Can a Christian be a Freemason???

[Jester4kicks]

For those of you who know the truth when you see it, I will also touch on what "purity" means, as in "purity of life":
"The Apron is at once the emblem of purity and the badge of a Mason. By purity is meant blamelessness, a loyal obedience to the laws of the Craft and sincere good will to the Brethren; . ." ('A Lodge System Of Masonic Instruction' - Nevada, p. 28)

So, Masonry is saying that being totally without fault, obeying the laws of Masonry, and liking Masons is what is essentially necessary for gaining admission into heaven.

Pretty clear. That's the way truth is. Once can ignore it; one can deny it; one can run away from it. But it can't be changed.

Um... small correction. Well, not correction as much as pointing out that you just made a leap of your own...

The apron is a symbol of innocence, purity of life, and rectitude of conduct (as you also noted in a previous post). But where does it say that those are the ONLY things required for salvation? Where does it say if you do a, b, and c, you will get into heaven?

Masonry does not teach any route to salvation... it teaches values that are essential to leading a good life, which is a common element for most religions and their various beliefs about salvation.

 

[Texas Lynn]

Um... small correction. Well, not correction as much as pointing out that you just made a leap of your own...

The apron is a symbol of innocence, purity of life, and rectitude of conduct (as you also noted in a previous post). But where does it say that those are the ONLY things required for salvation? Where does it say if you do a, b, and c, you will get into heaven?

Masonry does not teach any route to salvation... it teaches values that are essential to leading a good life, which is a common element for most religions and their various beliefs about salvation.

Exactly. By advocating ethical behavior, charity, and brotherly love, Freemasonry never claims to do so provides Salvation.

The "faith versus works" argument is significant but to incorporate it into discussion of freemasonry is a non sequitur.

There is of course, also, though James 2:26b which notes"for faith without works is dead". In terms of the Mason who supports Masonic charities compared to the fundamentalist who argues against freemasonry by citing hoaxes and innuendo the Mason shows himself to be the man of better character every time.

OTHERWISE one merely posits a theological system in which one may commit evil after evil, repent on one's deathbed, sigh, "whew, that was close!" and hope one's other cleverly immoral friends managed to do the same, while a righteous pagan burns in hell merely for being born into the wrong culture.

 

[duanewashum]

Interesting that you would accuse others of ad hominem attacks, when that is precisely what you launched in the first post from you which I read in this thread.

After accusing those who disagree with you of being liars, you made some remarks about Masonry not being religion, or some such thing, so let's start there.

We will lay a little groundword first, regarding supposed differences between "religious" and "religion":
“Some attempt to avoid the issue by saying that Freemasonry is not a religion but is religious, seeming to believe that the substitution of an adjective for a noun makes a fundamental difference. It would be as sensible to say that man had no intellect but was intellectual or that he had no honor but was honorable. The oft repeated aphorism: ‘Freemasonry is not a religion, but is most emphatically religion’s handmaid’, has been challenged as meaningless, which it seems to be. If Freemasonry is not religion, how could it presume to aid religion?” ('Coil's Masonic Encyclopedia')

We all know of Masonry's denial of being a religion in its more circulated statements. Now, let's see, once again from Grand Lodge documents, what Masonry has to say about itself in less publicized documents:
"Freemasonry is devoted to Brotherhood, exists to furnish opportunities to its members to enjoy it, not only for its own sake but as a means to something beyond. Brotherhood rests on a religious basis; we are all Brothers, because God is the Father of us all; therefore, religion is one of the foundations of Masonry."('A Lodge System of Masonic Instruction' - Nevada, p. 42)

Of course, this very remark about the Fatherhood of God is nonsense, because Christians know we are all a part of God's creation, but are not a part of His family except by acceptance of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior; but we will overlook that for now.

The main thing I would hope you would come to understand, Lynn, is that Freemasonry is a religion, in spite of your protestations. I understand this, because at one time I would have taken the same position you now hold. As I said in the beginning, however, call it anything you wish; but in doing so, one should not overlook the obvious and pass off Church doctrine as being something nobody "should ever take seriously". Additionally, the symbolisms of Freemasonry should never be passed off as meaningless:
"One of our great Masonic scholars once said, "The symbolism of Masonry is the soul of Masonry. Every symbol of a lodge is a religious teacher, the mute teacher also of morals and philosophy. It is in its ancient symbols and in the knowledge of their true meanings that the pre-eminence of Freemasonry over all other orders consists. In other respects, some of them may compete with it, rival it, perhaps even excel it; but by its symbols it will reign without a peer when it learns again what its symbols mean, and that each is the embodiment of some great, old, rare, truth."
"In our Masonic studies, the moment we forget that the whole and every part of Freemasonry is symbolic or allegoric, the same instant we begin to grope in the dark. Its ceremonies, signs, tokens, words, and lectures at once become meaningless or trivial. The study of no other aspect of Freemasonry is more important, yet the study of no aspect of it has been so much neglected." "Take from Freemasonry its symbols and but the husk remains, the kernel is gone. He who hears but the words of Freemasonry misses their meaning entirely." ('Indiana Monitor and Freemasons Guide')

So, when people like yourself attempt to pass off actual Grand Lodge documentation as b eing meaningless, or as somehow being some sort of an ad hominem attack, it makes one wonder if you actually know the meaning of the term you have used. But, once again, I can understand your attempts to dismiss what Masonry actually teaches by calling what I have written an attack. I only say this, because your's is not the first example of this I have encountered. Seems as though many members of Freemasonry see the revealing of what Freemasonry actually teaches as being an attack upon it. Gives one cause to wonder why people, who see the truth as an attack, don't take the time to look a little deeper into what they are attempting to defend. Instead many of them, as you have done, launch a salvo of character assassination against any and all who disagree with you.

But I digress. Let's go back to that which you seem to want to label as "argentum ad hominem". It is more properly called Grand Lodge documentation. Why do you wish to label what Freemasonry teaches as an ad hominem attack against it? I'm really not seeing your point, if indeed there is a point, other than diversion, of course? But then, maybe I am just not looking at the details, so let's go over some of this again, in detail.
"The Lamb has in all ages been deemed an emblem of innocence. The lambskin is therefore to remind you of that purity of life and rectitude of conduct which is so essentially necessary to your gaining admission to that Celestial Lodge above, where the Supreme Architect of the Universe presides." ('Nevada Masonic Monitor, First Degree - Entered Apprentice', p. 14)

Is there something about the above statement, that is an explanation of the symbolism of the lambskin apron, that you do not see as being a salvific teaching? If so, please let me know so we can get to the root of your misunderstanding.

 

[duanewashum]

Um... small correction. Well, not correction as much as pointing out that you just made a leap of your own...

The apron is a symbol of innocence, purity of life, and rectitude of conduct (as you also noted in a previous post). But where does it say that those are the ONLY things required for salvation? Where does it say if you do a, b, and c, you will get into heaven?

Masonry does not teach any route to salvation... it teaches values that are essential to leading a good life, which is a common element for most religions and their various beliefs about salvation.

Glad you brought that up. I was planning on explaining it to Lynn in another post, but your comparison to what other religions say is quite direct and to the point. Glad to see that you recognize it as being salvific instruction. However, as I'm sure is being explained in other sections on this forum, salvation by works is insufficient, yet, that is what Masonry says it "essentially necessary". Christians know that which is essentially necessary for salvation is acceptance of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Our works are simply a "by-product", if you will of such acceptance, but it is the acceptance of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior that is essential.

 

[Jester4kicks]

"The Lamb has in all ages been deemed an emblem of innocence. The lambskin is therefore to remind you of that purity of life and rectitude of conduct which is so essentially necessary to your gaining admission to that Celestial Lodge above, where the Supreme Architect of the Universe presides." ('Nevada Masonic Monitor, First Degree - Entered Apprentice', p. 14)

Is there something about the above statement, that is an explanation of the symbolism of the lambskin apron, that you do not see as being a salvific teaching? If so, please let me know so we can get to the root of your misunderstanding.

Let me see if I can explain this better:

The frame of an automobile has long been the basic platform, upon which the rest of the body, structure, and engine must be built. A sturdy frame is essential to the integrity of the automobile, and therefore it's construction, assembly, and materials must be carefully designed. Without a reliable frame, the rest of the automobile is worthless.

Now, I'm obviously not saying that the frame of a car is the only thing required for a car to run. I'm only saying that it is one of the most essential elements to a good car.

I'll refrain from developing the analogy further by discussing type sof engines or choices of body styles... but I think you can see where I'm going with this.

The quotation you provided is just like what I have just described; it does not say those things are the ONLY elements necessary for salvation, it simply provides the lesson that those things are essential to a good life.

...unless you're going to sit there and tell me that, even in christianity, purity of life and rectitude of conduct are not a part of your beliefs.

 

[Texas Lynn]

Interesting that you would accuse others of ad hominem attacks, when that is precisely what you launched in the first post from you which I read in this thread.

Which is what I would say your posts have consisted entirely of. Aren't variances of opinion wonderful?

Of course, this very remark about the Fatherhood of God is nonsense, because Christians know we are all a part of God's creation, but are not a part of His family except by acceptance of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior

This remark indicates a lack of cognizance of what constitutes Christianity. Hint: YOU don't get to decide who is a Christian and who isn't and there are many variances of belief. Some believe it is a sin to pick up sticks on the Sabbath and others don't. So it goes.

Freemasonry is a religion, in spite of your protestations.

The above is a statement of opinion unsupported by fact.

Gives one cause to wonder why people, who see the truth as an attack, don't take the time to look a little deeper into what they are attempting to defend.

what a smug and contemptuous assertion this is. The idea what you say is "the truth" is merely your opinion and nothing more.

Why do you wish to label what Freemasonry teaches as an ad hominem attack against it? I'm really not seeing your point, if indeed there is a point, other than diversion, of course? But then, maybe I am just not looking at the details, so let's go over some of this again, in detail.
"The Lamb has in all ages been deemed an emblem of innocence. The lambskin is therefore to remind you of that purity of life and rectitude of conduct which is so essentially necessary to your gaining admission to that Celestial Lodge above, where the Supreme Architect of the Universe presides." ('Nevada Masonic Monitor, First Degree - Entered Apprentice', p. 14)

Is there something about the above statement, that is an explanation of the symbolism of the lambskin apron, that you do not see as being a salvific teaching? If so, please let me know so we can get to the root of your misunderstanding.

There is no "misunderstanding". The reference does not prove your point whatsoever. Your inferences are created out of thin air, like all antimasonic arguments.

One often wonders of the source for the obscure doctrine of antimasonry. It appears most often the major objection is freemasonry adovacates freedom of the individual while those who oppose it seek power over others and are certain their own flawed worldviews are right and all others are wrong. Thank you for providing considerable evidence of same.

 

[duanewashum]

...unless you're going to sit there and tell me that, even in christianity, purity of life and rectitude of conduct are not a part of your beliefs.

Not at all. I'm just going to sit here and tell you that works is not that which is essentially necessary. I'm just going to sit here and tell you that which is essentially necessary is acceptance of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Thought I made that clear in my last post to you. If not, my bad.

Even James, who is often quoted out of context, did not say everything hinges on works. What he was saying is that unless a person has accepted Jesus Christ, his works are most certainly dead; and that a person who has accepted Christ will naturally show signs of it. Meaning, the person's works are, as I have stated it before, a by-product" of his faith. The thief on the cross who, in his dying moments, recognized Jesus Christ for who He is, did the one "work", if you will, that Christ specified:
Therefore they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?”
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” (John 6:28-29)

There wasn't much else the thief could do, but what he did was sufficient because that which was essentially necessary was that he believed.

 

[Texas Lynn]

Even James, who is often quoted out of context, did not say everything hinges on works.

No one posting here is saying he did.

 

[Jester4kicks]

Not at all. I'm just going to sit here and tell you that works is not that which is essentially necessary. I'm just going to sit here and tell you that which is essentially necessary is acceptance of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Thought I made that clear in my last post to you. If not, my bad.

I think we're getting mixed up on a something simple. You continue to refer to the concept of "essentially necessary" as if it were meant to imply "solely necessary".

No such implication is made in freemasonry. Masonry makes no statement regarding all the things that are definitely necessary for salvation, because those things could be different to different people. It is up to the individual to decide what their faith means to them and what is absolutely necessary in their own lives.

 

[MissLady]

I go a Southern Baptist church and two of the very active members, who are from all I know great men in the Lord are Masons. So yeah a Christian can be a Mason I would say.

 

[Texas Lynn]

I go a Southern Baptist church and two of the very active members, who are from all I know great men in the Lord are Masons. So yeah a Christian can be a Mason I would say.

At rare intervals antimasonry revs up at the Southern Baptist Convention's annual whoop-de-do. Normally it produces a lot of publicity but antimasonic resolutions get voted down by about a 10-1 margin or better. One year a prayer was offered for then-U.S. Senator Jesse Helms, whi was in ill health at the time, and is a Southern Baptist and a mason.

 

[duanewashum]

I go a Southern Baptist church and two of the very active members, who are from all I know great men in the Lord are Masons. So yeah a Christian can be a Mason I would say.

There are good men and scoundrels in Masonry; there are good men and scoundrels in churches. Buddhist monks are considered by many to be godly men; the Pharisees were deemed to be godly men.

Masonry's membership lists have nothing to do with what it teaches. Knowing good men who are in Masonry only proves that good men can be misled.

The explanation of the lambskin apron, which teaches salvation by works is the same explanation I heard when I went through the initiatory process here in Nevada; it's the same explanation those "great men in the Lord" have heard.

The problem is not necessarily the men who are in Masonry; the problem is whether they have fully grasped what Masonry is actually teaching. There is a powerful statement attributed to the late 19th/early 20th century evangelist, R A Torrey, which I think is the root of the problem regarding Freemasonry in our churches today:
"It is possible for a man to be an intelligent Christian, and it is possible for a man to be an intelligent Mason, but it is not possible for a man to be both an intelligent Christian and an intelligent Mason; for if a man truly understands what it means to be a Christian, and if he truly understands what it means to be a Mason, then he knows that he must choose one or the other, because he cannot possibly be both."

I believe reviewing what New Testament churches have to say in their doctrinal statements regarding the Bible, God, and Salvation - compared to what Masonry teaches on these same issues - gives credence to Torrey's remarks. Too bad more churches don't require those who are allowed to become members to at least ascribe to the "meat" of their statements, and at the same time renounce membership in any organizations that are at odds with them.

 

[Jester4kicks]

The explanation of the lambskin apron, which teaches salvation by works is the same explanation I heard when I went through the initiatory process here in Nevada; it's the same explanation those "great men in the Lord" have heard.

How many different times do you need to be reminded that THAT is NOT what is taught about the apron?

I cannot think of a single lesson in masonry, that I've read or heard, that offers ANY kind of route or path to salvation. The lessons only provide good values and behaviors for leading a good life... which is a general requirement that most religions share in their own beliefs about salvation.

I believe reviewing what New Testament churches have to say in their doctrinal statements regarding the Bible, God, and Salvation - compared to what Masonry teaches on these same issues - gives credence to Torrey's remarks. Too bad more churches don't require those who are allowed to become members to at least ascribe to the "meat" of their statements, and at the same time renounce membership in any organizations that are at odds with them.

"Allowed"? Maybe it's just me... but that statement struck me as rather humorous.

I'm still not sure where you got the idea that masonry is "at odds" with anyone. Masonry is about eliminating the barriers that divide men from each other and cause conflict, so that all men can be treated with equality and brotherly love.

 

[duanewashum]

How many different times do you need to be reminded that THAT is NOT what is taught about the apron?

I cannot think of a single lesson in masonry, that I've read or heard, that offers ANY kind of route or path to salvation. The lessons only provide good values and behaviors for leading a good life... which is a general requirement that most religions share in their own beliefs about salvation.

I dunno, Jester. How many times do you have to see it in print before you will recognize what it is teaching? It isn't rocket science. It doesn't say, "Do this to lead a good life". It states what it claims to be "essentially necessary" for gaining admission into heaven. In anybody's language, gaining admission into heaven constitutes salvation. Not sure why you are having such difficulty in understanding that.

Mind telling me which state you live in? I might have something laying around that is from your Grand Lodge.

 

[Jester4kicks]

I dunno, Jester. How many times do you have to see it in print before you will recognize what it is teaching? It isn't rocket science. It doesn't say, "Do this to lead a good life". It states what it claims to be "essentially necessary" for gaining admission into heaven. In anybody's language, gaining admission into heaven constitutes salvation. Not sure why you are having such difficulty in understanding that.

Mind telling me which state you live in? I might have something laying around that is from your Grand Lodge.

OH! So you're still hung up on the term "essentially necessary".

So then you're still ASSUMING that "essentially necessary" means "solely necessary"....

Let me ask you something. Would you say that, for salvation, the christian faith requires a person to believe in Jesus, lead a good life, follow god's commandments, and ask forgiveness for their sins? If you disagree, please feel free to add or subtract elements... but I would like to know what your own faith requires for salvation. How would you explain it to a laymen on the street?

 

[O.F.F.]

OH! So you're still hung up on the term "essentially necessary". . .So then you're still ASSUMING that "essentially necessary" means "solely necessary"....

Not speaking for Duane, because I know he can do fine himself. But from my biblical view, "solely" does NOT equal "essentially." But before going there, let's see what Webster has to say about the terms.

es·sen·tial·ly

a: of the utmost importance : (i.e. an essential requirement for admission to college)

Synonyms: essential, fundamental, vital, cardinal all mean so important as to be indispensable. Essential implies belonging to the very nature of a thing and therefore being incapable of removal without destroying the thing itself or its character. Fundamental applies to something that is a foundation without which an entire system or complex whole would collapse. Vital suggests something that is necessary to a thing's continued existence or operation. Cardinal suggests something on which an outcome turns or depends.

nec·es·sary

a: of an inevitable nature : inescapable b (1): logically unavoidable (2): that cannot be denied without contradiction c: determined or produced by the previous condition of things d: compulsory 2: absolutely needed : required

sole·ly

1 : without another : singly (i.e. went solely on her way) 2 : to the exclusion of all else (i.e. done solely for money)

The biblical context declares faith in Jesus Christ as the "solely" way to heaven (John 14:6). The best example of this is the thief on the cross who died next to Jesus on Calvary. He was guilty of sin up to his dying day. It wasn't until he expressed his faith in Jesus before his death that he was saved. As a result, the Lord promised him that he'd be with him in paradise that very day (Luke 23:39-43).

However, the Bible also says in James that "good works" (e.g. purity in life and rectitude of conduct) is the evidence -- or result -- of genuine faith in Christ (James 2:14-26). So, once a person is saved (accepts Christ death on the cross as payment for their sins), ones behavior is essential to demonstrate -- or prove -- their faith is real faith, and not just a said faith. But it is NOT absolutely necessary to enter heaven, unless God made an exception for, or else Jesus lied to, the thief on the cross next to him.

Freemasonry, on the other hand, ignores Jesus as the sole means of salvation in favor of (purity of life) the evidence of salvation, which implies that it (good works) is all that is required. In other words, they put the "cart before the horse." As a result this could, and most likely does, cause non-Christian Masons to believe that their "goodness" gains them admission into the celestial lodge above, which reinforces what their non-Christian faith tells them in the first place. Because all non-Christian religions that acknowledge the existence of heaven state, in some way or another, that "if the good you do in life out weighs the bad, then you'll go to heaven."

We all may know, or can at least image, that there are some "good" Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, etc. and even Atheists that perform "good deeds." However, from a biblical perspective, none of their good performance will get them into heaven. The danger Freemasonry poses is a false hope that renders the lost (believers in false gods) a way to hell by their rejection of Jesus as Lord and Savior; and not into heaven by faith in Him. Any Christian that supports such an organization allows this to happen, as his Masonic participation gives tacit approval of their rejection of Jesus Christ.

Because, after all, doesn't the Apron lecture apply to all Masons regardless of their religious beliefs? Yet it makes NO mention of He who is the Way, the Truth and the Life (John 14:6).

 

[duanewashum]

OH! So you're still hung up on the term "essentially necessary".

So then you're still ASSUMING that "essentially necessary" means "solely necessary"....

Jester,

"Essentially necessary" isn't the terminology I am "hung up on". It's the terminology that Freemasonry is apparently hung up on, because it appears that way in virtually every Masonic monitor and/or ritual that I have seen.

And, no, I did not say essentially necessary means "solely necessary". Those are your words, not mine. If I have an assumption to state, I am quite capable of doing it on my own, and my assumption is that "essentially necessary" means "essentially necessary".

I would say that what is essentially necessary for a person's salvation is that he confess his sins, repent of them, and accept Jesus Christ as His Lord and Savior. That, as opposed to the shopping list you have put together, expecting me to revise for whatever purposes it is that you have for wanting me to do such.

As to your question of how would I explain it to a layman on the streets? Proabably the same way the churches would explain it to you:

"Since God has reconciled the whole world unto Himself through the vicarious life and death of His Son and has commanded that the reconciliation effected by Christ be proclaimed to men in the Gospel, to the end that they may believe it (2 Cor.5:18, 19; Rom. 1:5), therefore faith in Christ is the only way for men to obtain personal reconciliation with God, that is, forgiveness of sins, or justification, which was fully earned for us by Christ and is offered by the Gospel. This faith justifies, not inasmuch as it is a work of man, but inasmuch as it lays hold of the grace offered, the forgiveness of sins (Rom.4:16).” (Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod)

"Man's only hope of redemption is through the shed blood of Jesus Christ the Son of God. Salvation is received through repentance toward God and faith toward the Lord Jesus Christ. By the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost, being justified by grace through faith, man becomes an heir of God, according to the hope of eternal life." (Assemblies of God)

“In justification we are, through faith, forgiven our sin and restored to God’s favor. This righting of relationships by God through Christ calls forth our faith and trust as we experience regeneration, by which we are made new creatures in Christ. This process of justification and new birth is often referred to as conversion. Our Wesleyan theology also embraces the scriptural promise that we can expect to receive assurance of our present salvation as the Spirit "bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God.” (United Methodist Church)

“Salvation involves the redemption of the whole man, and is offered freely to all who accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour, who by His own blood obtained eternal redemption for the believer. . . . Repentance and faith are inseparable experiences of grace. Repentance is a genuine turning from sin toward God. Faith is the acceptance of Jesus Christ and commitment of the entire personality to Him as Lord and Savior.” (Southern Baptist Convention)

That works for me, for openers. You could also try that which our churches base their doctrinal statements on, namely:
Ephesians 2:8-9:
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

John 14:6:
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me."

John 3:16-18:
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
“For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

Romans 10:9-10:
that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Hope that helps you.

Didn't see where you answered my question about which state you are in???

 

[O.F.F.]

Can a Christian be a Mason?

The question ought to be, Should a Christian be a Mason?

According to the Apostle Paul, when he addressed the Christians at Galatia, a Christian can be a lot of things if he allows himself to be led by the dictates of his earthly nature (flesh), rather than the Spirit of God (Galatians 5:16-26). But, should a Christian be selfish, fornicator, adulterer, idolater or a drunkard? Of course, not! King David was a believer in the promised Messiah too, but he was also an adulterer and murderer. Yet in his repentance he was said to be a man after God's own heart.

Paul said in another place that everything is permissible—but not everything is beneficial (1 Corinthians 6:12). So again, it's not a question of can a Christian be a Mason, but should a Christian be a Mason?

Freemasonry is problematic from a Christian perspective in many ways. As an institution it does not acknowledge the exclusivity of the God of the Bible (Father, Son and Holy Spirit). It does not acknowledge the Bible exclusively as the only Holy Scripture. It is arguably a religion of its own. In its religious teachings, it ignores Jesus Christ as the only way to heaven, and the gospel as the best means to unity all men of every race, tongue, tribe and nation under God. And, as it's been discussed here, it promotes a false plan of salvation.

Can a Christian be a Mason? Sure, but after understanding these indisputable facts about Freemasonry, should a Christian be a Mason, or remain one? Answer: No, because a genuine Christian will not unless he is in deliberate rebellion against God.

 

[Jester4kicks]

Wow... this is gonna be a long one. Apologies in advance if I trim down anyone's quotes to save space.

Not speaking for Duane, because I know he can do fine himself. But from my biblical view, "solely" does NOT equal "essentially." But before going there, let's see what Webster has to say about the terms.

I see! So then you agree that masonry does not say that good works ALONE will get anyone any kind of salvation?

As for your definitions... didn't you just prove my point even further? I'm not sure what else you were trying to say there. (Honestly, not trying to be condescending or anything)

The biblical context declares faith in Jesus Christ as the "solely" way to heaven (John 14:6).

However, the Bible also says in James that "good works" (e.g. purity in life and rectitude of conduct) is the evidence -- or result -- of genuine faith in Christ (James 2:14-26).

Ok, I don't want to get into a battle of legalities over the thief on the cross... so let's save some time there.

Based on what you said, belief in jesus is the route to salvation... and a good life, with good works, would be the demonstration of that belief... right?

Ok, so if a person's faith should be real, and the evidence of real faith is a good life with good works... doesn't it stand to reason that good works would be essential for demonstrating real faith, and therefore working toward salvation?

I'm not trying to trip you up here, I'm just trying to make the point that good works and a good life are commonly-seen as essential components to real faith.

Freemasonry, on the other hand, ignores Jesus as the sole means of salvation in favor of (purity of life) the evidence of salvation, which implies that it (good works) is all that is required. In other words, they put the "cart before the horse." As a result this could, and most likely does, cause non-Christian Masons to believe that their "goodness" gains them admission into the celestial lodge above, which reinforces what their non-Christian faith tells them in the first place. Because all non-Christian religions that acknowledge the existence of heaven state, in some way or another, that "if the good you do in life out weighs the bad, then you'll go to heaven."

First, I'll refrain from commenting on some of this, just to avoid offense. However, it should be pointed out that freemasonry does not claim to offer any specific path to salvation. The banner reads "Making good men better"... not "delivering men to heaven". The allegories of free masonry don't say "bow to the compass and get your golden ticket"... but rather "the compass reminds us to circumscribe our desires".

As for non-christian masons... they can believe whatever they want within, or outside of a lodge. Masonry does not judge them for their beliefs, and it encourages them to continue exploring their faith and finding answers.

The danger Freemasonry poses is a false hope that renders the lost (believers in false gods) a way to hell by their rejection of Jesus as Lord and Savior; and not into heaven by faith in Him. Any Christian that supports such an organization allows this to happen, as his Masonic participation gives tacit approval of their rejection of Jesus Christ.

Harsh words... yet again, you really wonder why religion is not discussed within a lodge?

Regardless, I will say it again, masonry offers no route to salvation, nor does it acknowledge OR deny jesus. That's up to the individual lason to decide on their own. Strangely enough, you almost make it sound like if a mason were to be told to seek answers... at which time they go to a church and inquire about jesus... the church should either tell them to swear off masonry before entering, or they should force them to renounce their membership in masonry before they'll be "accepted".

Doesn't this seem just a bit backwards to you?

Because, after all, doesn't the Apron lecture apply to all Masons regardless of their religious beliefs? Yet it makes NO mention of He who is the Way, the Truth and the Life (John 14:6).

Precisely! Because masonry is not a religion! You're catching on!

Jester,

"Essentially necessary" isn't the terminology I am "hung up on". It's the terminology that Freemasonry is apparently hung up on, because it appears that way in virtually every Masonic monitor and/or ritual that I have seen.

And, no, I did not say essentially necessary means "solely necessary". Those are your words, not mine. If I have an assumption to state, I am quite capable of doing it on my own, and my assumption is that "essentially necessary" means "essentially necessary".

First... lighten up, you have this way of always sounding so angry. Life's too short to be grumpy.

As for the terms, it only SEEMS like you are trying to imply that "essentially", when used in the lesson of the apron, means "solely". But I'm sure we're about to explore that further... so let's continue to read.

I would say that what is essentially necessary for a person's salvation is that he confess his sins, repent of them, and accept Jesus Christ as His Lord and Savior. That, as opposed to the shopping list you have put together, expecting me to revise for whatever purposes it is that you have for wanting me to do such.

As to your question of how would I explain it to a layman on the streets? Proabably the same way the churches would explain it to you:

You would approach some layman on the street and just start throwing bible verses at them? Someone never took public speaking.

Let's make it easy, do you agree with O.F.F.'s assesment of the requirements for salvation, and his point about good deeds being an indicator of real faith? If so, just refer to my response to him... if not, please clarify (in your own words please... sorry, I just don't like bible verses).

Didn't see where you answered my question about which state you are in???

Sorry about that, I'm in Colorado.

Freemasonry is problematic from a Christian perspective in many ways. As an institution it does not acknowledge the exclusivity of the God of the Bible (Father, Son and Holy Spirit).

Neither did my high-school book club... I suppose that means it's off limits?

It does not acknowledge the Bible exclusively as the only Holy Scripture.

Oh boy... it's looking worse and worse for the book club...

It is arguably a religion of its own.

No worship, no path to salvation... how is it a religion?

In its religious teachings, it ignores Jesus Christ as the only way to heaven, and the gospel as the best means to unity all men of every race, tongue, tribe and nation under God.

It doesn't teach a way to heaven, it neither ignores nor promotes any religious figure (jesus included)... and I hate to break it to you, but requiring conformity to ANY belief isn't exactly a great way to unite anyone.

A

nd, as it's been discussed here, it promotes a false plan of salvation.

It does nothing of the sort. (Sorry, that must be the 6th time I've said that in this post)

Can a Christian be a Mason? Sure, but after understanding these indisputable facts about Freemasonry, should a Christian be a Mason, or remain one?

Um... hi, still some dispute here.

Answer: No, because a genuine Christian will not unless he is in deliberate rebellion against God.

Yeah... there's the "uniting power" of your gospel... once again, you've proven why religion is not discussed in a lodge.

 

[Texas Lynn]

...after understanding these indisputable facts about Freemasonry, should a Christian be a Mason, or remain one?

The idea your facts are "indisputable" is merely an arrogant statement of opinion.