Can a Calendar Be Used Prior to the Time of Its Inception?

[Humble Penny]

Seeing that there has been much lively discussion more recently on getting the timing of Yeshua's birth right and making sure it is backed by the Word of God which would include knowing exactly which calendar was being used by the Jews during the time of Yeshua. We will arrive at the answer by pondering the question in the title of this post.

Can a Calendar Be Used Prior to the Time of Its Inception?
The answer to this question would be no. That is because our Gregorian calendar was created in 1582 AD and therefore never existed prior to this time, which means it cannot be used to reckon dates in history as no one used it.

What calendar were the Jews using during the Life of Yeshua?
Hillel II wouldn't create the modern Jewish calendar until sometime in 320-385 AD therefore we know the Jews weren't using this calendar either in the 1st Century AD. This leaves us with the follwing options:

• Julian Calendar
• Babylonian Calendar
• Greek Calendar
• Egyptian Calendar
• Etc.

To answer this question more precisely we must trace time all the way back to Adam, and at this point we see that none of the nations existed along with the calendars which were created by them: therefore this means Adam only had one calendar he was following since God created the world and him.

So what calendar did God create and when did He create it?

 

[Red Gold]

So what calendar did God create and when did He create it?

Are you sure that God created any calendar?

 

[Humble Penny]

Are you sure that God created any calendar?

Absolutely sure, for the creation week shows days being counted; and the story of Noah shows this same calendar created by God was keeping track of the days and years during his life and the duration of the Flood; and this same calendar helps us keep track of the years in the genealogical records of Genesis 5 & 11. And God wouldn't tell Moses and the Israelites to observe His Holy Days unless He had a calendar which kept track of them.

 

[Torah Keeper]

I think there was originally a 360 day calendar. The flood account has 5 moons in a row all with 30 days. This is impossible today. Something must have caused the calendar to go out of sync, so now we have 365.2422 days in a solar year and 354.36 odd days in a lunar year.

I suspect that the flood caused the change, but other events could have changed it as well. It is possible the year has been lengthening, or the days shortening, as prophesied, the days will shorten.

The metonic cycle is a 19 year cycle that adds a leap moon when needed to keep the seasonal Moedim in their proper place.

 

[Humble Penny]

I think there was originally a 360 day calendar. The flood account has 5 moons in a row all with 30 days. This is impossible today. Something must have caused the calendar to go out of sync, so now we have 365.2422 days in a solar year and 354.36 odd days in a lunar year.

I suspect that the flood caused the change, but other events could have changed it as well. It is possible the year has been lengthening, or the days shortening, as prophesied, the days will shorten.

The metonic cycle is a 19 year cycle that adds a leap moon when needed to keep the seasonal Moedim in their proper place.

So are you saying God created a calendar which any of His creations could just knock out of place? That wouldn't be keeping with God's character which never changes.

While man has proven to be as changing and unstable as the Moon: God has proven to be as unerring as the North Star and as steady and unchanging as the Sun.

 

[Humble Penny]

It is possible the year has been lengthening, or the days shortening, as prophesied, the days will shorten.

This reference you make is not accurate. For Yeshua was referring to the length of the Great Tribulation: this means that if the Great Tribulation were longer than 3.5 Years then no flesh would be saved (i.e. left alive), but for the sake of the elect the length has been shortened to it's appropriate length.

 

[Humble Penny]

I think there was originally a 360 day calendar.

This is correct becuase in the Septuagint Noah's Flood lasts exactly 360 Days as it begins on the 27th Day of the 2nd Month in the 600th Year of Noah, and ends on the 27th Day of the 2nd Month in the 601st Year of Noah.

The only way for this to be possible is if the 4 Seasonal Days of the Sun are added to the former 360 Days it completed in it's 360° Degree circuit for a total of 364 Solar Days at the end of the year. This is needed becuase while the Sun will start and finish at the same point in the heavens from year to year, we need to have that reflected on paper on our calendar.

If you look at Daniel 9:24-27 we see:

1 Week = 7 Years
7 Years ÷ 2 = 3.5 Years
3.5 Years x 12 Months = 42 Months
42 Months x 30 Days = 1,260 Days
1,260 Days ÷ 3.5 Years = 360 Days

These calculations all point to the aforementioned solar calendar I just described. And not only this but, how could Yah properly tell Moses and the Israelites to observe His holy days from year to year unless He had first created a calendar which would faithfully keep track of them?

 

[Humble Penny]

If one observes this simple calculation you have to ask yourselves the question which follows it:

52 Weeks x 7 Days = 364 Days

Among all of the calendars in existence which one shows a solar year of precisely 364 Solar Days?

 

[Humble Penny]

More food for thought:

• Prior to Day 4 there was no calendar year.
• Prior to Day 1 there was no time.
• Prior to the creation of the world (i.e. the heavens, the earth, and the seas) there was only eternity and the endless Light of God.

No beginning = No Time
No luminaries = No Calendar

 

[Torah Keeper]

This is correct becuase in the Septuagint Noah's Flood lasts exactly 360 Days as it begins on the 27th Day of the 2nd Month in the 600th Year of Noah, and ends on the 27th Day of the 2nd Month in the 601st Year of Noah.

The only way for this to be possible is if the 4 Seasonal Days of the Sun are added to the former 360 Days it completed in it's 360° Degree circuit for a total of 364 Solar Days at the end of the year. This is needed becuase while the Sun will start and finish at the same point in the heavens from year to year, we need to have that reflected on paper on our calendar.

If you look at Daniel 9:24-27 we see:

1 Week = 7 Years
7 Years ÷ 2 = 3.5 Years
3.5 Years x 12 Months = 42 Months
42 Months x 30 Days = 1,260 Days
1,260 Days ÷ 3.5 Years = 360 Days

These calculations all point to the aforementioned solar calendar I just described. And not only this but, how could Yah properly tell Moses and the Israelites to observe His holy days from year to year unless He had first created a calendar which would faithfully keep track of them?

If there are 5 moons of 30 days each, that is 150 days. That is what is recorded in Genesis. A 364 day calendar would not be 150 days in 5 months. It would be 151 or 152 days. You will never get 150 days in 5 months using your 364 day calendar.

 

[Humble Penny]

If there are 5 moons of 30 days each, that is 150 days. That is what is recorded in Genesis. A 364 day calendar would not be 150 days in 5 months. It would be 151 or 152 days. You will never get 150 days in 5 months using your 364 day calendar.

See that's where you have the wrong idea brother, the seasonal days aren't counted as normal days throughout the year. They are reckoned at the end of the year.

The numbers alone should tell you that:

12 Months x 30 Days = 360 Days
360 Days ÷ 4 Seasons = 90 Days
52 Weeks ÷ 4 Seasons = 13 Weeks
13 Weeks x 7 Days = 91 Days

Therefore from these simple calculations we see that the 4 Seasonal Days would be placed a the head of the 4 Seasons to keep all of them separate from one another. The result is that you finish the year at the exact place you started it, in the Bible's case that would be Day 4/Wednesday.

 

[Filippus]

If there are 5 moons of 30 days each, that is 150 days. That is what is recorded in Genesis. A 364 day calendar would not be 150 days in 5 months. It would be 151 or 152 days. You will never get 150 days in 5 months using your 364 day calendar.

Agree, I count 153 days.

 

[Filippus]

See that's where you have the wrong idea brother, the seasonal days aren't counted as normal days throughout the year. They are reckoned at the end of the year.

The numbers alone should tell you that:

12 Months x 30 Days = 360 Days
360 Days ÷ 4 Seasons = 90 Days
52 Weeks ÷ 4 Seasons = 13 Weeks
13 Weeks x 7 Days = 91 Days

Therefore from these simple calculations we see that the 4 Seasonal Days would be placed a the head of the 4 Seasons to keep all of them separate from one another. The result is that you finish the year at the exact place you started it, in the Bible's case that would be Day 4/Wednesday.

Disagree, they would have experienced those days. Not 150 days but 153 days.

Therfore claiming they didn't count the intercalery days, isn't true.

You are basically saying Feb 2024 only has 28 days, but we will experience 29.

If we ask how many days are there in that month the answer is 29 days.

The Enoch calendar fails the test for Gen 7-8.

You will have to come up with a solution that fits scripture, not a reinterpretation of what scripture meant.

Shalom

 

[Humble Penny]

Disagree, they would have experienced those days. Not 150 days but 153 days.

Therfore claiming they didn't count the intercalery days, isn't true.

You are basically saying Feb 2024 only has 28 days, but we will experience 29.

If we ask how many days are there in that month the answer is 29 days.

The Enoch calendar fails the test for Gen 7-8.

You will have to come up with a solution that fits scripture, not a reinterpretation of what scripture meant.

Shalom

Actually my explanation in post #11 is in keeping with the natural order of things. If you look at the course of the Sun it completes 1° Degree per 1 Day in its circular orbit around the earth: a circle and square are made up of 360° Degrees because of the path of the Sun around them:

Circle = Heaven
Square = Earth

When you divide both the circle and square into four quadrants you get the following numbers:

360° Degrees ÷ 4 Quarters = 90° Degrees
360° Degrees ÷ 12 Months = 30° Degrees

Seeing that this is the case the 4 Seasonal Days aren't reckoned as normal days as they represent the four times in which the Sun alters its postion in the sky. And because of these four seasonal events of the Sun the 4 Seasonal/Intercalary Days are found at the head of each season which are the 1st, 4th, 7th, and 10th Months respectively. But becuase many fail to recognize this it seems to them that they are placed at the end of the 3rd, 6th, 9th, and 12th Months and therefore end up counting them as normal days during the year instead of reckoning them at the end of the year.

 

[Humble Penny]

Disagree, they would have experienced those days. Not 150 days but 153 days.

Therfore claiming they didn't count the intercalery days, isn't true.

You are basically saying Feb 2024 only has 28 days, but we will experience 29.

If we ask how many days are there in that month the answer is 29 days.

The Enoch calendar fails the test for Gen 7-8.

You will have to come up with a solution that fits scripture, not a reinterpretation of what scripture meant.

Shalom

I should also add that because the Gregorian calendar came into existence in the year 1582 AD, it is not the calendar used by the ancient Hebrews or God. Therefore attempting to force it's calculations on YHWH's Calendar system is pointless as God's system doesn't have leap days, years, etc.

God's Calendar is made by Him and doesn't change like the Sun.

Man's calendars are made by us and we change like the Moon.

 

[Humble Penny]

Actually my explanation in post #11 is in keeping with the natural order of things. If you look at the course of the Sun it completes 1° Degree per 1 Day in its circular orbit around the earth: a circle and square are made up of 360° Degrees because of the path of the Sun around them:

Circle = Heaven
Square = Earth

When you divide both the circle and square into four quadrants you get the following numbers:

360° Degrees ÷ 4 Quarters = 90° Degrees
360° Degrees ÷ 12 Months = 30° Degrees

Seeing that this is the case the 4 Seasonal Days aren't reckoned as normal days as they represent the four times in which the Sun alters its postion in the sky. And because of these four seasonal events of the Sun the 4 Seasonal/Intercalary Days are found at the head of each season which are the 1st, 4th, 7th, and 10th Months respectively. But becuase many fail to recognize this it seems to them that they are placed at the end of the 3rd, 6th, 9th, and 12th Months and therefore end up counting them as normal days during the year instead of reckoning them at the end of the year.

@Filippus If you ponder what I have quoted above from post #14 carefully then you will understand the following:

0° Degrees = 1st Intercalary Day (Spring/Vernal Equinox)
1° Degree = 1st Day of 1st Month
90° Degrees = 2nd Intercalary Day (Summer Solstice)
91° Degrees = 1st Day of 4th Month
180° Degrees = 3rd Intercalary Day (Fall/Autumnal Equinox)
181° Degrees = 1st Day of 7th Month
270° Degrees = 4th Intercalary Day (Winter Solstice)
271° Degrees = 1st Day of 10th Month
360° Degrees = 1st Intercalary Day (Spring/Vernal Equinox)

As you can see because you can't have 364° Degrees in a circle or square, you cannot count the 4 Seasonal/Intercalary Days as normal days during the year. Therefore the aforementioned days must be reckoned at the end of the year.

Shalom

 

[Filippus]

I should also add that because the Gregorian calendar came into existence in the year 1582 AD, it is not the calendar used by the ancient Hebrews or God. Therefore attempting to force it's calculations on YHWH's Calendar system is pointless as God's system doesn't have leap days, years, etc.

God's Calendar is made by Him and doesn't change like the Sun.

Man's calendars are made by us and we change like the Moon.

I agree looking at Enoch's calendar it is clearly divinely inspired. Claiming it was used in Gen 7-8 is yet to be proven.

Believe me I tried, but wanting doesn't mean it was.

Infact, the evidence suggests the opposite, but you have to remove your emotions from the interpretation.

Shalom

 

[Humble Penny]

If you ponder the question of this thread and what I shared in posts #14 & #16 you'll see I have not been approaching it from an emotional perspective. Actually seeing that no other worldy calendars would exist at the time of Adam's creation that means the calendar of YHWH works: the challenge is to figure out and understand how. The aforementioned posts have shown how it works.

 

[Filippus]

@Filippus If you ponder what I have quoted above from post #14 carefully then you will understand the following:

0° Degrees = 1st Intercalary Day (Spring/Vernal Equinox)
1° Degree = 1st Day of 1st Month
90° Degrees = 2nd Intercalary Day (Summer Solstice)
91° Degrees = 1st Day of 4th Month
180° Degrees = 3rd Intercalary Day (Fall/Autumnal Equinox)
181° Degrees = 1st Day of 7th Month
270° Degrees = 4th Intercalary Day (Winter Solstice)
271° Degrees = 1st Day of 10th Month
360° Degrees = 1st Intercalary Day (Spring/Vernal Equinox)

As you can see because you can't have 364° Degrees in a circle or square, you cannot count the 4 Seasonal/Intercalary Days as normal days during the year. Therefore the aforementioned days must be reckoned at the end of the year.

Shalom

It is well documented that the base of sixty was used.

That still doesn't prove Enoch was used.

I understand completely why the intercalery days are normally left out.

However here we have two dates with 150 days between.

Now the question is did the eight experience 150 evenings and mornings, or 153 evenings and mornings but failing to mention the Intercalary days?

I believe it was an eye witness account and simply specifying the days(150 days) in the ark at that point.

Therfore the responsibility is on you to now prove the opposite, and simply dismissing it as Intercalary days which wasn't counted, is not convincing.

Shalom

 

[Humble Penny]

It is well documented that the base of sixty was used.

That still doesn't prove Enoch was used.

I understand completely why the intercalery days are normally left out.

However here we have two dates with 150 days between.

Now the question is did the eight experience 150 evenings and mornings, or 153 evenings and mornings but failing to mention the Intercalary days?

I believe it was an eye witness account and simply specifying the days(150 days) in the ark at that point.

Therfore the responsibility is on you to now prove the opposite, and simply dismissing it as Intercalary days which wasn't counted, is not convincing.

Shalom

I'm not sure what else to conclude about you from your recent responses other than that you're confused about the way circles work. Or maybe you just need more time to accept the truth that a lunar calendar wasn't used but a 360 Day Solar Calendar with 4 Intercalary Days. The clear answer to the question of this thread's title would tell any honest person that whatever calendar they thought God used and created is not the one.