Can any way explain ...

[Knee V]

Almsgiving is a bit tricky, however, to those who do not own anything.


The more silence we live in, the greater the potential for distraction from God.

Almsgiving isn't just about giving things away to people. It's a form of self-emptying. If you don't have possessions, give of yourself. Our treasure is to be God Himself. If we are concerned about our possessions (or our time, energy, health, etc), then our treasure is something other than God.

For that second statement that I quoted, on what basis do you think that?

 

[wayseer]

I suggest that I am about to exiled from CF.

That's OK. The forum has become little more than a money making edifice for the few at the top and has little, if anything, to do with Christianity.

The pursuit by various contributors into drugs, heavy metal, atheism, new agism and other world pleasures confirms the fact that Christianity is in crisis.

It is not that these things are to be avoid. What I find abhorrent is that they are actively promoted, accepted or excused as reasonable topics for Christian discussion.

Now is the time for true Christians to stand up and be counted.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

How about addicted to Progressive Rock? I have a serious addiction to "Yes," "Rush," "Floyd" and the gang! And a little Steely Dan!

 

[MariaRegina]

Yes, let's stand up and be counted.

Are we struggling, or are we giving into temptation, into consumerism, into egotism, etc.?

Let us fight the good fight and win the race.

 

[MariaRegina]

I suggest that I am about to exiled from CF.

That's OK. The forum has become little more than a money making edifice for the few at the top and has little, if anything, to do with Christianity.

The pursuit by various contributors into drugs, heavy metal, atheism, new agism and other world pleasures confirms the fact that Christianity is in crisis.

It is not that these things are to be avoid. What I find abhorrent is that they are actively promoted, accepted or excused as reasonable topics for Christian discussion.

Now is the time for true Christians to stand up and be counted.

When only a minority in TAW are expressing a struggle with drugs, heavy metal, atheism, etc, how can you say that Christianity is in crisis?

Although it is true that yeast can ferment the whole batch, it is also true that devout prayers of a few members can help the entire membership. That is why people go to the monasteries: to repent and then to pray for others. Without our monastics, surely Christianity would be in crisis. Remember the Arian Heresy? It was the monastics who saved us through their prayers. Without those prayers, Christianity would have been doomed as more than 70 percent of the Bishops of the Church were ARIAN HERETICS. 70 percent. Those were very dark times. Yet, Christ told us that He would always be with us, and He has. He is served to us at every Divine Liturgy.

Then there was the Iconoclast Heresy when monks were killed and icons were destroyed. Yet, through the grace of Christ, we survived that heresy too.

Christ did warn us that in the End Times, the faith of many would grow cold, parents would turn against children and children against parents, etc. We are always in the End Times as we do not know when Christ will come. We must fight against temptation and resist the Evil One who roams the world seeking whom he may devour. Resist him firm in the faith.

Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on us all and save us.

 

[Catherineanne]

For that second statement that I quoted, on what basis do you think that?

Testimony of saints such as St Anthony, who, the more they retreated from the world, the more they found themselves under demonic attack.

This seems to be a fairly consistent occurence.

 

[Knee V]

Testimony of saints such as St Anthony, who, the more they retreated from the world, the more they found themselves under demonic attack.

This seems to be a fairly consistent occurence.

Why would you say they were under demonic attack the more they retreated from the world?

 

[Catherineanne]

Why would you say they were under demonic attack the more they retreated from the world?

How long have you got?

Experience of abandonment - St Isaac of Nineveh and Syrian Mysticism / - Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev

 

[88Devin07]

Why would you say they were under demonic attack the more they retreated from the world?

I thought that was well known. (i'm being honest here)

 

[Knee V]

I thought that was well known. (i'm being honest here)

I'm not saying it's not. I'm contending that silence is conducive to greater communion with God, and am curious as to the basis for thinking to the contrary.

 

[Monica child of God 1]

I thought that it wasn't a matter of more demonic attack, but different demonic attack. In the world, the demons are concealed and act on us through our passions and through the material world. If we leave the world and work on overcoming the passions, we leave behind the cover that demons use to attack us: material things, tempting us to focus on other people and what they are doing (ahem, cough, cough, e.g.: this thread, cough). So it feels more intense, but is really just a different form.

I don't have any references for that right now.

M.

 

[Knee V]

I thought that it wasn't a matter of more demonic attack, but different demonic attack. In the world, the demons are concealed and act on us through our passions and through the material world. If we leave the world and work on overcoming the passions, we leave behind the cover that demons use to attack us: material things, tempting us to focus on other people and what they are doing (ahem, cough, cough, e.g.: this thread, cough). So it feels more intense, but is really just a different form.

I don't have any references for that right now.

M.

I agree. Anything and everything can be used by demons to tempt us to sin. The ways that they do it while we're in the world tend to blind us to the fact that it's happening, or at least blind us to the extent to which it's happening.

 

[MKJ]

I'm not saying it's not. I'm contending that silence is conducive to greater communion with God, and am curious as to the basis for thinking to the contrary.

This subject was addressed in a commentary I got from my church on the Lenten readings this year. What it said was this: in day to day life, there is so much going on that we are attacked by the devil without even knowing it. Most of the time the moment has passed and we remain oblivious and unaware, or we become aware too late to make a different choice.

When we retreat to the desert, or fast, there is no place for the devil to hide. He must declare himself and make warfare openly.

That is why a person in a fast, or a monastic, or whatever, sees the devil more often and more clearly - not so much that he is actually more present.

 

[MariaRegina]

I'm not saying it's not. I'm contending that silence is conducive to greater communion with God, and am curious as to the basis for thinking to the contrary.

This subject was addressed in a commentary I got from my church on the Lenten readings this year. What it said was this: in day to day life, there is so much going on that we are attacked by the devil without even knowing it. Most of the time the moment has passed and we remain oblivious and unaware, or we become aware too late to make a different choice.

When we retreat to the desert, or fast, there is no place for the devil to hide. He must declare himself and make warfare openly.

That is why a person in a fast, or a monastic, or whatever, sees the devil more often and more clearly - not so much that he is actually more present.

I agree with MJK.

When a young monastic retreats into the wilderness, he encounters the devil and/or his temptations. Real spiritual warfare then begins in earnest. That is why young monastics are placed under an elder to guide them.

 

[thefirstjustin]

Mozart's Magic Flute is more "evil" than most metal I listen to.

And it contains overt Masonic imagery, and Masonry is not looked upon favorably by Orthodoxy. Let's not forget that the Mozart opera Don Giovanni is about Don Juan who commits rape and murder.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

You had to remind me of that, dang it! I love Don Giovanni! Big fan of the Magic Flute!

And it contains overt Masonic imagery, and Masonry is not looked upon favorably by Orthodoxy. Let's not forget that the Mozart opera Don Giovanni is about Don Juan who commits rape and murder.

 

[thefirstjustin]

Perhaps you think I have gone over the top here. Perhaps I have. But I know what happens on the other side.

I have been an undercover cop and a member of a motor cycle gang. I've seen most of what happens. Clean kids suck into a system that feeds on youth and innocence to do the dirty work.

I've seen the faces of those who are the 'suits' behind it all and they could not care less for anyone except themselves. They are the face of 'respectability'. They are protected by circles of various forms of low life - the enforcers. The object is to suck the young in to do the dirty up-front work. And the way in is through drugs and heavy metal music.

A friend of mine, son of a pastor, was sucked in and told me he had to come up with $16K of he was dead in a fortnight. He won $24K on a lotto ticket - a get out jail free card if ever there was one to get. Yes, he paid off his debt but he just kept on dealing and the last I heard was that he escape death when he house was burnt down. He out at the time but his sister and friend were incinerated.

Heavy metal is an enticer - a way in - the baited trap. I know not everyone ends up alone dead in a flat but there many that do.

For these boards to tolerate part of that system is beyond comprehension. Flaunt your heavy metal taste elsewhere not in God's house.

I'm truly sorry that such tragedy has fallen those in your life. However, this is a forum and not God's house. I would never endorse heavy metal, rock, jazz, classical, country, or any other form of popular music used in the Church for worship.

I'm not going to debate your past experiences, but keep in mind for every one of your negative experiences with a style of music, there are hundreds of others who have had pretty positive experiences. You'd be surprised to know that there are a good number of metal musicians who oppose drug use, because they have seen way too many of the guys in the past die of it or its abuse years later.

Certainly in the 70's, 80's, and a good portion of the 90's there were many drug abusers, but that was not just part of metal, but of the music industry in general.

Your generalizations of metal and its fans being addicted to it are not very fair and are way off base. An addiction is a need, a craving, or a dependency that is so bad one can't live without it, and quite frankly many of us (if not all of us) don't have a dependency on heavy metal music. If we were not able to have it for a day, a week, or a month, we would be just fine. And FYI, there have been chunks of time in my life when I didn't listen to metal.

 

[Catherineanne]

I'm not saying it's not. I'm contending that silence is conducive to greater communion with God, and am curious as to the basis for thinking to the contrary.

Certainly silence brings us closer to God. And as we draw closer to God, we become more of a target to those who would prefer us not to.

Everyday life is full of distractions, which we put away when we think of God and enter his silence. At this point we may well find lots of other 'noise' that we have not noticed before.

I will leave it to other Orthodox to comment further, however. This is not the place for me to do it, which is why I just put a link before.

 

[88Devin07]

Nothing is inherently bad. It depends on how we use it...

For example, alcohol is a good thing, but if we misuse it, then it harms us, body and soul.
Drugs are a good thing, but if we misuse them, then it harms us, both body and soul. (here I'm talking about medicine vs. drug abuse)
How about music? Does music ALWAYS need to be praising God? No, it doesn't. But does that mean we should listen to music promoting drug abuse, alcholism, violence, hatred, demonic activity, etc...? No, definitely not.

I listen to all kinds of rock music, and I play the electric guitar. But this doesn't mean I believe I can listen to any kind of rock music. For example, I don't listen to Disturbed.
Do I listen to songs like Highway to Hell and Hells Bells? Yes... But I don't believe those songs are harmful or satanic in any way.

I made a friend while in Greece, he was an Old Calendarist. (not the canonical kind)
He told me that rock (and other types) music was controlled and influenced by Jewish figures in the music industry, and that they made the artists put certain beats, melodies, etc... into the music so that they act as mind control, forcing the listeners to misuse drugs, become alcoholics, commit suicide, etc...
I'm sorry, but that just isn't true... If someone chooses to enter that sort of lifestyle, that is their own choice, it isn't the fault of the music. Certainly, if the music openly glorifies that lifestyle, it is to be detested, but I'll say that songs like Enter Sandman, Back in Black, One etc... don't glorify that kind of lifestyle.

I'm sorry you've gone through such hard times, and I'm not meaning to put down those lost to a horrible, destructive lifestyle, but lets put it this way... I have another friend who absolutely detests alcohol. She hates it so much because she lost a friend in a car accident to a drunk driver... Now, while I'm extremely sorry and sympathetic to her for losing a close friend in such a tragic way, that gives her no excuse to hate alcohol; by her logic, she might as well hate cars as well. (no, I'm not making fun)

You could also put it another way with the famous phrase, "guns don't kill people, people kill people". It is how we use our own instruments that determines whether our actions are good or bad, but the instruments themselves are not inherently evil or bad. (obviously unless they've been cursed or possessed, which is why we are taught to bless things before using, like food before we eat it)

Should rock music have a place in Christian music? No, it shouldn't. But does that mean we should avoid it at all costs? No, it doesn't.
Now granted, there are some people who have to avoid it, because it effects them in a negative way, think of alcoholics with alcohol... It isn't that the thing itself is bad, but that the person has a negative reaction to it. Does that mean others can't drink alcohol at any time just because that 1 person can't? No... But does that mean they should drink around that person? Certainly not...

No one is forcing anyone to listen to any kind of music. But we happen to like the same kinds of music and are discussing it in a Christian environment. I've done so many times, even with friends in church (obviously not during, usually during coffee hour, or in other social gatherings), why? because we are all Orthodox and understand a bit more about the spiritual life and guarding our souls.