Can any way explain ...

Monica child of God 1 · Jul 18, 2011

I listen to many different types of music. My husband is a big music lover, so I usually don't get to choose what I listen to. He buys the CDs or downloads the music and he buys the concert tickets. We listen to rock, alternative hip hop (not the stuff that gets airplay), blues, some country and reggae.

When I choose the music I listen too, it's usually roots reggae (the old school type) or some of the more modern dance-hall stuff but with no slackness (lewdness). I can listen to reggae all day long.

M.

seashale76 · Jul 18, 2011

MrJim said:
I think you'll see by all the folks NOT participating in that discussion that it is tiny segment of interest...unlike beer

So tiny that it is news to me.

Dorothea · Jul 18, 2011

MariaRegina said:
My husband is still into rock n roll (40s to 60s), country, bluegrass, Dixie music, and jazz. Recently, he has been listening to KAPA in the afternoons because he likes the Aloha spirit. He also likes to listen to the Big Band era especiallyTommy and Jimmy Dorsey.

When we met, my husband introduced me to Harry Connick, Jr. and Tracey Chapman. I thank him for that.

Catherineanne · Jul 18, 2011

wayseer said:
... how addiction to heavy mental bands is part of Orthodoxy?

Such addiction is nothing more than another example how the word of Christ is being turned into worldly religion masquerading as Orthodoxy.

If this is what Orthodoxy is all about then Anglicanism is miles ahead of this lot.

I suspect that as many Anglicans as Orthodox find heavy metal music meaningful; perhaps more.

The issue of whether a particular variant of music is less Christian than another, or worse still, whether any variant of music has the potential to lead us away from Christ himself, is an interesting one. Having read the thread, I can see why you feel so strongly about the effects of heavy metal, W. No doubt it does have the potential you say it has, but I am not sure that potential is strong enough to affect our brothers and sisters in TAW.

After that I can only speak from my own experience, which is very limited indeed. As you know, W, I have a variant of post traumatic stress disorder, which means I have to be very careful what images and sounds I let into my head; they have the potential to make me very unwell if they are too violent or graphic. I can't watch disasters, or murder depictions or even the news if it gets too bad. I can read outlines of the news, but I can't let the images in. Other people can watch the same things with no bad effects whatever.

Some people are more sensitive to this kind of imagery than others. I have not listened to anything like heavy metal for many years, but I suspect it would make me unwell. I tend to be careful about music, but if given a choice (as when I am alone in the house) I prefer silence. Silence is safe, and allows me to draw closer to God.

In general, if we are serious about our relationship with God, then nothing we do will be thoughtless; the music we choose to listen to, the films we watch, the people we associate with; all will be chosen to reflect our faith. The points you raise are good ones, and worth bearing in mind, therefore.

Annoula · Jul 18, 2011

i would say that whatever activity is able to distract us from saying the Jesus prayer or other prayers then it's something we should think twice about doing it.

MKJ · Jul 18, 2011

Annoula said:
i would say that whatever activity is able to distract us from saying the Jesus prayer or other prayers then it's something we should think twice about doing it.

Hmm, that would include making pastry for me. I'm not sure I'm willing to give that up.

Faithful Skeptic · Jul 18, 2011

Catherineanne said:
I suspect that as many Anglicans as Orthodox find heavy metal music meaningful; perhaps more.

The issue of whether a particular variant of music is less Christian than another, or worse still, whether any variant of music has the potential to lead us away from Christ himself, is an interesting one. Having read the thread, I can see why you feel so strongly about the effects of heavy metal, W. No doubt it does have the potential you say it has, but I am not sure that potential is strong enough to affect our brothers and sisters in TAW.

After that I can only speak from my own experience, which is very limited indeed. As you know, W, I have a variant of post traumatic stress disorder, which means I have to be very careful what images and sounds I let into my head; they have the potential to make me very unwell if they are too violent or graphic. I can't watch disasters, or murder depictions or even the news if it gets too bad. I can read outlines of the news, but I can't let the images in. Other people can watch the same things with no bad effects whatever.

Some people are more sensitive to this kind of imagery than others. I have not listened to anything like heavy metal for many years, but I suspect it would make me unwell. I tend to be careful about music, but if given a choice (as when I am alone in the house) I prefer silence. Silence is safe, and allows me to draw closer to God.

In general, if we are serious about our relationship with God, then nothing we do will be thoughtless; the music we choose to listen to, the films we watch, the people we associate with; all will be chosen to reflect our faith. The points you raise are good ones, and worth bearing in mind, therefore.

That was a very nice post, Catherine, and I am virtually in full agreement with it. Thanks for posting it.

MKJ said:
Hmm, that would include making pastry for me. I'm not sure I'm willing to give that up.

You can certainly pray while making pastries; monks do.

Monica child of God 1 · Jul 18, 2011

My job totally distracts me from prayer. Clearly I need to quit

j/k

M.

wayseer · Jul 18, 2011

Catherineanne said:
I suspect that as many Anglicans as Orthodox find heavy metal music meaningful; perhaps more.

The issue of whether a particular variant of music is less Christian than another, or worse still, whether any variant of music has the potential to lead us away from Christ himself, is an interesting one. Having read the thread, I can see why you feel so strongly about the effects of heavy metal, W. No doubt it does have the potential you say it has, but I am not sure that potential is strong enough to affect our brothers and sisters in TAW.

After that I can only speak from my own experience, which is very limited indeed. As you know, W, I have a variant of post traumatic stress disorder, which means I have to be very careful what images and sounds I let into my head; they have the potential to make me very unwell if they are too violent or graphic. I can't watch disasters, or murder depictions or even the news if it gets too bad. I can read outlines of the news, but I can't let the images in. Other people can watch the same things with no bad effects whatever.

Some people are more sensitive to this kind of imagery than others. I have not listened to anything like heavy metal for many years, but I suspect it would make me unwell. I tend to be careful about music, but if given a choice (as when I am alone in the house) I prefer silence. Silence is safe, and allows me to draw closer to God.

In general, if we are serious about our relationship with God, then nothing we do will be thoughtless; the music we choose to listen to, the films we watch, the people we associate with; all will be chosen to reflect our faith. The points you raise are good ones, and worth bearing in mind, therefore.

'Letting stuff in' is the issue. I have come to realize that the competitive nature of theological debate within academia does something to me which I don't fully understand but which throws my relationship with God into a tailspin.

At least you are aware of the issues - most are not. Thank you for your thoughtful contribution.

Blackknight · Jul 18, 2011

Annoula said:
i would say that whatever activity is able to distract us from saying the Jesus prayer or other prayers then it's something we should think twice about doing it.

So we should all be monks?

Tzaousios · Jul 18, 2011

Blackknight said:
So we should all be monks?

The fullest expression of ascetic discipline is found in monasticism, to be sure. They are the most athletic of the spiritual athletes.

Knee V · Jul 18, 2011

Blackknight said:
So we should all be monks?

The reason that we have monks in the first place is because the average christian was no longer being persecuted, and the ascetic intensity of the average christian waned. Monastics are monastics because they are seeking to live the kind of christian life that the average christian in the world lived before world-wide persecution ended. Once we stopped being persecuted by the Roman Empire, those who wanted to keep living that way fled to the wilderness.

So, ideally, we should be striving to live a life of the ascetic pursuit of God as the monks do. It's just that the vast majority of us don't. But if we were all doing that, then we wouldn't need (or likely even have) monks, or at least not very many of them.

Dorothea · Jul 18, 2011

knee-v said:
The reason that we have monks in the first place is because the average christian was no longer being persecuted, and the ascetic intensity of the average christian waned. Monastics are monastics because they are seeking to live the kind of christian life that the average christian in the world lived before world-wide persecution ended. Once we stopped being persecuted by the Roman Empire, those who wanted to keep living that way fled to the wilderness.

So, ideally, we should be striving to live a life of the ascetic pursuit of God as the monks do. It's just that the vast majority of us don't. But if we were all doing that, then we wouldn't need (or likely even have) monks, or at least not very many of them.

I don't remember where I heard it or read it that the ascetic life is not just for monks and nuns. It's for the laypeople too, as much as is possible for us.

I like to strive toward this, but there are some limitations, obviously, that I cannot fully and totally have all my time in that one focus. But, I do what I can.

I have my music, the net, playing Mario Bros video games, and puzzles I do as my "fun" things that I guess would be called "worldly." Of course, I read, but most of the books I read are not secular. I do, once and a while, though, pick up a fiction book - I like to read the classics when I can. I've kinda lost interest in mainstream, modern fiction.

Tzaousios · Jul 18, 2011

Dorothea said:
I don't remember where I heard it or read it that the ascetic life is not just for monks and nuns. It's for the laypeople too, as much as is possible for us.

It would seem to me that not such a sharp distinction is drawn today. It would be appropriate pastoral advice for spiritual fathers to exhort their flocks to imitate the ascetic monastics insofar as they are able as laypeople. Thus, some of that life must be shown to be within their reach.

Nevertheless, the impression that I get from writings and sayings of monks from the early desert fathers, to the Kollyvades monks on Athos in the eighteenth century, is that a special tier of blessedness is attained by those who seek purification in the monastic environment. They are the true spiritual athletes and the ones who obtain the later stages of theosis in their earthly lifetimes.

This is how Clement of Alexandria can speak about special Christian philosopher thrones that are distributed to those ascetics whose nous has been purified to the point of virtual dispassion. In the later Palamite tradition, Gregory himself and Nikodemos of the Holy Mountain relate much the same thing in terms of hesychastic practice.

MariaRegina · Jul 18, 2011

Catherineanne said:
I suspect that as many Anglicans as Orthodox find heavy metal music meaningful; perhaps more.

The issue of whether a particular variant of music is less Christian than another, or worse still, whether any variant of music has the potential to lead us away from Christ himself, is an interesting one. Having read the thread, I can see why you feel so strongly about the effects of heavy metal, W. No doubt it does have the potential you say it has, but I am not sure that potential is strong enough to affect our brothers and sisters in TAW.

After that I can only speak from my own experience, which is very limited indeed. As you know, W, I have a variant of post traumatic stress disorder, which means I have to be very careful what images and sounds I let into my head; they have the potential to make me very unwell if they are too violent or graphic. I can't watch disasters, or murder depictions or even the news if it gets too bad. I can read outlines of the news, but I can't let the images in. Other people can watch the same things with no bad effects whatever.

Some people are more sensitive to this kind of imagery than others. I have not listened to anything like heavy metal for many years, but I suspect it would make me unwell. I tend to be careful about music, but if given a choice (as when I am alone in the house) I prefer silence. Silence is safe, and allows me to draw closer to God.

In general, if we are serious about our relationship with God, then nothing we do will be thoughtless; the music we choose to listen to, the films we watch, the people we associate with; all will be chosen to reflect our faith. The points you raise are good ones, and worth bearing in mind, therefore.

Another great post. Thanks.

MariaRegina · Jul 18, 2011

Tzaousios said:
The fullest expression of ascetic discipline is found in monasticism, to be sure. They are the most athletic of the spiritual athletes.

Amen.

Be all that you can be -- A saint.

MariaRegina · Jul 18, 2011

knee-v said:
The reason that we have monks in the first place is because the average christian was no longer being persecuted, and the ascetic intensity of the average christian waned. Monastics are monastics because they are seeking to live the kind of christian life that the average christian in the world lived before world-wide persecution ended. Once we stopped being persecuted by the Roman Empire, those who wanted to keep living that way fled to the wilderness.

So, ideally, we should be striving to live a life of the ascetic pursuit of God as the monks do. It's just that the vast majority of us don't. But if we were all doing that, then we wouldn't need (or likely even have) monks, or at least not very many of them.

Actually, the first monks were those who left the godless cities and went out into the desert wilderness during the Roman persecutions.

MariaRegina · Jul 18, 2011

Tzaousios said:
It would seem to me that not such a sharp distinction is drawn today. It would be appropriate pastoral advice for spiritual fathers to exhort their flocks to imitate the ascetic monastics insofar as they are able as laypeople. Thus, some of that life must be shown to be within their reach.

Nevertheless, the impression that I get from writings and sayings of monks from the early desert fathers, to the Kollyvades monks on Athos in the eighteenth century, is that a special tier of blessedness is attained by those who seek purification in the monastic environment. They are the true spiritual athletes and the ones who obtain the later stages of theosis in their earthly lifetimes.

This is how Clement of Alexandria can speak about special Christian philosopher thrones that are distributed to those ascetics whose nous has been purified to the point of virtual dispassion. In the later Palamite tradition, Gregory himself and Nikodemos of the Holy Mountain relate much the same thing in terms of hesychastic practice.

Another great post.

Thanks.

88Devin07 · Jul 18, 2011

We are NOT called to be monastics, nor are we called to their level of spiritual discipline.

Some are called to that vocation, but others aren't. We should not be trying to live up to that level of intensity without actually being a monastic.

Now, that does NOT mean that we shouldn't strive for more and more communion with God. It doesn't mean that we can do whatever we want and listen to whatever we want. It simply means that our calling is different.

That is why, as laypeople, if we read Orthodox books written by monastics, we need to keep in mind that is from their point of view, and that it is often written for monastics and not for the average layperson.

We should definitely aim for the same level of deification as many monastics reach. But that doesn't mean that we have to live like monastics to do so.

MariaRegina · Jul 18, 2011

88Devin07 said:
We are NOT called to be monastics, nor are we called to their level of spiritual discipline.

Some are called to that vocation, but others aren't. We should not be trying to live up to that level of intensity without actually being a monastic.

Now, that does NOT mean that we shouldn't strive for more and more communion with God. It doesn't mean that we can do whatever we want and listen to whatever we want. It simply means that our calling is different.

That is why, as laypeople, if we read Orthodox books written by monastics, we need to keep in mind that is from their point of view, and that it is often written for monastics and not for the average layperson.

We should definitely aim for the same level of deification as many monastics reach. But that doesn't mean that we have to live like monastics to do so.

Claro que si.

However, we are all called to be Saints (see your Bible).

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