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Can anyone deny this history of persecution?

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Aaron Lindahl

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Lest anyone accuse me of 'promoting' homosexuality, I most definitely am not. I am a Christian and am merely sharing historical reality that any university student majoring in classical history would be well aware of, and historical reality that modern day Christians should keep in mind before desiring to take it upon themselves to judge others over their sins as same-sex marriage becomes the law of the land in more and more states, and more and more countries.

I begin with the birthplace of our own Western Civilization: Greek and Roman civilization, and then go into a detailed history of the Church. Homosexuality flourished for over 1,300 years within the Greek culture, and for almost 900 years of Roman culture without causing any ‘downfall’ of civilization as some people today claim will happen if gay people are allowed to marry each other. Their sin is between God and themselves, but does not cause the sky to fall.

Yet, within a little over 100 years after Christians gained political dominance in Rome, the entire civilization collapsed, not because of a few barbarian incursions... but instead after those 'Christians' had forbade freedom of religion under pain of death, freedom of thought under pain of death, shut down the Olympics, the theaters, the gymnasiums, and schools of learning. Knowledge of realistic artwork and sculpture was lost, scientific knowledge and civic engineering withered and died.

They basically killed civic culture and classical civilization. The public libraries were either closed or abandoned since within only 2 generations the majority of the people had lost the ability to read.. after all, you were told the world was going to end at any moment, and that you only needed to know what your priest or pastor told you to believe, you were told that interest in secular knowledge was no longer necessary. The ancient world was a relatively tolerant place in the world of religion. There were occasional bursts of persecution of this or that sect but as a rule many religions existed side by side.

The consensus among modern historians is that republican Rome, like classical Greece, was tolerant of same-sex relationships. Moreover, the Romans accorded same-sex unions the legal or cultural status of marriages. To take one early example, Cicero, the great Roman lawyer and orator, persuaded Curio the Elder to honor the debts that Curio's son had incurred on behalf of Antonius, to whom the son was, in Cicero's words, "united in a stable and permanent marriage, just as if he had given him a matron's stola." (The stola was garb distinctively reserved for a married Roman woman. "Te a meretricio quaestu abduxit et, tamquam stolam dedisset, in matrimonio stabili et certo collocavit.")

Cicero's legalistic advice shows that same-sex relationships were not only socially accepted among Roman society, but that they also potentially carried with them legal obligations and consequences, and hence were marriages as we understand the term. Records describing Roman social customs during the imperial period survive in far greater number, at least in part because many, if not most, of the emperors enjoyed well-documented relationships, some of them legally sanctioned marriages-with other men. The evidence suggests that during the same general time frame when companionate long-term marriages were being institutionalized for different-sex couples, they were likewise becoming more common for same-sex couples, who were entering into relationships akin to those discussed in Plato's Symposium.

By the time of the early Empire the stereotyped roles of [sexually active] "lover" and [sexually passive] "beloved" no longer seem to be the only model for homosexual lovers. Many homosexual relationships were permanent and exclusive. Among the lower classes informal unions like that of Giton and Encolpius may have predominated, but marriages between males or between females were legal and familiar among the upper classes.... By the time of the early Empire references to gay marriages are commonplace. The biographer of Elagabalus maintains that after the emperor's marriage to an athlete from Smyrna, any male who wished to advance at the imperial court either had to have a husband or pretend that he did.

Martial and Juvenal both mention same-sex public ceremonies involving the families, dowries, and legal niceties. It is clear that not only aristocrats were involved: a cymbal player is mentioned by Juvenal. Martial points out that both men involved in one ceremony were thoroughly masculine ("The bearded Callistratus married the rugged Afer") and that the marriage took place under the same law that regulated marriage between men and women. Nero married two men in succession, both in public ceremonies with the ritual appropriate to legal marriage. At least one of these unions was recognized by Greeks and Romans, and the spouse was accorded the honors of an empress .... One of the men, Sporus, accompanied Nero to public functions, where the emperor would embrace him affectionately. He remained with Nero throughout his reign and stood by him as he died.

Same-sex unions were noted in popular Roman culture and literature as well. The novel Babylonica, an early version of the pulp romance, had a subplot involving the passion of Egypt's Queen Berenice for the beautiful Mesopotamia, who was snatched from her. After one of the Queen's servants rescued Mesopotamia from her abductors, "'Berenice married Mesopotamia, and there was war between [the abductor] and Berenice on her account.' " Of even greater renown, the Emperor Hadrian's love for Antinous attained the status of legend, acclaimed for generations in sculpture, architecture, painting, coins, and literature.

The popularity of Hadrian and Antinous as a couple, was likely due to the prevalence of same-sex couples in popular romantic literature of the time. Everywhere in the fiction of the Empire-from lyric poetry to popular novels-gay couples and their love appear on a completely equal footing with their heterosexual counterparts.

During the years 342 CE to 395 CE all this changed when Christianity established itself as the only religion in the Roman Empire and launched an all out campaign of religious terror against all other beliefs. Even though Christians had suffered from persecution from time to time, this does not justify what they did upon coming to political dominance, and had gained the ear of an emperor, whose word was law.

It was not until the Roman world was forcibly converted, and succumbed to an unforgiving and dictatorship-like form of Christianity (completely unlike the first 3 centuries of a peaceful and loving form of Christianity), that we began to embark upon the Dark Ages.

PERSECUTION OF HOMOSEXUALS BEGINS:

On December 16, 342 AD, the Christian emperors Constantius II and Constans, under advice from their bishops, issued the following edict.. a law specifically outlawing marriages between men, which had previously been allowed, and reads as follows:

"When a man marries in the manner of a woman, a woman about to renounce men, what does he wish, when sex has lost its significance; when the crime is one which it is not profitable to know; when Venus is changed into another form; when love is sought and not found? We order the statutes to arise, the laws to be armed with an avenging sword, that those infamous persons who are now, or who hereafter may be guilty, shall be subjected to exquisite punishment." (Theodosian Code 9.7.3)

Then, 48 years later, Christian emperors Theodosius and Arcadius on Aug 6, 390, under the advice of their bishops, issued the following edict.. an edict that would begin an evil persecution towards gay people that would last until very recently: "All persons who have the shameful custom of condemning a man's body, acting the part of a woman's to the sufferance of alien sex (for they appear not to be different from women), shall expiate a crime of this kind by being burned to death in the public sight of the people." -Codex Theodosius IX. Vii. 6
 

Aaron Lindahl

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What follows are quotes from the legal code of the Roman Empire as set forth by the Emperor Theodosius at the request of Christian leaders to crush all other competing religions and difference of opinion. The legal persecution of non-Christian religions by Rome marked the beginning of a wave of religious terror that would remain in place until the eighteenth century.

THE BURNING OF NON-CHRISTIAN BOOKS:

"All writings whatever which Porphyry or anyone else has written against the Christian religion, in the possession of whomsoever they shall be found, shall be committed to the fire." -- Emperor Theodosius I.

LAW BANNING FREEDOM OF RELIGION:

"We command that all those proved to be devoting themselves to sacrificing or worshipping images be subject to the penalty of death." -- Codex Theodosianus, XVI.10.6

"It is Our will that all the peoples who are ruled by the administration of Our Clemency shall practice that religion which the divine Peter the Apostle transmitted to the Romans. According to the apostolic teaching and the doctrine of the Gospel, let us believe in the one deity of the father, Son and Holy Spirit, in equal majesty and in a holy Trinity. ... The rest, whom We adjudge demented and insane, shall sustain the infamy of heretical dogmas, their meeting places shall not receive the name of churches, and they shall be smitten first by divine vengeance and secondly by the retribution of Our own initiative." -- Codex Theodosianus, XVI.1.2.

EDICTS AGAINST NON-CHRISTIAN WORSHIP:

"No one shall consult a soothsayer, astrologer or diviner. The perverse pronouncements of augurs and seers must fall silent. ... The universal curiosity about divination must be silent forever. Whosoever refuses obedience to this command shall suffer the penalty of death and be laid low by the avenging sword." -- Codex Theodosianus, IX.16.4

"The ability and right of making wills shall be taken from those who turn from Christians to pagans, and the testament of such an one, if he made any, shall be abrogated after his death."-- Codex Theodosianus, XVI.7.1.

THE DESTRUCTION OF ALL PLACES SACRED TO THE PEOPLE:

"It is decreed that in all places and all cities the [pagan] temples should be closed at once, and after a general warning, the opportunity of sinning be taken from the wicked. We decree also that we shall cease from making sacrifices. And if anyone has committed such a crime, let him be stricken with the avenging sword. And we decree that the property of the one executed shall be claimed by the city, and that rulers of the provinces be punished in the same way, if they neglect to punish such crimes."-- Codex Theodosianus, XVI.10.4.


DESTRUCTION OF FREEDOM OF THOUGHT:

"It should be enough for you to know that there is a good shepherd who gave his soul for his sheep ... How big God is, what His limits are, and of what essence ...such questions are dangerous ... they shall be taken care of with silence." – St Basil


"What you are ignorant of, we know from the Word of God. And what you try to infer, we have established as truth from the very Wisdom of God." – Bishop Ambrose


"Let us Christians prefer the simplicity of our faith to the demonstrations of human reason ... For to spend much time on research about the essence of things would not serve the edification of the Church.' – St Basil.


For a century after Constantine's revolution, the 'battle of ideas' was waged yet secular tolerance ultimately could be no match to a fanatical intolerance similar to ISIS terrorists today.

"What purpose does knowledge serve – for as to knowledge of natural causes, what blessing is there for me if I should know where the Nile rises, or whatever else under the heavens the 'scientists' rave about?"

Thus wrote Lucius Lactantius the first Latin 'theologian' and propagandist for Constantine. Appointed tutor to the emperor's son Crispus – a job he lost when Constantine had his son executed for adultery with his stepmother – Lactantius recorded that Constantine was "a model of Christian virtue and holiness" (De Mortibus Persecutorum).

In the new world of the Christian empire, in which scientific rationalism was to be condemned as demonic, Constantine's despotism and Lactantius's sycophantic lies were indeed 'model' for what was to come.

For the first 300 years of Christianity, gay people were not persecuted, but instead were welcomed into the Church... but as soon as the bishops of the newly ‘Christian’ emperors had gained political dominance, look how quickly and brutally things changed.. this is why our Founding Fathers wisely chose to separate Church and State:

305-306 – Council of Elvira (now Granada, Spain). This council was representative of the Western European Church and among other things, it barred homosexuals the right to Communion.

314 – Council of Ancyra (now Ankara, Turkey). This council was representative of the Eastern European Church and it excluded the Sacraments for 15 years to unmarried men under the age of 20 who were caught in homosexual acts, and excluded the man for life if he was married and over the age of 50.

342 – Under advice from their bishops, the first law against same-sex marriage was promulgated by the Christian emperors Constantius II and Constans.

390 – Under advice from their bishops, Christian emperors Valentinian II, Theodosius I and Arcadius declared homosexual sex to be illegal and those who were guilty of it were condemned to be burned alive in front of the public.

498 – In spite of the laws against homosexuality, the Christian emperors continued to collect taxes on male prostitutes until the reign of Anastasius I, who finally abolishes the tax.

529 – The Christian emperor Justinian I (527–565) made homosexuals a public scapegoat for problems such as "famines,earthquakes, and pestilences."

589 – The Visigothic kingdom in Spain, is converted from Arianism to Catholicism. This conversion leads to a revision of the law to conform to those of Catholic countries. These revisions include provisions for the persecution of gays and Jews.

693 – In Iberia, Visigothic ruler Egica of Hispania and Septimania, demanded that a Church council confront the occurrence of homosexuality in the Kingdom. The Sixteenth Council of Toledo issued a statement in response, which was adopted by Egica, stating that homosexual acts be punished by castration, exclusion from Communion, hair shearing, one hundred stripes of the lash, and banishment into exile.

1120 – Baldwin II of the Kingdom of Jerusalem, convenes the Council of Nablus to address the vices within the Kingdom. The Council calls for the burning of individuals who perpetually commit homosexual acts.

1179 – The Third Lateran Council of Rome issues a decree for the excommunication of homosexuals.

1232 – Pope Gregory IX starts the Inquisition in the Italian City-States. Some cities called for banishment and/or amputation as punishments for 1st- and 2nd-offending homosexuals and burning for the 3rd or habitual offenders.

1260 – In France, first-offending homosexuals lost their testicles, second offenders lost their member, and third offenders were burned. Women caught in same-sex acts could be mutilated and executed as well.

1265 – Thomas Aquinas argues that homosexuality is second only to murder in the ranking of sins.

1283 – The French Civil Code dictated that convicted homosexuals should not only be burned but also that their property would be forfeited.

1370s – Jan van Aersdone and Willem Case were two men executed in Antwerp in the 1370s. The charge against them was same gender intercourse. Aersdone and Case stand out because records of their names have survived.

1432 – In Florence the first organization specifically intended to prosecute homosexuality is established, the "Night Officials", which over the next 70 years arrest about 10,000 men and youths.

1451 – Pope Nicholas V enables the papal Inquisition to persecute men who practice homosexuality.

1475 – In Peru, a chronicle written under the Capac Yupanqui government describes the persecution of homosexuals with public burnings and destruction of homes (a practice usually reserved for conquered tribes).

1483 – The Spanish Inquisition begins. Homosexuals were stoned, castrated, and burned. Between 1540 and 1700, more than 1,600 people were prosecuted for homosexuality.

1532 – Holy Roman Empire makes homosexuality punishable by death.

1533 – King Henry VIII passes the Buggery Act 1533 making anal intercourse punishable by death throughout England.

1620 – Brandenburg-Prussia criminalizes homosexuality, making it punishable by death.

1721 – Catherina Margaretha Linck is executed for lesbianism in Germany.

1836 – The last known execution for homosexuality in Great Britain. James Pratt and John Smith are hanged at Newgate prison, London after being caught together in private lodgings.

1895 – The trial of Oscar Wilde results in his being prosecuted under the Criminal Law Amendment Act 1885 for "gross indecency" for having sex with other males, and is sentenced to two years hard labor in prison, ruining his health.

1903 – In New York on 21 February 1903, New York police conducted the first United States recorded raid on a gay bathhouse, the Ariston Hotel Baths. 26 men were arrested and 12 brought to trial on sodomy charges; 7 men received sentences ranging from 4 to 20 years in prison.

1945 – Upon the liberation of Nazi concentration camps by Allied forces, those who were interned for homosexuality, and who miraculously survived.. are not freed, but required to serve out the full term of their sentences under Paragraph 175.

1954 – June 7th –Mathematical computer genius and WW2 hero Alan Turing commits suicide by cyanide poisoning, 18 months after being given a choice between two years in prison or libido-reducing hormone treatment for a year as a punishment for homosexuality.

I list this history and the historical persecution of gays so that we as Christians never again allow the desire to condemn others over their sins to become something evil and destructive.
 
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Aaron Lindahl

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What is the specific question you are proposing to debate?

As in "Resolved, ----"

It was in the title. My question is can anyone honestly deny the history of persecution inflicted upon gay people under the name of Christ?
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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MOD HAT...

This thread is a debate and discussion thread and is therefore off topic to the formal debate proposal forum.

This thread has been moved to General Theology which is better suited to the topic.

Mark
Advisers Assistant.
 
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Steeno7

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It was in the title. My question is can anyone honestly deny the history of persecution inflicted upon gay people under the name of Christ?

I cannot deny that there have been multiple atrocities inflicted upon not just gays, but all of humanity, in the name of Christ. The question that needs to be answered is if just because something is done in the name of Christ, does that necessarily mean it is of Christ?
 
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SoldierOfTheKing

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Aaron Lindahl said:
It was in the title. My question is can anyone honestly deny the history of persecution inflicted upon gay people under the name of Christ?

So you're simply making the factual claim that Christendom has historically regarded sexual activity between males as a serious crime and punished it as such. Have you heard of anyone who has disputed that? I haven't.

Well there was book published about twenty years ago by an author named John Boswell arguing that "same-sex unions" were widely accepted in Europe until the Late Middle Ages. It made news at the time, but it didn't change the consensus of medieval scholarship. I certainly don't give it any credence, and going by your OP, it doesn't sound like you would either
 
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BobRyan

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While I agree with the idea that we need to have religious liberty - at the same time I think that Lev 18 is correct when it says that God will wipe out an entire pagan or Bible-literate nation for certain abominations - the homosexual agenda appears in Lev 18 as one of the items on that list.

It is not too surprising that once Rome was fully committed to going down that road - the empire was doomed. Not because Christians would be raised up to stop it - far from it. God moved upon the invading Germanic pagan tribes to bring down Rome.

in Christ,

Bob
 
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~Anastasia~

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You do however bring up a very large set of ideas and statements. Forgive me, but I don't have the time nor the expertise to address everything.

I would not be surprised that persecutions have happened - many such things as could be labeled "persecution" have happened within Christianity.

However ... just in glancing over your list quickly, a few things come to mind. (Not that I'm arguing against you, but it is much easier to spot points that might not be properly applied where research would be required to support ones that perhaps may be.)

With that said.

Regarding the destruction of pagan places of worship - God Himself commands this in Scripture. So I am not sure how firm a ground you stand on in complaining against this. Of course, our society (in the US and now in much of the world) is built upon "tolerance" and all are allowed to worship as they wish. But your argument seems to be that it is wrongful persecution, and if you use this in support, then you essentially accuse God of wrongful persecution as well.

Regarding the edicts against consulting soothsayers and diviners, etc. ... see above. Your argument is first against God, it would seem.

Regarding the Church passing the penalty of not allowing communion for a time to those who are charged with homosexual acts - it would be important to compare the penalties against those for heterosexual fornication and adultery. The Church has always disapproved of sexual acts outside of marriage - if the penalties for heterosexual acts are similar to those for homosexual acts, it does not stand as focused persecution.

And finally, in reading the quotes that are charged with Destruction of freedom of thought - are there references for these? I tried to search for them to read them in context, and I find only repeated references (with no context provided) in mostly anti-Christian books. The reason I am asking is that St. Basil is saying (to my ears) that one cannot fathom the depths of God (essence is often used in discussing "what God is") ... and without the context, I am more inclined to think he may very well be saying that it is pointless to try and understand the depths of God - not that he is denying the right of people to think.

That's just a quick glance-over. There may be more. My point is that, if something is going to be used to support an argument, the evidences themselves ought to be examined carefully.

The particular instances you cite within history appear to be more along the lines of supporting evidence for your argument. However, a good many of them appear to have no perpetrator identified ... in order to use them to argue (if you are saying Christianity is responsible) ... then in the cases where the opposition is unidentified or is the government, I'm not sure these should be used.

Again, I'm not arguing for or against ... I just took a look at your overall list and that is the impression I get from it. Such possible misunderstandings would only serve to cause division, and it seems prudent to make sure what is being claimed is a legitimate complaint in each case before tossing more fuel on the fire, as it were.
 
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Rick Otto

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Lest anyone accuse me of 'promoting' homosexuality, I most definitely am not. I am a Christian and am merely sharing historical reality that any university student majoring in classical history would be well aware of, and historical reality that modern day Christians should keep in mind before desiring to take it upon themselves to judge others over their sins as same-sex marriage becomes the law of the land in more and more states, and more and more countries.

I begin with the birthplace of our own Western Civilization: Greek and Roman civilization, and then go into a detailed history of the Church. Homosexuality flourished for over 1,300 years within the Greek culture, and for almost 900 years of Roman culture without causing any ‘downfall’ of civilization as some people today claim will happen if gay people are allowed to marry each other. Their sin is between God and themselves, but does not cause the sky to fall.
9
Yet, within a little over 100 years after Christians gained political dominance in Rome, the entire civilization collapsed, not because of a few barbarian incursions... but instead after those 'Christians' had forbade freedom of religion under pain of death, freedom of thought under pain of death, shut down the Olympics, the theaters, the gymnasiums, and schools of learning. Knowledge of realistic artwork and sculpture was lost, scientific knowledge and civic engineering withered and died.

They basically killed civic culture and classical civilization. The public libraries were either closed or abandoned since within only 2 generations the majority of the people had lost the ability to read.. after all, you were told the world was going to end at any moment, and that you only needed to know what your priest or pastor told you to believe, you were told that interest in secular knowledge was no longer necessary. The ancient world was a relatively tolerant place in the world of religion. There were occasional bursts of persecution of this or that sect but as a rule many religions existed side by side.

The consensus among modern historians is that republican Rome, like classical Greece, was tolerant of same-sex relationships. Moreover, the Romans accorded same-sex unions the legal or cultural status of marriages. To take one early example, Cicero, the great Roman lawyer and orator, persuaded Curio the Elder to honor the debts that Curio's son had incurred on behalf of Antonius, to whom the son was, in Cicero's words, "united in a stable and permanent marriage, just as if he had given him a matron's stola." (The stola was garb distinctively reserved for a married Roman woman. "Te a meretricio quaestu abduxit et, tamquam stolam dedisset, in matrimonio stabili et certo collocavit.")

Cicero's legalistic advice shows that same-sex relationships were not only socially accepted among Roman society, but that they also potentially carried with them legal obligations and consequences, and hence were marriages as we understand the term. Records describing Roman social customs during the imperial period survive in far greater number, at least in part because many, if not most, of the emperors enjoyed well-documented relationships, some of them legally sanctioned marriages-with other men. The evidence suggests that during the same general time frame when companionate long-term marriages were being institutionalized for different-sex couples, they were likewise becoming more common for same-sex couples, who were entering into relationships akin to those discussed in Plato's Symposium.

By the time of the early Empire the stereotyped roles of [sexually active] "lover" and [sexually passive] "beloved" no longer seem to be the only model for homosexual lovers. Many homosexual relationships were permanent and exclusive. Among the lower classes informal unions like that of Giton and Encolpius may have predominated, but marriages between males or between females were legal and familiar among the upper classes.... By the time of the early Empire references to gay marriages are commonplace. The biographer of Elagabalus maintains that after the emperor's marriage to an athlete from Smyrna, any male who wished to advance at the imperial court either had to have a husband or pretend that he did.

Martial and Juvenal both mention same-sex public ceremonies involving the families, dowries, and legal niceties. It is clear that not only aristocrats were involved: a cymbal player is mentioned by Juvenal. Martial points out that both men involved in one ceremony were thoroughly masculine ("The bearded Callistratus married the rugged Afer") and that the marriage took place under the same law that regulated marriage between men and women. Nero married two men in succession, both in public ceremonies with the ritual appropriate to legal marriage. At least one of these unions was recognized by Greeks and Romans, and the spouse was accorded the honors of an empress .... One of the men, Sporus, accompanied Nero to public functions, where the emperor would embrace him affectionately. He remained with Nero throughout his reign and stood by him as he died.

Same-sex unions were noted in popular Roman culture and literature as well. The novel Babylonica, an early version of the pulp romance, had a subplot involving the passion of Egypt's Queen Berenice for the beautiful Mesopotamia, who was snatched from her. After one of the Queen's servants rescued Mesopotamia from her abductors, "'Berenice married Mesopotamia, and there was war between [the abductor] and Berenice on her account.' " Of even greater renown, the Emperor Hadrian's love for Antinous attained the status of legend, acclaimed for generations in sculpture, architecture, painting, coins, and literature.

The popularity of Hadrian and Antinous as a couple, was likely due to the prevalence of same-sex couples in popular romantic literature of the time. Everywhere in the fiction of the Empire-from lyric poetry to popular novels-gay couples and their love appear on a completely equal footing with their heterosexual counterparts.

During the years 342 CE to 395 CE all this changed when Christianity established itself as the only religion in the Roman Empire and launched an all out campaign of religious terror against all other beliefs. Even though Christians had suffered from persecution from time to time, this does not justify what they did upon coming to political dominance, and had gained the ear of an emperor, whose word was law.

It was not until the Roman world was forcibly converted, and succumbed to an unforgiving and dictatorship-like form of Christianity (completely unlike the first 3 centuries of a peaceful and loving form of Christianity), that we began to embark upon the Dark Ages.

PERSECUTION OF HOMOSEXUALS BEGINS:

On December 16, 342 AD, the Christian emperors Constantius II and Constans, under advice from their bishops, issued the following edict.. a law specifically outlawing marriages between men, which had previously been allowed, and reads as follows:

"When a man marries in the manner of a woman, a woman about to renounce men, what does he wish, when sex has lost its significance; when the crime is one which it is not profitable to know; when Venus is changed into another form; when love is sought and not found? We order the statutes to arise, the laws to be armed with an avenging sword, that those infamous persons who are now, or who hereafter may be guilty, shall be subjected to exquisite punishment." (Theodosian Code 9.7.3)

Then, 48 years later, Christian emperors Theodosius and Arcadius on Aug 6, 390, under the advice of their bishops, issued the following edict.. an edict that would begin an evil persecution towards gay people that would last until very recently: "All persons who have the shameful custom of condemning a man's body, acting the part of a woman's to the sufferance of alien sex (for they appear not to be different from women), shall expiate a crime of this kind by being burned to death in the public sight of the people." -Codex Theodosius IX. Vii. 6

Thank you.
 
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graceandpeace

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I'm not interested in checking into the rather long list of statements, etc in the OP; however, I would agree that LGBT people have faced (& still face) certain discriminations & stereotypes that are harmful & especially unfortunate when coming from self-identified Christians.
 
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Whatever the statements of Constantine meant in context,on the matter of eastern Christianity and science, it would be advisable to do some research (for ex., they invented the 'modern' hospital with sanitary conditions, and free health care)

Byzantine hospitals
http://www2.classics.unibo.it/eikasmos/doc_pdf/studi_online/02_zipser_medical_books.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hospital#Roman_Empire

Eastern Christians also preserved and taught from ancient documents on science and mathematics, etc.

Most of the ancient Classical literature which survives today was preserved through the Byzantine Empire. The majority of the works of philosophers such as Aristotle and Plato, and the historical texts of Greece and Rome were saved by Byzantine scholars who maintained the ancient traditions of literature and learning. Works that had been lost for centuries in the West were reintroduced by Byzantines fleeing the final occupation of Constantinople, the last capital of the Empire, in 1453.


http://www.byzantiumnovum.org/byzantium_important.htm
https://books.google.com/books?id=a...zantine empire science and technology&f=false (see chapter 6)
 
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elliott95

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I seriously doubt that the history of the persecution of homosexuality begins with the Christian Empire.
Homosexuality itself involves a wide variety of different behaviors and attitudes that have varied widely over time and cultures, and what is defined as homosexuality today in Western society is a far cry from what was practiced in the bathhouses of Athens and Rome.

The sexuality of the early Roman Empire was not based in egalitarian relationships between two consenting adults either. There were those in the power, taking their pleasure, and those without, serving the sexual desires of their masters.

It is a recreation of the history to suggest otherwise.
 
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Aaron Lindahl

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The people who I refer to that committed the atrocities I listed in our past are the same type of Christians today who constantly say that 'God' is the one judging on these sins, and that they are merely following His commands, regrettably harsh as they may seem they piously point out, but it is not God down here speaking through a burning bush.. rejecting, condemning, and making other people feel like dirt or worthless, but rather 'they' themselves who are doing that, while exhorting others to do the same sinful and hateful thing; thus taking the place of God in doing so. We can see that happening on a much more violent level today in Islam by the ISIS and Al-Qaeda fanatics... who seem to believe that they are 'Allah' or 'God' themselves on this Earth, and take it upon themselves to brutalize, condemn, reject, judge, and in many cases kill the perceived 'sinners' in the name of their God, ignoring all teachings of love and acceptance of our fellow human souls we share this Earth with. Thus began the shameful Christian Inquisition of our past... from precisely such misguided people. For 'our' religion of Christ's teachings, I think the following Biblical Scripture describes them very well, as they are the modern day equivalent of the Pharisees, who used the 'Law' at the time to condemn all others over even the slightest variance from such rigid, static, and unforgiving beliefs, and who even plotted to arrest and then assassinate Jesus Himself, over breaking Scriptural Law because He 'worked' on the Sabbath by picking grain from the fields to feed his hungry followers. Their professed 'love' of others (i.e. 'love the sinner, hate the sin') is the same type of love as a spouse who beats his wife almost to death, and then tells her "I love you so much." It is a truly evil and hateful sickness of both the spirit and the mind, that they infect entire congregations with:

1 Corinthians 13:4-8

"Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails."

James 4:12

"God alone, who gave the law, is the Judge. He alone has the power to save or to destroy. But you--who do you think you are to judge your neighbor?"

Matthew 23:13-15

“But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in. Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves."

Matthew 23:28

"In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness."

Matthew 23:27

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead people's bones and all that is foul and unclean."
 
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