Ist said:
It may be the best tool we have for measuring intelligence...or one of the best tools...but it's certainly not perfect.

It's so imperfect that it's really only helpful within a peer group (i.e. people who share a cultural background), it seems to me.

OldWiseGuy · Dec 7, 2019

Ana the Ist said:
It's more significant to say that every race has the same capacity for genius and stupidity....than it is to point out some statistical average IQ for each race.

You can't ignore the differences in the development of that capacity between ethic groups at a point in time, and it's ramifications.

Ana the Ist · Dec 7, 2019

Radagast said:
Almost impossible, I would think.

And there are indeed (small) differences between the averages of different ethnic groups. For example, people with West African ancestry, on average, make better sprinters. People with East African ancestry, on average, make better long distance runners.

Do you think that is somehow related to genetics?

Ana the Ist · Dec 7, 2019

OldWiseGuy said:
You can't ignore the differences in the development of that capacity between ethic groups at a point in time, and it's ramifications.

Example?

Can Biology Class Reduce Racism?

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