Can a Christian be a Freemason???

I simply gave you fair warning about what God's Word says about setting yourself up as Judge in His place, which is what you were (and are) doing.

Jesus loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life. My suggestion is that you might consider getting to know Him. He has blessed my life a thousand times over, and continues to bless my life with day to day assurances of His presence with me in all circumstances. He is the most wonderful Savior and Lord, and I cannot imagine trying to live this life without Him.

I have no reason to wish you ill, and I will no longer engage in the type of exchange to which you wish to degrade this thread. This Lord Jesus is the Lord of love, and has taught His disciples to love as He loves. He tells me I am to be as He is in this world, and to love even when despised by others. For that reason, out of the many blessings I have accumulated on this forum, many of those passed along to me by loving friends, a thousand blessings are yours.

Have a blessed day, and may the light of the Savior's presence brighten your path in all the days to come.

Not necessarily related to the thread... but I thought some of the other masons in this thread might appreciate this:

The Lodge-room Over Simpkins Store
Written by MW Lawrence N. Greenleaf, the Grand Lodge of Colorado
Dated November 19, 1898

The plainest lodge room in the land was over Simpkins' Store,
Where Friendship Lodge had met each month for fifty years or more.
When o'er the earth the moon full-orbed had cast her brightest beams,
The Brethren came for miles around on horseback and in teams,
And O! what hearty grasp of hand, what welcome met them there,
As mingled with the waiting groups they slowly mount the stair,
Exchanging fragmentary news or prophecies of crop,
Until they reach the Tyler's room and current topics drop,
To turn their thoughts to nobler themes they cherish and adore,
And which were heard on meeting night up over Simpkins' Store.

To city eyes, a cheerless room, long usage had defaced,
The tell-tale lines of lath and beam on wall and ceiling traced.
The light from oil-fed lamps was dim and yellow in its hue,
The carpet once could pattern boast, though now 'twas lost to view.
The altar and the pedestals that marked the stations three,
The gate-post pillars topped with balls, the rude carved Letter G,
Were village joiners clumsy work, with many things beside,
Where beauty's lines were all effaced and ornament denied.
There could be left no lingering doubt, if doubt there was before,
The plainest lodge room in the land was over Simpkins' store.

While musing thus on outward form the meeting time drew near,
And we had a glimpse of inner life through watchful eye and ear.
When Lodge convened at gavel's sound with officers in place,
We looked for strange, conglomerate work, but could no errors trace.
The more we saw, the more we heard, the greater our amaze,
To find those country brethren there so skilled in Mason's ways.
But greater marvels were to come before the night was through,
Where unity was not mere name, but fell on heart like dew.
Where tenets had the mind imbued, and truths rich fruitage bore,
In plainest Lodge room in the land, up over Simpkins' store.

To hear the record of their acts was music to the ear,
We sing of deeds unwritten which on angel's scroll appear.
A widow's case - Four helpless ones - lodge funds were running low.
A dozen brethren sprang to feet and offers were not slow.
Food, rainment, things of needful sort, while one gave load of wood,
Another, shoes for little ones, for each gave what he could.
Then spake the last: "I haven't things like these to give - but then,
Some ready money may help out: - and he laid down a Ten.
Were brother cast on darkest square upon life's checkered floor,
A beacon light to reach the white - was over Simpkins' store.

Like scoffer who remained to pray, impressed by sight and sound,
The faded carpet 'neath our feet was now like holy ground.
The walls that had such a dingy look were turned celestial blue,
The ceiling changed to canopy where stars were shining through.
Bright tongues of flame from altar leaped, the G was vivid blaze,
All common things seemed glorified by heaven's reflected rays.
O! wondrous transformation wrought through ministry of love -
Behold the Lodge Room Beautiful! - fair type of that above,
The vision fades - the lesson lives! and taught as ne'er before,
In plainest Lodge room in the land - up over Simpkins' store.

Thanks Jester - Oh dear I fear some feat of memorising is descending upon me.

wayseer said:

Thanks Jester - Oh dear I fear some feat of memorising is descending upon me.

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I dunno... when you said that, I thought "yeah, right!"... but looking at it again, you could probably do it.

You can dress 'em up but you can't take 'em anywhere. His vulgarity got his post deleted.

Yup, them there true colors always come a bleedin' through.

Apparently the answer to the thread question is a resounding "yes."

Luther, Martin.—The great Reformer was a Freemason. We give Luther's own statement regarding it, as given to his son, Martin Gotlieb, Christmas Eve, in 1536,at his home in Wittenberg, who requested him to sing "that strange song" which he had learned when he got his medal. It was the "Mark Master's song." (From the National Freemason.) "During the night of Christmas, 1520, when I had just fifteen days before publicly burned the Pope's Bull, I sat in my study weary and heavy laden. For the bold act, while it drew my stanch friends closer around me, alienated also at the same time the more timid multitude, and I was left to a certain degree alone. Melancholy and a certain sad feeling crept over me, as the twilight passed away and darkness threw a still greater gloom over the study. But at last I aroused myself, and said, 'A helper will be raised up for me—I will have faith in this my darkest hour.' Hardly had I come to this conclusion when there came a rap at the door, and three men entered, and congratulated me upon the bold steps I had taken that day. The eldest inquired of me whether I had considered the danger and risk I ran in thus bidding defiance to the whole papal power. I replied that I did not stop to consider the probable peril in my way as long as I knew myself in the path of duty. "'Well said, Brother Martin,' replied Hans Stauffenacher, who had until then stood behind his companions; ' well said! The Guild has long thought that in thee we have found a kindred spirit, and is now ready therefore to throw its protection around thee. What sayest, art willing to become one of us ?' " I answered, 'But I am not skilled in the using of the implements of thy calling; how can I then become one of you ?'" A quiet smile played around Hans's mouth, as he said, 'Ah! there are other implements we use than thou wot'st of, implements which thou wilt find that thou canst handle with a master's hand. In the mean time, for thy satisfaction, thou mayest know that many honorable knights and princes have been made free of the but a master, in carrying out the great principles of true and untrammeled religion. It is therefore ready to extend to thee its privileges and help.'After a few seconds of hesitation I answered, ' Hans, I have known thee for many years, and am fully convinced that thou wouldst not lead me into any place where, in consistence with my calling, I ought not to go. But thy coming to-night seems to have been a special providence, for only a few minutes ago did I feel cast down in my soul, when the thought that God would raise me up help strengthened me. I am ready, therefore; lead on, I'll follow.'" My three companions then conducted me to the Guildhall, where I was, with many and ancient ceremonies, introduced among the brethren of the Mystic Tie. Judge my delight and surprise when the first thing I beheld in the room was a beautiful copy of the Holy Bible, the book which I ever acknowledged the rule for our faith. I was then told that that volume lies ever open in the hall, to be consulted by the brethren. "Rapidly was I advanced that night from step to step, until I reached the grade which entitled me to wear this medal, and know the meaning of its mystic inscription. That night I learned, too, the beautiful song which you seem to like so much. (Augustus Row, Masonic Biography and Dictionary, 1868, p. 173-74)

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http://books.google.com/books?id=jQ4...r:Row&as_brr=1

Wayne said:

Apparently the answer to the thread question is a resounding "yes."

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Sorry, that may be your answer to the question of the thread, but the answer of "NO" was well established very early in the thread. Your Masonic denial will never change it.

Wayne said:

Luther, Martin.—The great Reformer was a Freemason. . .

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What you posted is no proof that Martin Luther was ever a Mason. It may be wishful thinking on YOUR part, and that of Augustus Row, but you will not find his name on the roles of any lodge or grand lodge, or on any list of 'famous' Masons anywhere. If any solid evidence does exist that shows he truly was a Mason, perhaps you could provide us such definitive proof.

Maybe you can start with the list found at a website you frequently use to defend Freemasonry (masonicinfo.com). They have a very extensive and comprehensive list. Given the sole purpose of the website, which is to defending Freemasonry, you would think that if the Great Reformer was indeed a Mason, Ed King would certainly include him on his list of famous Masons.

Zec 1:18 Then I looked up—and there before me were four horns!
Zec 1:19 I asked the angel who was speaking to me, “What are these?”
He answered me, “These are the horns that scattered Judah, Israel and Jerusalem.” (ROMAN EMPIRE)
Zec 1:20 Then the Lord showed me four craftsmen.
Zec 1:21 I asked, “What are these coming to do?”
He answered, “These are the horns that scattered Judah so that no one could raise his head, but the craftsmen have come to terrify them and throw down these horns of the nations who lifted up their horns against the land of Judah to scatter its people.”



...

Zec 2:6 “Come! Come! Flee from the land of the north,”(ROMAN EMPIRE) declares the Lord, “for I have scattered you to the four winds of heaven,” declares the Lord.
Zec 2:7 “Come, O Zion! Escape, you who live in the Daughter of Babylon!” (ROMAN EMPIRE)





So, who are the "craftsmen" who destroy Mystery Babylon (what the Roman empire has evolved into)?

Rev 17:16 The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire.
Rev 17:17 For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to give the beast their power to rule, until God's words are fulfilled.





Craftsmen = beast/ten horns


Who are the "craftsmen"? I submit that they will be the non-elected leaders of ten world regions and are of the same people (not necessarily Jewish, by the way) who built the Israeli Supreme Court Building and who want to have a hand in building the new Temple in Jerusalem...the temple where the beast will stand and proclaim himself to be God.
The "craftsmen" are strategically moving the world towards a new world order, using oil, using inflation, playing the world like a chess game until they are in complete power.
The "Craftsmen" hate Christianity....you can't be one of them if you think that Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life and boldly proclaim it. This is why they will destroy what's left of the Holy Roman Empire when they are finally in power.

HisdaughterJen said:

Zec 1:18 Then I looked up—and there before me were four horns!
Zec 1:19 I asked the angel who was speaking to me, “What are these?”
He answered me, “These are the horns that scattered Judah, Israel and Jerusalem.” (ROMAN EMPIRE)
Zec 1:20 Then the Lord showed me four craftsmen.
Zec 1:21 I asked, “What are these coming to do?”
He answered, “These are the horns that scattered Judah so that no one could raise his head, but the craftsmen have come to terrify them and throw down these horns of the nations who lifted up their horns against the land of Judah to scatter its people.”



...

Zec 2:6 “Come! Come! Flee from the land of the north,”(ROMAN EMPIRE) declares the Lord, “for I have scattered you to the four winds of heaven,” declares the Lord.
Zec 2:7 “Come, O Zion! Escape, you who live in the Daughter of Babylon!” (ROMAN EMPIRE)





So, who are the "craftsmen" who destroy Mystery Babylon (what the Roman empire has evolved into)?

Rev 17:16 The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire.
Rev 17:17 For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to give the beast their power to rule, until God's words are fulfilled.





Craftsmen = beast/ten horns


Who are the "craftsmen"? I submit that they will be the non-elected leaders of ten world regions and are of the same people (not necessarily Jewish, by the way) who built the Israeli Supreme Court Building and who want to have a hand in building the new Temple in Jerusalem...the temple where the beast will stand and proclaim himself to be God.
The "craftsmen" are strategically moving the world towards a new world order, using oil, using inflation, playing the world like a chess game until they are in complete power.
The "Craftsmen" hate Christianity....you can't be one of them if you think that Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life and boldly proclaim it. This is why they will destroy what's left of the Holy Roman Empire when they are finally in power.

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It's always good to hear from Jen.

Sorry, that may be your answer to the question of the thread, but the answer of "NO" was well established very early in the thread. Your Masonic denial will never change it.

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That’s strange. What you claim happened “very early” in the thread, I can find nowhere in the thread at all. Perhaps you can post a link to where you thought this got “established?”

It may be wishful thinking on YOUR part, and that of Augustus Row, but you will not find his name on the roles of any lodge or grand lodge, or on any list of 'famous' Masons anywhere. If any solid evidence does exist that shows he truly was a Mason, perhaps you could provide us such definitive proof.

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Good thing you got out of the lodge, no more than you seem to know about it--or its history, for that matter. Or maybe you don't know your history of the Protestant Reformation, or perhaps it might be restricted simply to history of Martin Luther. I say this, because if you knew anything about the historical chronology of events, you would not be making such a preposterous demand.

The above remarks were in reference to an event in 1536, and even in that context, the reference is to something that happened even earlier, in 1520. Your challenge was to post evidence that his name ever appeared “on the roles of any lodge or grand lodge.” Practically any Mason I know could tell you, the Grand Lodge era of Masonry began in 1717. So your demand for any “Grand Lodge” evidence misses the mark by nearly 200 years. Someone claiming former “32nd degree” status would know better. You put your own claims of any more than nominal involvement into serious question with a faux pas like THIS one.

One thing is for sure, there have ALWAYS been rumors around alleging Luther’s involvement in Rosicrucianism. And there have been rumors about supposed Rosicrucian connections with Masonry. Given the vehemence of the objections of Catholicism to Freemasonry, a connection to Martin Luther certainly would not be that far-fetched at all.

I would also note, even people on your side of the fence seem to have the same information on this one. Eric Dubay has even written a book, “Famous Freemasons Exposed,” and makes the claim “you will see people like Protestant Reformer Martin Luther giving the Masonic "M" sign in my book.” You can find a picture of the claim here:
[URL="http://www.scribd.com/doc/3289775/Famous-Freemasons-Exposed"]http://www.scribd.com/doc/3289775/Famous-Freemasons-Exposed]Masonic Luther Picture?[/URL][/color]

The book Ancient Wisdom and Secret Sects (Time-Life Books, Alexandria, VA, p. 49), a bit more believable source than Dubay, says that Luther adopted the same symbol as Rosicrucianism, the five-petaled rose. On that one, I would not know whether the five-petaled rose was ever a symbol of either one.

I do know, in the comments attributed to Luther, it is not referred to as a “lodge,” but a “guild” and a “guildhall.” This would certainly be consistent with what is known about pre-Grand Lodge Masonry. The reference to “brethren of the Mystic Tie” would be, as well. The only other question would be, would those things have any connection to the steinmetzen of Germany of that era?

Also, the National Freemason (from which Row cited the article) was published by Albert Mackey, who even today is still recognized as a solid, reliable source of information on Masonry.

Truth is, it’s hard to establish with absolute certainty anything that happened that long ago. But with some of the Masonic “connections” I’ve seen the conspiracists come up with, I would think the accusers would have little trouble with accepting this one.

Wayne, YOUR conjecture is duly noted.

PaladinGirl said:

My opinion is that a Christian cannot be a Freemason. Freemasonry is far too anti-Christian if you ask me.

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Despite all your antiMasonic posts you don't really know what you're talking about regarding this matter and you can't be a freemason anyway, you're a girl. I have noticed some bias, prejudice, bitterness, even something like a visceral hatred of Masonry in your posts. I love being a Mason and could care less about the negativity you or anyone else has toward it. As a matter of fact, freemasonry helped lead me back to church and become saved and born again.

Wayne, YOUR conjecture is duly noted.

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As is YOURS.

I love being a Mason and could care less about the negativity you or anyone else has toward it. As a matter of fact, freemasonry helped lead me back to church and become saved and born again.

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Wonderful witness! And this is not the first time I've heard this kind of witness either. I remember one in particular, a member of a church I formerly served. She told me how her (then deceased) husband had many years earlier been a habitual drinker. After he joined the lodge, the drinking habit stopped almost immediately. Later, after he had begun reading his Bible in accord with the Masonic encouragement to "make it the rule and guide for your life," he announced to her one day: "If I'm reading this book correctly, then we need to be in church on Sunday. And from that point he was a regular at church with his family every week.

The typical response of accusers when presented with such witness is to call it "anecdotal" in the attempt to dismiss it. The fact is, with it being the most direct rebuttal of their claims of the lodge leading men away, they really don't know what to do with it, and therefore feel they MUST dismiss it as their only recourse.

Rev Wayne said:

Wonderful witness! And this is not the first time I've heard this kind of witness either. I remember one in particular, a member of a church I formerly served. She told me how her (then deceased) husband had many years earlier been a habitual drinker. After he joined the lodge, the drinking habit stopped almost immediately. Later, after he had begun reading his Bible in accord with the Masonic encouragement to "make it the rule and guide for your life," he announced to her one day: "If I'm reading this book correctly, then we need to be in church on Sunday. And from that point he was a regular at church with his family every week.

The typical response of accusers when presented with such witness is to call it "anecdotal" in the attempt to dismiss it. The fact is, with it being the most direct rebuttal of their claims of the lodge leading men away, they really don't know what to do with it, and therefore feel they MUST dismiss it as their only recourse.

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QFT Brother.

Wayne said:

"If I'm reading this book correctly, then we need to . . ."

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If a Mason, who claims to be a real Christian, 'read the Bible correctly' there is no way they would remain in the Lodge. Unless of course they ignored, don't understand, never read or don't really give a damn about Exodus 20:3, where it says "You shall have no other gods before, in addition to, along side with those who worship false gods or any other besides Me." (emphasis added)

During Masonic ritual, the candidates are asked, "In whom do they put their trust?" They are required to answer, "In God" who they are taught is the "Great Architect of the Universe." They are also informed during ritual that all Masons are to bow before the sacred name of Deity, and are told that all Masons of every country, religion, and opinion are united in the belief that they have been created by one Almighty Parent. But is this Almighty Parent or Great Architect and God of the Masonic Lodge, also the God of the Bible? The answer is clearly a resounding NO!

In the Holman "Masonic Bible" Masons are told this "Almighty Parent" is the one true God that all men worship; regardless of the name by which they identified him or it. Be it "Higher Power," Jehovah, Krishna, Buddha, Allah, "the Great First Cause," Brahma, Vishnu or some other name a Mason may choose.

It's been shared here that the Masonic Bible is actually the King James Version bound with its cover stamped with the Masonic logo (Square, Compass and letter "G"). Before getting to the actual King James section, however, it starts with a lengthy preface made up of articles and information pertaining Masonry and the Bible. One of these articles is entitled, "The Great Light in Masonry," written by Masonic authority Joseph Fort Newton, who states the following about Relgion, God and the Bible:

For Masonry knows, what so many forget, that religions are many, but Religion is one--

Holman Masonic Bible, 1968, page 35 (emphasis added)

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Newton goes on to say:

Therefore, it [Masonry] invites to its altar men of all faiths, knowing that, if they use different names for "the Nameless One of a hundred names," they are yet praying to the one God and Father of all; knowing also, that while they read different volumes [of various Books of Faith of world religions], they are in fact reading the same vast Book of the Faith of Man as revealed in the struggle and sorrow of the [human] race in its quest of God.

Holman Masonic Bible, 1968, page 35-36 (emphasis added)

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While we have gone over this time and time again, it needs to be stressed again, since you two Masons have the audacity to pat yourselves on the back, about how the Lodge made you better Christians. On the contrary, you have compromised your faith, because you are members of an organization that compromises as to who God truly is, by taking a neutral position on the matter. Genuine Christians will NOT tolerate such a compromise.

So, for the sake of new readers of this thread, let's review this again. When a Muslim Mason prays to Allah, or a Hindu Mason prays to Vishnu or Shiva, are they all really praying to Jesus? When Buddhist Masons, Jehovah's Witness Masons, and Mormon Masons pray in lodge together during ritual, are they really praying to the God of the Bible?

The answer is no, because all these concepts of God are not only diametrically opposed to one another, they are most certainly opposed to the concept of God as revealed in the Holy Bible. And, since these men of opposing faiths engage in prayer simultaneously under "Masonic brotherhood," isn't this a violation of Exodus 20:3? A genuine Christian sees that the answer is a resounding yes; because collectively they are invoking their various gods for the same purpose, at the same time, as the ONE Almighty Parent of them all.

Carl H. Claudy, another Masonic authority writes:

[The Mason] must declare his faith in a Supreme Being before he may be initiated. But note that he is not required to say, then or ever, what God. He may name him as he will, think of him as he pleases; make him impersonal law or personal and anthropomorphic; Freemasonry cares not.

Carl H. Claudy, Introduction to Freemasonry, vol. 2 (Washington: The Temple, 1984), page 110 (emphases added).

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But certainly if a genuine Christian joined a religious fraternity, shouldn't he want it to care about which God truly is the Supreme Being? And after learning that it doesn't care, shouldn't a real Christian resign and renounce such an organization? If they don't, what does that tell you about the sincerity of their faith?

Claudy says elsewhere:

Masonry does not ask, "Do you believe in Jesus Christ?" or "Do you believe in Buddha?" Masonry does not specify any God of any creed; she requires merely that you believe in some Deity, give him what name you will.

Carl H. Claudy, A Master's Wages, (Kessinger Publishing, 2003), pages 37 (emphasis added).

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He goes on to say:

Hence, a belief in God is essential to a Mason, but....and this statement is made without any intention of irreverence.....any [ol'] god will do, so [long as] He is your God.

Carl H. Claudy, A Master's Wages, (Kessinger Publishing, 2003), pages 38 (emphasis added, but let the paranoid note, the ellipses are Claudy's)

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So as you can see, Freemasonry teaches that all people of all the various faiths in the world are really praying to the One True God; the universal Father of mankind, regardless of the name they choose to call him.

As a Christian, if your God is really so important to you, since He is the One and only True Living God, then wouldn't you want your fraternity to specify to its adherents to follow and worship the God of your creed? How then can any Christian remain in a fraternity that says instead that, any ol' God will do?

O.F.F. said:

If a Mason, who claims to be a real Christian, 'read the Bible correctly' there is no way they would remain in the Lodge.

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.... and you, of course, assume that responsibility.

Genuine Christians will NOT tolerate such a compromise.

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... what is your definition of a 'genuine' Christian? There are 'classes' of Christianity?

(I guess our resident lurking 'reporter' has his finger resting over the trigger in anticipation).

wayseer said:

. . .what is your definition of a 'genuine' Christian?

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Given the context of my post, those that do not compromise the truth of Scripture by allowing anyone to tell them that all men pray and worship the same deity regardless of what religion they come from or what name they choose to call Him.

O.F.F. said:

Given the context of my post, those that do not compromise the truth of Scripture by allowing anyone to tell them that all men pray and worship the same deity regardless of what religion they come from or what name they choose to call Him.

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... and I guess that what you mean by the truth of scripture is your version of that truth.

It never ceases to amaze me how many claim that it is their interpretation of scripture which is the right one.