Can anyone explain how the moth got it's owl eyes?

[AV1611VET]

Copying errors are the raw material of natural selection. Helpful errors help the creature prosper and the gene propagate. Harmful errors can prevent reproduction or even kill. Neutral copying errors don't impact anything.

Tell that to Xerox.

 

[Thurston-howell-III]

Copying errors are the raw material of natural selection. Helpful errors help the creature prosper and the gene propagate. Harmful errors can prevent reproduction or even kill. Neutral copying errors don't impact anything.

How many copying errors have led to new novel body parts?

 

[Hans Blaster]

How many copying errors have led to new novel body parts?

Depends. (I don't think we know the specific sequence of copying errors (mutations) that lead to any particular new organ.)

 

[BCP1928]

How many copying errors have led to new novel body parts?

Perhaps you had better clarify what you mean by "novel new body parts." Really, there haven't actually been any since around the time of the Cambrian.

 

[Ophiolite]

Perhaps you had better clarify what you mean by "novel new body parts." Really, there haven't actually been any since around the time of the Cambrian.

The step by step emergence of "new body parts" is a concept some are simply unable, or unwilling, to wrap their heads around. I imagine some could consider an eye a "new body part", and yet through intermediate stages, for the most part visible in living organisms today, we can witness the progress from a simple light sensitive cell, to a full blown eye, with lens, iris and asscociated paraphanalia. Likewise, if we consider the growth of the eye within an embryo each stage is directed by one or more coding sequences in the embryo's DNA and each of those coding sequences was originally a mutaion.

The counter-argument to this is a string of empty denials that may convince their author, but leave any informed individual bemused by the perversity of human thinking.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Can anyone explain what it took for a moth to gain owl eyes on ea wing? Owl are formidable predators recognized by would-be moth enemies.
Just wondering. View attachment 345574

Owl eyes???

 

[AV1611VET]

The counter-argument to this is a string of empty denials that may convince their author, but leave any informed individual bemused by the perversity of human thinking.

"Empty denials" not taken seriously is what gave us a rich history of death and destruction.

Would you like to see some pictures?

Or are they too hard to face?

 

[AV1611VET]

Owl eyes???

Keeps mice from sneaking up on them.

 

[Thurston-howell-III]

The step by step emergence of "new body parts" is a concept some are simply unable, or unwilling, to wrap their heads around. I imagine some could consider an eye a "new body part", and yet through intermediate stages, for the most part visible in living organisms today, we can witness the progress from a simple light sensitive cell, to a full blown eye, with lens, iris and asscociated paraphanalia. Likewise, if we consider the growth of the eye within an embryo each stage is directed by one or more coding sequences in the embryo's DNA and each of those coding sequences was originally a mutation.

The counter-argument to this is a string of empty denials that may convince their author, but leave any informed individual bemused by the perversity of human thinking.

Did you see that authentic cerebral response your well put together post? You're right, they have no answers.
And what more to consider then just the multiple mutations it took to form an eye, what about the dual interactivity connection to the brain, the processing of images, and the colorization. etc, etc?

 

[BCP1928]

Did you see that authentic cerebral response your well put together post? You're right, they have no answers.
And what more to consider then just the multiple mutations it took to form an eye, what about the dual interactivity connection to the brain, the processing of images, and the colorization. etc, etc?

You're still trying too hard to disprove your own theory of evolution. Go back to what I told you before and consider the difference between evolution by mutation and natural selection and evolution by random variation and natural selection. Remember that natural selection does not act on mutations directly but on how that mutation is expressed in the phenotype.

With respect to your question, the short answer is that the selective environment for any trait is not just the environment external to the creature, but includes related traits as well.

 

[Thurston-howell-III]

You're still trying too hard to disprove your own theory of evolution. Go back to what I told you before and consider the difference between evolution by mutation and natural selection and evolution by random variation and natural selection. Remember that natural selection does not act on mutations directly but on how that mutation is expressed in the phenotype.

With respect to your question, the short answer is that the selective environment for any trait is not just the environment external to the creature, but includes related traits as well.

Again, the one thing you can’t do w out is random mutations. Random!!!!
Your fantasy of molecules to man depends on multiple multiple multiple upon multiple lucky mutations. It don’t look good for your fantasy.

 

[BCP1928]

Again, the one thing you can’t do w out is random mutations. Random!!!!
Your fantasy of molecules to man depends on multiple multiple multiple upon multiple lucky mutations. It don’t look good for your fantasy.

Yes, random mutations. They don't have to be lucky, just random.

 

[Thurston-howell-III]

Yes, random mutations. They don't have to be lucky, just random.

But they are lucky and random, in fact to get many multiple required for a new body part, say the eye, is for all intents, impossible. You need just the right ones, OVER AND OVER AND OVER again.
Not enough earth time for your fantasy!
Then you need more for regulation and integration. We can all fantasize can’t we? LOL

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

But they are lucky and random, in fact to get many multiple required for a new body part, say the eye, is for all intents, impossible. You need just the right ones, OVER AND OVER AND OVER again.
Not enough earth time for your fantasy!
Then you need more for regulation and integration. We can all fantasize can’t we? LOL

Not in the slightest. The right mutation is only needed once, and when it's passed down via natural selection and reproduction, it's locked into the genetics.

Although of course, you clearly don't care nor will you ever care to learn so there's really no point in arguing against you is there?

 

[Thurston-howell-III]

Not in the slightest. The right mutation is only needed once, and when it's passed down via natural selection and reproduction, it's locked into the genetics.

Although of course, you clearly don't care nor will you ever care to learn so there's really no point in arguing against you is there?

Man don’t you have the blinders on.
You see no coincidence getting just the right multiple very improbable mutations
TIME AND TIME AGAIN!!!!
There is not enough time in the universe existance to even chance the formation of a single useful protein. So how did all the other proteins come into being? More chance?
You are incredulous to the hilt!

 

[BCP1928]

But they are lucky and random, in fact to get many multiple required for a new body part, say the eye, is for all intents, impossible. You need just the right ones, OVER AND OVER AND OVER again.
Not enough earth time for your fantasy!
Then you need more for regulation and integration. We can all fantasize can’t we? LOL

You think evolution is aiming at some kind of a target? That it set out to make an eye?

 

[Astrid]

You think evolution is aiming at some kind of a target? That it set out to make an eye?

You are more patient with mockery and abuse than I am.

 

[Shemjaza]

Man don’t you have the blinders on.
You see no coincidence getting just the right multiple very improbable mutations
TIME AND TIME AGAIN!!!!
There is not enough time in the universe existance to even chance the formation of a single useful protein. So how did all the other proteins come into being? More chance?
You are incredulous to the hilt!

The point is that the evolution process covers an entire population of organisms allowing many more opportunities for advantageous mutations to develop and propagate.

 

[BCP1928]

You see no coincidence getting just the right multiple very improbable mutations
TIME AND TIME AGAIN!!!!

What do you mean by "just the right (mutation)?" All the mutation has to do to be "lucky" is improve the fitness of the creature in some way--not in a particular way to reach some final outcome later on.

 

[Ophiolite]

What do you mean by "just the right (mutation)?" All the mutation has to do to be "lucky" is improve the fitness of the creature in some way--not in a particular way to reach some final outcome later on.

I feel we have reached the point of no return. His denial that beneficial mutations exist, when they can be pointed out and demonstrated, betrays a solid commitment to ignore the evidence. His own posts have contained that evidence, yet he is so wedded to distorted, fanciful understandings of what evolution is that the evidence does not - in his mind exist.

The only remaining question I have is would someone whose name was Thurston-howell III actually have a lower case "h" in the second portion of their double barreled name? I think not and reasonable inferences can follow.