Can anyone clarify this?

[Imblessed]

Visage of Glory wrote this in another post: Satan's plan was to save everyone no matter what, and then take the glory upon himself. That is tyrannical, and tyranny is evil.



I was wondering if anyone can clarify this? Maybe expand on it? Perhaps tell me how this came to be taught?

I have never heard this before, ever, and was wondering if a mormon could show me where it's taught?

 

[Cröe]

I have never heard this before, ever, and was wondering if a mormon could show me where it's taught?

One place you can read about it is

[Staff Edit]

 

[Blackmarch]

Visage of Glory wrote this in another post: Satan's plan was to save everyone no matter what, and then take the glory upon himself. That is tyrannical, and tyranny is evil.



I was wondering if anyone can clarify this? Maybe expand on it? Perhaps tell me how this came to be taught?

I have never heard this before, ever, and was wondering if a mormon could show me where it's taught?

These might help, taken from the LDS Bible Dictionary.

BIBLE DICTIONARY​

WAR IN HEAVEN

This term arises out of Rev. 12: 7 and refers to the conflict that took place in the premortal existence among the spirit children of God. The war was primarily over how and in what manner the plan of salvation would be administered to the forthcoming human family upon the earth. The issues involved such things as agency, how to gain salvation, and who should be the Redeemer. The war broke out because one-third of the spirits refused to accept the appointment of Jesus Christ as the Savior. Such a refusal was a rebellion against the Father’s plan of redemption. It was evident that if given agency, some persons would fall short of complete salvation; Lucifer and his followers wanted salvation to come automatically to all who passed through mortality, without regard to individual preference, agency, or voluntary dedication (see Isa. 14: 12-20; Luke 10: 18; Rev. 12: 4-13; D&C 29: 36-38; Moses 4: 1-4). The spirits who thus rebelled and persisted were thrust out of heaven and cast down to the earth without mortal bodies, “and thus came the devil and his angels” (D&C 29: 37; see also Rev. 12: 9; Abr. 3: 24-28).

The warfare is continued in mortality in the conflict between right and wrong; between the gospel and false principles, etc. The same contestants and the same issues are doing battle, and the same salvation is at stake.

Although one-third of the spirits became devils, the remaining two-thirds were not all equally valiant, there being every degree of devotion to Christ and the Father among them. The most diligent were chosen to be rulers in the kingdom (Abr. 3: 22-23). The nature of the conflict, however, is such that there could be no neutrals, then or now (Matt. 12: 30; 1 Ne. 14: 10; Alma 5: 38-40).

BIBLE DICTIONARY​

DEVIL
The English word devil in the KJV is used to represent several different words in Greek, i.e., slanderer, demon, and adversary, and Hebrew, i.e., spoiler. The devil is the enemy of righteousness and of those who seek to do the will of God. Literally a spirit son of God, he was at one time “an angel” in authority in the presence of God; however, he rebelled in the premortal life, at which time he persuaded a third of the spirit children of the Father to rebel with him, in opposition to the plan of salvation championed by Jehovah (Jesus Christ). “Thus came the devil and his angels” (D&C 29: 37). They were cast out of heaven, and were denied the experience of mortal bodies and earth life (Isa. 14: 12-15; Rev. 14: 4-9; 2 Ne. 2: 17; 2 Ne. 9: 8; D&C 29: 36-38; D&C 76: 25-26; D&C 93: 25; Moses 4: 1-4; Abr. 3: 27-28).

Latter-day revelation confirms the biblical teaching that the devil is a reality and that he does strive to lead men and women from the work of God. One of the major techniques of the devil is to cause human beings to think they are following God’s ways, when in reality they are deceived by the devil to follow other paths.

Since the devil and his premortal angels have no physical body of flesh and bones, they often seek to possess the bodies of mortal beings. There are many such instances recorded in scripture (Matt. 9: 32; Matt. 12: 22; Mark 1: 24; Mark 5: 7; Luke 8: 30; Acts 19: 15; cf. Mosiah 3: 6). Such can be evicted by the power of faith in Jesus Christ and the exercise of the holy priesthood. Jesus gave this power to his disciples (Matt. 10: 1; Mark 16: 17; Luke 10: 17; Acts 5: 16; D&C 84: 67).

The devil is called the prince of this world (John 12: 31; John 14: 30; John 16: 11); the adversary (1 Pet. 5: 8); Beelzebub, meaning the prince of the devils (Mark 3: 22); the wicked one (Matt. 13: 38); the enemy (Matt. 13: 39); Lucifer (Isa. 14: 12; D&C 76: 26); Satan (Rev. 12: 9); prince of the power of the air (Eph. 2: 2-3); Perdition (D&C 76: 26); son of the morning (D&C 76: 26-27); that old serpent (Rev. 12: 9; D&C 76: 28); the great dragon (Rev. 12: 7-9); a murderer from the beginning (John 8: 44); a liar from the beginning (D&C 93: 25); and the accuser (Rev. 12: 10).

He is miserable in his situation, and “stirreth up the children of men unto secret combinations of murder and all manner of secret works of darkness” (2 Ne. 9: 9). He tries to imitate the work of God by transforming himself nigh unto an angel of light (2 Cor. 11: 12-15; 2 Ne. 9: 9; D&C 128: 20). He is also a worker of miracles, by which he deceives many upon the earth (Rev. 13: 1-15). In fact, the scripture says he deceives the whole world (Rev. 12: 9). He can cite scripture to make his point seem plausible (Matt. 4: 1-11). All of this is his scheme to make man miserable like himself. Protection against the influence of the devil is found by obedience to the commandments and laws of the gospel of Jesus Christ. The message of all the prophets and apostles is that truth, righteousness, and peace shall in the end prevail over error, sin, and war; the faithful shall triumph over all their afflictions and enemies, and shall triumph over the devil. There shall be a complete and lasting victory of righteousness over wickedness on this earth, which will be done by the power of the Lord Jesus Christ.



PS
if you don't have access to any of the (BoM) scriptural references, ask for them to be posted and one would be happy to do so. Biblical references use the KJV.

 

[Who]

Visage of Glory wrote this in another post: Satan's plan was to save everyone no matter what, and then take the glory upon himself. That is tyrannical, and tyranny is evil.



I was wondering if anyone can clarify this? Maybe expand on it? Perhaps tell me how this came to be taught?

I have never heard this before, ever, and was wondering if a mormon could show me where it's taught?

I'll see what I can do though I'm probably not the most experienced.

This comes from the book of Moses.

The book of Moses we believe to be a modern revelation which gives further light as to why the war in heaven was fought (Rev. 12:7-12)

We believe that before the world was made that we sat in council to understand the need for a earth and the mortal experience. It was here that the savior volunteered to be our redeemer and mediator. As part of this plan we would have the ability to choose our own path. Satan, after Christ had been chosen to be our redeemer, volunteered that he could do it without losing one soul. Of course this would come at the cost of our agency and god's glory. This was not accepted by us. The war was fought, and here we are.

I hope that answers your question without breaking too many forum rules.

Edit: People post fast here, eh?

 

[Imblessed]

So, Satan wished to save everyone regardless of what they did on earth(something along the lines of universalist thinking), but when God said no, and appointed Jesus to be the Savior of those who choose, and decided that free will for mankind was the way to go.....Satan got mad, rebelled, was kicked out and is now taking it out on mankind?

Sorry if I'm oversimplifying, but it's easier for me this way. Now, the book of moses is what explains this right? and you are using the bible to clarify, or back up the revelations in the book of moses?

and when was the book of moses written? I confess I'm completely ignorant about this. Is the book of mormon in the BOM?

I'm not going to argue with you guys about it, it just struck me as a completely odd and strange belief, since the explanation about what the war in heaven was about is never given in the bible. All we are told in the bible is that satan rebelled and was kicked out with 1/3 of the angels.....

 

[MormonFriend]

So, Satan wished to save everyone regardless of what they did on earth(something along the lines of universalist thinking), but when God said no, and appointed Jesus to be the Savior of those who choose, and decided that free will for mankind was the way to go.....Satan got mad, rebelled, was kicked out and is now taking it out on mankind?

Sorry if I'm oversimplifying, but it's easier for me this way. Now, the book of moses is what explains this right? and you are using the bible to clarify, or back up the revelations in the book of moses?

and when was the book of moses written? I confess I'm completely ignorant about this. Is the book of mormon in the BOM?

I'm not going to argue with you guys about it, it just struck me as a completely odd and strange belief, since the explanation about what the war in heaven was about is never given in the bible. All we are told in the bible is that satan rebelled and was kicked out with 1/3 of the angels.....

I suppose that we should not find it unusual how others view our beliefs as peculiar. I have been brought up with this view since I can remember. It makes clear sense to me in the big picture.

My input to perhaps correct a significant detail you posted above is that Satan's interest was not in us and our salvation. Nor would his salvation be regardless of what we did on earth. According to his plan, we would not have any choice of what we do on earth, as we would have no agency, or freedom to choose for ourselves. Satan's plan was to force us into compliance in all things, by which he boasted that not one soul should be lost. His was a selfish nature, and it was his plan to usurp God's honor, which to the LDS is equivalent to God's power. That was his interest, not in us or our well being and happiness.

 

[Imblessed]

I suppose that we should not find it unusual how others view our beliefs as peculiar. I have been brought up with this view since I can remember. It makes clear sense to me in the big picture.

I suppose if it's all you've known, it would make sense...but from an outsiders' view...it's definately odd.

My input to perhaps correct a significant detail you posted above is that Satan's interest was not in us and our salvation. Nor would his salvation be regardless of what we did on earth. According to his plan, we would not have any choice of what we do on earth, as we would have no agency, or freedom to choose for ourselves. Satan's plan was to force us into compliance in all things, by which he boasted that not one soul should be lost. His was a selfish nature, and it was his plan to usurp God's honor, which to the LDS is equivalent to God's power. That was his interest, not in us or our well being and happiness.

I understand a bit more now, from that explanation.

thanks for explaining it. As I mentioned, I don't really want to argue it, I just wanted clarification, since Visage of Glory tossed it out like it was well known(as I suppose it is in mormon circles )

 

[Ran77]

So, Satan wished to save everyone regardless of what they did on earth(something along the lines of universalist thinking), but when God said no, and appointed Jesus to be the Savior of those who choose, and decided that free will for mankind was the way to go.....Satan got mad, rebelled, was kicked out and is now taking it out on mankind?

That sounds good, with one slight correction. Lucifer's plan entailed removing our free agency. It wasn't so much we would be saved no matter what we did on Earth as much as it was that we would have no choice but to do the correct things while we were here. We would be forced to comply.

 

[hybrid]

Visage of Glory wrote this in another post: Satan's plan was to save everyone no matter what, and then take the glory upon himself. That is tyrannical, and tyranny is evil.



I was wondering if anyone can clarify this? Maybe expand on it? Perhaps tell me how this came to be taught?

I have never heard this before, ever, and was wondering if a mormon could show me where it's taught?

Satan came to kill, to steal and to destroy.

 

[MormonFriend]

I suppose that we should not find it unusual how others view our beliefs as peculiar. I have been brought up with this view since I can remember. It makes clear sense to me in the big picture.

I suppose if it's all you've known, it would make sense...but from an outsiders' view...it's definately odd.

. . .

As odd as it may seem, if you think about it, this could very well be as it should be, as a result that God's ways are not man's ways.

Again, in light of the big picture where all of God's teachings, principles, and purposes come together in harmony, it brings together a cohesiveness of all things that otherwise have been (IMO) the source of divisions in OC.