Can bigots be Christians?

[nimajneb]

The problem that gets in a lot of peoples way is whether to initiate a talk about the sin and how far you should go to help others flee from it. No one in here should disagree that homosexuality is a sin but if a christian points it out he may be considered a bigot even if he does it in love for the person. I biggest sin I am working on eliminating is lying and if I lie I pray to God that someone will call me on it so that I can allow myself to be a better person in Christ. Do I want someone to do it in hatred. No. But if they do it still doesn't change the fact that I was wrong for lying in the first place and though it may hurt for a while, if I try to turn from sin in every instance than it will make me a better person.

Now I have never witnessed a homosexual religiously try to turn from being a homosexual as in repenting for sinning because many think that what they are doing is not wrong. I have seen them hide and have seen them wish that their lives would be easier and wish other people would accept them for who they are but no church should continually accept a person who is deeply imbedded in sin and have a refusal to get out of it. If I am a liar and continue to lie daily with no remorse or willingness to change that, what good does it do the church to have a habitual liar among its congregation.

I guess what I'm trying to say is how would someone go about trying to help someone turn from being a homosexual without being called a bigot.

 

[loriersea]

As a Christian today, I see so much bigotry from those who claim to be Christians. I see persecution of homosexuals, of other religions, and of course, those that serve in the military. My question is this. Are you really a loving Christian when you demonize people this way? WDJD? I'm of the understanding that Christ would never have taken the stance I've seen so many called Christians take. Let me know what you think.

Right now I'm reading Phillip Yancey's What's So Amazing About Grace?, and I think it really gets at a problem with Christianity today. Yancey agrees with C.S. Lewis that the one really unique thing that Christianity has to offer to the world--something that people cannot get anywhere else--is grace. And yet I see no grace in many actions of many Christians today, including many of my own actions. I'm also thinking of a line from another book I read recently, Angela Hunt's The Debt (which I had some major issues with, but overall thought was pretty good for evangelical fiction), where the heroine, who is involved with a large ministry with her husband that runs lots of boycotts and campaigns over all sorts of moral issues, says that she is tired of crusading and boycotting against immorality, and just wants to lavish love on a world that is starving for it.

I think this is a really difficult thing. For the most part, politics brings out the worst in me. But, at the same time, I feel like I can't stand by and watch people deny other people rights, and that cannot be fought just by sharing God's grace with people. I do think it's something Christians need to think about, though. Jesus never asked anyone to repent BEFORE he loved them; he shared meals and conversations with them, in love, before any talk of leaving behind sins.

I think a bigot can be a Christian, because bigotry is a sin like any other, and Christianity is a religion that welcomes sinners. But, I do think that a Christian should strive to not be a bigot, and to act in grace, which is difficult given that grace goes contrary to pretty much everything about our world, including our economic and political systems, where most of us spend much of our lives, at least in some capacity.

 

[rosalind110]

The problem that gets in a lot of peoples way is whether to initiate a talk about the sin and how far you should go to help others flee from it. No one in here should disagree that homosexuality is a sin but if a christian points it out he may be considered a bigot even if he does it in love for the person. I biggest sin I am working on eliminating is lying and if I lie I pray to God that someone will call me on it so that I can allow myself to be a better person in Christ. Do I want someone to do it in hatred. No. But if they do it still doesn't change the fact that I was wrong for lying in the first place and though it may hurt for a while, if I try to turn from sin in every instance than it will make me a better person.

Now I have never witnessed a homosexual religiously try to turn from being a homosexual as in repenting for sinning because many think that what they are doing is not wrong. I have seen them hide and have seen them wish that their lives would be easier and wish other people would accept them for who they are but no church should continually accept a person who is deeply imbedded in sin and have a refusal to get out of it. If I am a liar and continue to lie daily with no remorse or willingness to change that, what good does it do the church to have a habitual liar among its congregation.

I guess what I'm trying to say is how would someone go about trying to help someone turn from being a homosexual without being called a bigot.

In the 'Oxford English Dictionary' a 'bigot' is defined as, "a person who is prejudiced in their views and intolerant of the opinions of others", and in the 'Webster-Merriam dictionary as, "a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices". That would imply to me that the bigotry is not in the fact that you hold a strong conviction about a particular thing or that you try to convey that conviction to another person, but in the way that you go about this, and your attitude to their point of view.

My feeling is that people often mistake their scripturally advocated obligation to help other people to stay on the Christian 'straight and narrow', for a right to judge, convict and bar them from God's salvation (judge not lest ye be judged), when it is clear from the Bible that only God can do this, and this is why I do not see bigotry as compatible with true Christianity. As someone said in a previous post, Jesus never did this to anyone during His time on this earth so what is it that makes us feel that we have the right?

 

[beechy]

No one in here should disagree that homosexuality is a sin . . .

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and I don't have a problem with you believing that homosexuality is a sin. But what do you mean when you say that "no one in here should disagree" with you?

 

[Vedant]

As a Christian today, I see so much bigotry from those who claim to be Christians. I see persecution of homosexuals, of other religions, and of course, those that serve in the military. My question is this. Are you really a loving Christian when you demonize people this way? WDJD? I'm of the understanding that Christ would never have taken the stance I've seen so many called Christians take. Let me know what you think.

The title of this thread made me crack up for some reason. Maybe it's a DC thing.... Anyway, everyone can be Christian, though like many things, people are Christian to varying degrees. Doing bad things isn't very Christian. It's easy to point at bigots or other people, but in the end, we're all the same, and need love just like anyone else. There is no set way to being Christian, as any glance over this forum makes obvious. People disagree on all the details, but going back to the main things that make someone Christian is where we can find a better consensus. Hope this helps.

If bigotry gets to you that much, don't allow only the bigots to be the voice of Christianity, because they only speak for some Christians. You disagree with them, so show people a different light by practicing your religion in the way that works for you.

 

[applepowerpc]

Bigot is a man-made term. So is "Christian", but ultimately who is saved or not is for God to decide. So sure, someone whom man calls a "bigot" God may call "saved".

 

[Cruella]

Perhaps Christianity and bigotry are one and the same.

 

[CCGirl]

As a Christian today, I see so much bigotry from those who claim to be Christians. I see persecution of homosexuals, of other religions, and of course, those that serve in the military. My question is this. Are you really a loving Christian when you demonize people this way? WDJD? I'm of the understanding that Christ would never have taken the stance I've seen so many called Christians take. Let me know what you think.

Since joining CF and experiencing US style fundamentalism, I would have to say definately yes!

 

[sethad]

Take a look at history...

Slavery was backed by the Bible

Racism was backed by the Bible

The Bible is used by the KKK and other Christian Identity group

The Bible has been used to back up sexism

The Bible is used to to be prejudiced against homosexuals.

So...either Christians can be bigots or you'd have to judge all those people (most of early America probably and many people today) to not be "true" Christians.

 

[Stinker]

Think you have no bigotry in you?

If you had a daughter and she wanted to marry a man of a race that was as opposite from yours as could be, how would you feel?

 

[sethad]

Think you have no bigotry in you?

If you had a daughter and she wanted to marry a man of a race that was as opposite from yours as could be, how would you feel?

I'm multiracial, white/black/hispanic. I've had girlfriends of other races. I wouldn't care what race my daughter wanted to marry. It shouldn't matter anyway.

 

[outlaw]

Think you have no bigotry in you?

If you had a daughter and she wanted to marry a man of a race that was as opposite from yours as could be, how would you feel?

I am a human being....can you tell me exactly what race is “opposite”?

 

[christalee4]

Think you have no bigotry in you?

If you had a daughter and she wanted to marry a man of a race that was as opposite from yours as could be, how would you feel?

So, if one's daughter wanted to marry a boy who was "extremely opposite" - like say, she was white and blonde and racially pure as snow, and he was as black as ebony, that a Christian parent might be justified in having bigoted feelings against this union? What if the intended was not so diametrically opposite, like being a quadroon, an octaroon, or a somewhat swarthy and olive skinned Latin American. Would that be less offensive?

If I had a daughter, she could marry whomever she loves, hopefully as long as he is a good loving man back to her. Skin color should not matter.

 

[beechy]

Think you have no bigotry in you?

If you had a daughter and she wanted to marry a man of a race that was as opposite from yours as could be, how would you feel?

What a strange post. I'll echo others who have responded by saying that I'm not sure what an "opposite" race from my own (multi-ethnic) "race" would be.

Also, I can firmly say I wouldn't care one bit about the "racial" make-up of my daughter's fiance. I would care, however, about the make-up of his character.

Stinker, since you posed the question, how would you feel if your daughter wanted to marry a man of a "race that was opposite" of yours?

 

[sethad]

I think stinker was expecting everyone here to be racist or something?

Odd.

I answered because I know when he said "opposite race" he meant race as in caucasian, African (American or otherwise), Hispanic, Asian, etc.

However we all arent different species. Different "races" can breed, I'm living proof of that

 

[Mirelys]

Think you have no bigotry in you?

If you had a daughter and she wanted to marry a man of a race that was as opposite from yours as could be, how would you feel?

Ummm...I wouldn't have a problem with it, of course If my ancestors had been racist, I would never have been born.
Of course I'm slightly liberal and I wouldn't have a problem with it if she was a lesbian, either...

 

[vajradhara]

As a Christian today, I see so much bigotry from those who claim to be Christians. I see persecution of homosexuals, of other religions, and of course, those that serve in the military. My question is this. Are you really a loving Christian when you demonize people this way? WDJD? I'm of the understanding that Christ would never have taken the stance I've seen so many called Christians take. Let me know what you think.

Namaste christianmarine,

thank you for the post.

well... it depends on if you believe what they claim for themselves or if you believe Jesus.

Jesus said by their fruit shall you know them.

Fred Phelps says that he is a Christian.

one of these two is correct.

as a non-Christian, i can look at the fruit that Fred "i'm hiding my bigotry and racism behind God" Phelps is reaping and i can see that it is not of the same sort that Jesus reaped.

so... yes, some that call themselves Christians can be bigoted, racist jerks. does that mean that they are actually Christians? i shall leave that to others to decide.

moreover, that does not indicate anything about Christians, as a group, just a particular individual which seemed like a good example of a bad example.

metta,

~v

 

[Stinker]

Think you have no bigotry in you?

If you had a daughter and she wanted to marry a man of a race that was as opposite from yours as could be, how would you feel?

What a strange post. I'll echo others who have responded by saying that I'm not sure what an "opposite" race from my own (multi-ethnic) "race" would be.

Also, I can firmly say I wouldn't care one bit about the "racial" make-up of my daughter's fiance. I would care, however, about the make-up of his character.

Stinker, since you posed the question, how would you feel if your daughter wanted to marry a man of a "race that was opposite" of yours?

The reason I posted that 'strange' question was because I think we all have some prejudice in us. When parents envision what their grandchildren will look like, they see them in their mind as being of the same race as themselves and their son/daughter.

There is somewhat of a (maybe a false one) racial pride of all peoples to some degree. I think it always comes as a suprise to parents when they find that that their son/daughter is in love with someone of an opposite race and they had not known.

 

[Laura]

The reason I posted that 'strange' question was because I think we all have some prejudice in us. When parents envision what their grandchildren will look like, they see them in their mind as being of the same race as themselves and their son/daughter.

I agree with you somewhat. Most people have at least some degree of prejudice in them. It's not always a malicious thing...it's just something that's there. We form opinions based on our experiences. I think racism or any form of bigotry is repulsive. I see myself as more "color-blind" than most people I know, and I find myself attracted to people of all different races. I would have no problem marrying someone of a different race. I don't think my parents would have a problem with it, because we've talked about it before.

Responding to the original post - in my opinion, bigots cannot be Christians.

 

[sethad]

Think you have no bigotry in you?

If you had a daughter and she wanted to marry a man of a race that was as opposite from yours as could be, how would you feel?



The reason I posted that 'strange' question was because I think we all have some prejudice in us. When parents envision what their grandchildren will look like, they see them in their mind as being of the same race as themselves and their son/daughter.

Not me

There is somewhat of a (maybe a false one) racial pride of all peoples to some degree. I think it always comes as a suprise to parents when they find that that their son/daughter is in love with someone of an opposite race and they had not known.

Everyone should be proud of who they are, but it shouldnt be to the point that they look down on everyone else.

As many people have said...they wouldn't care what race their daughter married into and I wouldn't either.

Responding to the original post - in my opinion, bigots cannot be Christians.

In that case...most of early America probably weren't real Christians.