Can a Christian be a Freemason???

[Floatingaxe]

I do have one observation Wayne. You are a preacher, posting on a Christian forum and 174 out of 175 of your last posts are in defense of masonry. Does this give a little insight to where your heart really is?

Yes it does. Most churches I know refuse masons as members. Any church worth its salt does. In fact, when one is going through Neil Anderson's or any other's material on gaining spiritual freedom in Christ, one is brought to face and renounce any affiliation with Freemasonry.

It is a spiritual impediment.

 

[Rev Wayne]

You are a preacher, posting on a Christian forum and 174 out of your last 175 posts are in defense of masonry. Does this give a little insight to where your heart really is?

Not really. Mine is between my lungs, behind the sternum, about two-thirds to the left of the body's mid-line, same as anyone else.

But the fact that you would go to the trouble of counting your way through 175 of my posts, speaks volumes, and reveals the habits of someone who TRULY has too much time on his hands.

For the record, if no one made ridiculous accusations against Freemasonry or Freemasons, there would be nothing to defend against, would there? Seems to me you criticize one-sidedly, especially when you consider that the accusations have been shown to be unfounded.

 

[god's_pawn]

Yes it does. Most churches I know refuse masons as members. Any church worth its salt does. In fact, when one is going through Neil Anderson's or any other's material on gaining spiritual freedom in Christ, one is brought to face and renounce any affiliation with Freemasonry.

It is a spiritual impediment.

hold on now, forgive me for jumping into the middle of a conversation right now but i had to ask: is the above statement a truly Christing thing to say? we are supposed to be reaching out and saving the lost. what's wrong with having a freemason as a member? I don't agree with freemasonry myself but that doesn't mean that i'm going to ignore every FM i come in contact with. I understand removing a FM from a church who may be teaching his FM beliefs to church member's and try to convert people, but if a FM is going to church then he is hearing the truth and may one day give up his FM beliefs. a very terrible crime against the church and/or God must be a committed for any person to be kicked from a church.

 

[Rev Wayne]

Yes it does. Most churches I know refuse masons as members. Any church worth its salt does. In fact, when one is going through Neil Anderson's or any other's material on gaining spiritual freedom in Christ, one is brought to face and renounce any affiliation with Freemasonry.

It is a spiritual impediment.

I've heard that name before, and since the recollection I had of it was that it was not a positive mention, I entered the name in my web browser, and imagine that! The very first site pulled was one detailing "Dr." Anderson's errors:

Anderson's clinical approach is wrong at the outset because it incorrectly diagnoses a Christian's problem as demon possession instead of a lack of growth or disobedience. So whether one uses a reserved or wild method is not the issue.

Christ has delivered all believers from bondage to Satan at the point of salvation. If any past sins have to be dealt with specifically because they are a special kind of sin, then it follows that Christ did not really gain victory over all the believer's sin. All sin has been dealt with at the cross.

The seven steps of Anderson's clinical deliverance approach is presented by him as the key to successful Christian living. Unless one has gone through the seven steps, the implication is that you are not free to grow in Christ. This is disturbing since these steps, arranged in this way, have been uniquely developed by Dr. Anderson. He emphasizes the importance of following and completing each step so that freedom will be accomplished. Yet this would imply that Christians of the past have not really been free to live for Christ. At best, this is highly doubtful.

The seven steps are unique to Anderson because the Bible doesn't teach such a system. Once again, if deliverance were a key to proper Christian living then the Epistles, written to teach a Christian how to live for Christ, would be teaching these things. Instead, silence on this matter speaks volumes.

Anderson thinks Christians can be demon-possessed? How novel an idea, the Holy Spirit living in the same heart with a demon! Kinda shows what sort of sources you're plugging here, huh? And following Jerry's lead, have you not noticed this man has written umpteen books, and they all seem to be on the subject of demon possession? I'd say that shows us where his heart is.

 

[JerryL]

Not really. Mine is between my lungs, behind the sternum, about two-thirds to the left of the body's mid-line, same as anyone else.

But the fact that you would go to the trouble of counting your way through 175 of my posts, speaks volumes, and reveals the habits of someone who TRULY has too much time on his hands.

For the record, if no one made ridiculous accusations against Freemasonry or Freemasons, there would be nothing to defend against, would there? Seems to me you criticize one-sidedly, especially when you consider that the accusations have been shown to be unfounded.

No, it's really a very easy thing to do and only takes about 5 minutes. The reason I checked this out is because I've been here at CF for a little while and never see you anywhere but here in masonry threads. As a matter of fact, I see you being a little condesending to christians in defense of masonry.

 

[JerryL]

hold on now, forgive me for jumping into the middle of a conversation right now but i had to ask: is the above statement a truly Christing thing to say? we are supposed to be reaching out and saving the lost. what's wrong with having a freemason as a member? I don't agree with freemasonry myself but that doesn't mean that i'm going to ignore every FM i come in contact with. I understand removing a FM from a church who may be teaching his FM beliefs to church member's and try to convert people, but if a FM is going to church then he is hearing the truth and may one day give up his FM beliefs. a very terrible crime against the church and/or God must be a committed for any person to be kicked from a church.

I agree with the bolded/underlinded completely.

 

[Jester4kicks]

For the record, Wayne, I still think you're a great guy... and you've got my support here... but Pete already deleted one of my posts in this section, simply because I'm not a christian, so I can't really help you out here... even if it is just in regards to facts about masonry itself.

(Trust me... the irony of the situation is not wasted)

 

[god's_pawn]

No, it's really a very easy thing to do and only takes about 5 minutes. The reason I checked this out is because I've been here at CF for a little while and never see you anywhere but here in masonry threads. As a matter of fact, I see you being a little condesending to christians in defense of masonry.

does any of this really contribute to the thread?

I agree with the bolded/underlinded completely.

thank you

 

[Rev Wayne]

Most churches I know refuse masons as members.

That's their problem, and their loss. Just about any pastor is familiar with the 80%-20% phenomenon in the church. In just about any church you could name, there are a committed core, usually about 20% of the membership, who are involved in positions of leadership, as SS teachers, men's/women's club leaders, trustees, visitation, evangelism, etc., and this 20% of the membership is responsible for 80% of what gets accomplished with the activities of the church. My experience has shown me that invariably, if there are Masons or Eastern Star people in the membership of the church, they will be among that 20% without fail. That really should not be a surprise for an organization who teaches initiates at the very first level of entry, that our time is to be divided into three equal parts, one third for the duties of our occupational profession, one third for service to God and our fellow man, and one third for rest. Service is a value that is pre-eminent among the things Masonry encourages.

Masonry also teaches three cardinal tenets of brotherly love, relief, and truth; three pillars of beauty, wisdom, and truth; the importance of being able to keep a confidence; taking care of widows and orphans and keeping oneself unspotted from the world (James 1:27); loving one's neighbor as oneself; three cardinal virtues of faith, hope, and love; being diligent in work and not slothful; “patience, humility, and every positive virtue."

So why is there such a clamor about "what Freemasonry teaches," when it's easy for anyone with the least knowledge about "what Christianity teaches," to see that not only is there no problem of compatibility, these things are directly derived from Christian teaching?

 

[Rev Wayne]

I understand removing a FM from a church who may be teaching his FM beliefs to church member's and try to convert people, but if a FM is going to church then he is hearing the truth and may one day give up his FM beliefs. a very terrible crime against the church and/or God must be a committed for any person to be kicked from a church.

I appreciate the comments, even if not all the ideas expressed are representative of Freemasonry as it is. No Mason I have ever met would be in a church trying to "teach his FM beliefs and try to convert people." I have never experienced Masons' involvement in churches as anything other than a commitment to serve in whatever capacity they are needed. And the idea of "trying to convert people" is off the mark on at least two major points: (1) Masons don't recruit; and (2) joining the lodge does not "convert" anyone. A Christian who joins a lodge is still a Christian, in many instances a more committed one.

 

[god's_pawn]

I appreciate the comments, even if not all the ideas expressed are representative of Freemasonry as it is. No Mason I have ever met would be in a church trying to "teach his FM beliefs and try to convert people." I have never experienced Masons' involvement in churches as anything other than a commitment to serve in whatever capacity they are needed. And the idea of "trying to convert people" is off the mark on at least two major points: (1) Masons don't recruit; and (2) joining the lodge does not "convert" anyone. A Christian who joins a lodge is still a Christian, in many instances a more committed one.

forgive me, i don't know enough about freemasonry to comment in a formal manner. either way, the thought i was trying to convey got across successfully i think, so i am content with that.

 

[Floatingaxe]

hold on now, forgive me for jumping into the middle of a conversation right now but i had to ask: is the above statement a truly Christing thing to say? we are supposed to be reaching out and saving the lost. what's wrong with having a freemason as a member? I don't agree with freemasonry myself but that doesn't mean that i'm going to ignore every FM i come in contact with. I understand removing a FM from a church who may be teaching his FM beliefs to church member's and try to convert people, but if a FM is going to church then he is hearing the truth and may one day give up his FM beliefs. a very terrible crime against the church and/or God must be a committed for any person to be kicked from a church.

A freemason is joined to a group which is satanic. They are not to be considered free in Christ, and therefore not free to embark on membership in a Christian church where he or she will be expected to lead a life worth emulating.

Let a freemason attend church but not take membership or office within it.

 

[Floatingaxe]

I've heard that name before, and since the recollection I had of it was that it was not a positive mention, I entered the name in my web browser, and imagine that! The very first site pulled was one detailing "Dr." Anderson's errors:


Anderson thinks Christians can be demon-possessed? How novel an idea, the Holy Spirit living in the same heart with a demon! Kinda shows what sort of sources you're plugging here, huh? And following Jerry's lead, have you not noticed this man has written umpteen books, and they all seem to be on the subject of demon possession? I'd say that shows us where his heart is.

That's hype. You don't know the man, yet you Google him and believe the cynics? Is that what a pastor does?

 

[Floatingaxe]

So why is there such a clamor about "what Freemasonry teaches," when it's easy for anyone with the least knowledge about "what Christianity teaches," to see that not only is there no problem of compatibility, these things are directly derived from Christian teaching?

No... pseudo, watered-down, lukewarm, facsimile of compromised Christianity.

 

[god's_pawn]

A freemason is joined to a group which is satanic. They are not to be considered free in Christ, and therefore not free to embark on membership in a Christian church where he or she will be expected to lead a life worth emulating.

Let a freemason attend church but not take membership or office within it.

I'm still not sure. how do you know that they are joined to a satanic group and what exactly is this group anyway? do you really know enough about this secret society to make such claims?

note that i'm not supporting freemasonry, nor am i attacking you, i'm simply making sure that everyone is on the right page here.

I've heard that name before, and since the recollection I had of it was that it was not a positive mention, I entered the name in my web browser, and imagine that! The very first site pulled was one detailing "Dr." Anderson's errors:


Anderson thinks Christians can be demon-possessed? How novel an idea, the Holy Spirit living in the same heart with a demon! Kinda shows what sort of sources you're plugging here, huh? And following Jerry's lead, have you not noticed this man has written umpteen books, and they all seem to be on the subject of demon possession? I'd say that shows us where his heart is.

That's hype. You don't know the man, yet you Google him and believe the cynics? Is that what a pastor does?

the whole discussion on Anderson's credentials is pointless. each of you is working off of a falacy. what he said stands. giving extra weight to his words because he has a doctorate is an appeal to authority and claiming that he doesn't have one is Ad Hominem.

 

[Floatingaxe]

I'm still not sure. how do you know that they are joined to a satanic group and what exactly is this group anyway? do you really know enough about this secret society to make such claims?

note that i'm not supporting freemasonry, nor am i attacking you, i'm simply making sure that everyone is on the right page here.

You have to study it to discover it.

the whole discussion on Anderson's credentials is pointless. each of you is working off of a falacy. what he said stands. giving extra weight to his words because he has a doctorate is an appeal to authority and claiming that he doesn't have one is Ad Hominem.

I don't work from fallacies--only the Word of God.

 

[izarya]

That's hype. You don't know the man, yet you Google him and believe the cynics? Is that what a pastor does?

Familiar tactic, no?

 

[god's_pawn]

You have to study it to discover it.

so much is obvious, would you mind answering the questions?

I don't work from fallacies--only the Word of God.

um, what i was responding to certainly wasn't a Biblical claim, but it was indeed a logical fallicy. trust me, i have studied fallacies a great deal, i know what i'm talking about.

and will you please stop posting in bold? it's rather annoying and won't help your posts in the least.

 

[Floatingaxe]

I have always posted in bold and will continue. Sorry that it annoys you.

 

[Rev Wayne]

That's hype. You don't know the man, yet you Google him and believe the cynics? Is that what a pastor does?

Who said any such thing? Did you totally bypass what I said about REMEMBERING the name from an earlier time, and the memory being recalled as NEGATIVE? The search simply pulled up, as the FIRST site pulled, as CONFIRMATION of what I already remembered from a discussion at an earlier time.

I don't work from fallacies--only the Word of God.

From what I've seen in the past, you work from nothing but your own spoon-fed imagination.

Off-topic deflection! That's a sign of hiding behind a weak argument

Interesting that this was all you had to offer, in defense of a username and a picture which are a misrepresentation of Scripture. The point being, of course, if you can't even get that right, then on what basis do you presume to criticize other Christians and claim to base it on "the Word of God?"