Calvinists, why are you Calvinist?

[Goodbook]

I encourage you to read the bible praying in the holy spirit.
Im not going to do that for you as you have free will to yield to Him.

 

[Goodbook]

No, your insults have become tiring, and your behaviour on this forum as well. If you are a christian, you have a testimony. Mine is on the testimony forum. We are overcome by the blood of the lamb and the word of our testimony.

 

[Goodbook]

God will ask our testimony when we face him, and it wont be 'im saved because im one of the elect'

 

[Goodbook]

The parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector seems relevant here. And yes that is scripture which you can look up and read in your own bible.

 

[Albion]

God will ask our testimony when we face him, and it wont be 'im saved because im one of the elect'

No, that's closer to what HE will say (if I happen to be one of the Elect, that is).

That'd be good, wouldn't it?

 

[Goodbook]

Shalom.

 

[twin1954]

It doesnt seem like the calvinists on here have a real testimony. Its just something they learned through reading another persons opionion of scripture and they fit that scripture into a little tulip like box. Sorry. Thats what im seeing.

Calvin's name does not save anyone, Jesus does.

I use the name Calvinist for convenience not because I am a follower of John Calvin. Though I have read Calvin's works there is much in them I do not agree with. I hold to what are known as the Doctrines of Grace which are the five points known as TULIP. Calvin didn't come up with them they were developed by the Synod of Dort long after Calvin was dead in answer to the Remonstrants.

Your accusations are groundless to say the least. If you are going to try and argue against these truths it would be more honest of you to actually know and understand what they are instead of just throwing out pointless and groundless accusations that I am sure you are getting from another source.

Now if you want I will answer any passage of Scriptures that you want. I think for myself and all that I say comes from my own study of the Scriptures.

 

[twin1954]

I encourage you to read the bible praying in the holy spirit.
Im not going to do that for you as you have free will to yield to Him.

I have read the Bible through many times and continue to do so. I always seek the light of the Spirit when I approach the Scriptures. So once again you have proffered a groundless accusation.

I am more than willing to help you understand what we believe and why just let me know. I am not going to try to make you a Calvinist but I do desire with all my heart to help you understand why I am.

 

[twin1954]

No, that's closer to what HE will say (if I happen to be one of the Elect, that is).

That'd be good, wouldn't it?

Election isn't salvation it is unto salvation:
(2Th 2:13) But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

(2Th 2:14) Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The Lord Jesus Christ is salvation and by faith in Him we become untied to Him.

Election is God's wondrous unfathomable love for sinners in action. He chose us in Christ and calls us by His Gospel giving us life and faith in Christ so that we are saved. The preaching of the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation to them that believe. Election only assures that those who are called believe.

 

[Hammster]

God will ask our testimony when we face him, and it wont be 'im saved because im one of the elect'

Where do you find that in scripture?

 

[Hammster]

The parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector seems relevant here. And yes that is scripture which you can look up and read in your own bible.

Calvinists are the publicans. We don't thank God for all the great things we do like believing.

 

[JM]

It doesnt seem like the calvinists on here have a real testimony. Its just something they learned through reading another persons opionion of scripture and they fit that scripture into a little tulip like box. Sorry. Thats what im seeing.

Calvin's name does not save anyone, Jesus does.

The only one making this discussion about Calvin is you. No one here is trusting in Calvin but Jesus Christ.

You shouldn't rely on Jacob Arminius. Arminius can't save you, neither can your works.

 

[JM]

Shalom.

Peace, peace and you mean no peace.

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

 

[twin1954]

Arminianism is what one poster on here called shake and bake salvation: Jesus saved me and I helped.

 

[kangaroodort]

Arminian theology makes the love of God to be a useless and powerless emotion. It speaks of God's love but destroys it by taking all the power of God which supports it and subjects it to the whims of man. The love of God then has no power to accomplish its desire for man thwarts it by his unbelief.

Arminian theology makes the accomplished atonement of Christ to be a pointless exercise and the precious blood of Christ to be spent as though it has no power to save unless man gives it permission to put away sin.

Arminian theology makes God subject to the will of man and actually puts man on the throne of God and God to be helpless to save apart from man giving Him permission to save him.

Arminian theology makes salvation to be a work of man to save himself rather than a work of God in and for His people.

These are not abstract strawman allegations but simple and truthful conclusions that are apparent and undebatable.

This doesn't follow at all. Are you saying that the essence and value of God's love is based on whether or not it received by His creatures? That seems extremely "man centered" to me. If anything, the fact that God loves even those who will ultimately reject Him only magnifies the greatness of His love. The Calvinist view has man loving God only because God irresistibly causes them to love Him. Not sure how the God of all truth would be satisfied with such a farce.

And as far as the nonsense about Arminianism meaning that man saves himself or is a self-savior that is obviously false since salvation is a free and undersevered gift from God. To say that in trusting Christ for salvation we are self saviors is oxy-moronic. Trusting Christ to save us is admitting that we are powerless to save ourselves. If we could save ourselves, we wouldn't need to trust in Christ to save us, now would we?

If we receive a free and undeserved gift from the hand of God (even with full power to reject that gift as well) we are in no way earning the gift. Nor did we buy the gift. Nor did we give the gift to ourselves. Nor did we "contribute" to the gift. All such descriptions are plainly absurd. And yet that is what is at the heart of this Calvinist argument: absurdity.

Calvinists want us to believe that if we receive a gift freely, then we must have earned it. They want us to believe that if we receive a gift freely, we must have bought the gift. They want us to believe that if we receive a gift freely, that means we contributed to the gift. They want us to believe that if we receive a gift freely, we gave it to ourselves (which flies in the face of the basic distinction between giver and receiver). They want us to believe that a gift cannot truly be a gift unless it is given in such a way that it cannot possibly be rejected (i.e. given irresistibly). They want us to believe that grace can only be grace if it is given in such a way that it cannot be rejected (i.e. irresistibly). They want us to believe that love can only be love if it is fully affirmed and accepted by the object of that love. What?????

All such things are obviously false and have no parallel to real life. They exist and are persuasive only in the mind of the Calvinist who must constantly redefine basic universal concepts and engage in major equivocation for any such arguments to hold any water at all. Don't fall for it.

 

[kangaroodort]

Arminianism is what one poster on here called shake and bake salvation: Jesus saved me and I helped.

As I said to another poster:

And as far as the nonsense about Arminianism meaning that man saves himself or is a self-savior that is obviously false since salvation is a free and undersevered gift from God. To say that in trusting Christ for salvation we are self saviors is oxy-moronic. Trusting Christ to save us is admitting that we are powerless to save ourselves. If we could save ourselves, we wouldn't need to trust in Christ to save us, now would we?

If we receive a free and undeserved gift from the hand of God (even with full power to reject that gift as well) we are in no way earning the gift. Nor did we buy the gift. Nor did we give the gift to ourselves. Nor did we "contribute" to the gift. All such descriptions are plainly absurd. And yet that is what is at the heart of this Calvinist argument: absurdity.

Calvinists want us to believe that if we receive a gift freely, then we must have earned it. They want us to believe that if we receive a gift freely, we must have bought the gift. They want us to believe that if we receive a gift freely, that means we contributed to the gift. They want us to believe that if we receive a gift freely, we gave it to ourselves (which flies in the face of the basic distinction between giver and receiver). They want us to believe that a gift cannot truly be a gift unless it is given in such a way that it cannot possibly be rejected (i.e. given irresistibly). They want us to believe that grace can only be grace if it is given in such a way that it cannot be rejected (i.e. irresistibly). They want us to believe that love can only be love if it is fully affirmed and accepted by the object of that love. What?????

All such things are obviously false and have no parallel to real life. They exist and are persuasive only in the mind of the Calvinist who must constantly redefine basic universal concepts and engage in major equivocation for any such arguments to hold any water at all. Don't fall for it.

 

[kangaroodort]

[/QUOTE

I grew up Armenian Orthodox. I was saved and attended a non denominational church, were I was baptized. My cousin attended a baptist church once I visited I switched churches, The pastor there is Calvinist. That was in NY, Soon after I moved to Toronto, I am looking to settle into a church here.

For me Romans 9 is very Calvinistic, but more simply, Jonah 2:9 - Salvation is from the Lord.

Even Ezekiel 36: 24-27,32 - For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. 32 I want you to know that I am not doing this for your sake, declares the Sovereign Lord.

Look at all the "I's" - It's all Him, doing everything, with regards to Salvation.

I just came back to Christian Forums this week, I stopped using it in 2010, when I got saved. Great thread, I am enjoying reading all these posts. And enjoying Christian Forums.

With regards to Ezek. 36: https://arminianperspectives.wordpr...el-3626-27-teach-regeneration-precedes-faith/

 

[Hammster]

This doesn't follow at all. Are you saying that the essence and value of God's love is based on whether or not it received by His creatures? That seems extremely "man centered" to me. If anything, the fact that God loves even those who will ultimately reject Him only magnifies the greatness of His love. The Calvinist view has man loving God only because God irresistibly causes them to love Him. Not sure how the God of all truth would be satisfied with such a farce.

And as far as the nonsense about Arminianism meaning that man saves himself or is a self-savior that is obviously false since salvation is a free and undersevered gift from God. To say that in trusting Christ for salvation we are self saviors is oxy-moronic. Trusting Christ to save us is admitting that we are powerless to save ourselves. If we could save ourselves, we wouldn't need to trust in Christ to save us, now would we?

If we receive a free and undeserved gift from the hand of God (even with full power to reject that gift as well) we are in no way earning the gift. Nor did we buy the gift. Nor did we give the gift to ourselves. Nor did we "contribute" to the gift. All such descriptions are plainly absurd. And yet that is what is at the heart of this Calvinist argument: absurdity.

Calvinists want us to believe that if we receive a gift freely, then we must have earned it. They want us to believe that if we receive a gift freely, we must have bought the gift. They want us to believe that if we receive a gift freely, that means we contributed to the gift. They want us to believe that if we receive a gift freely, we gave it to ourselves (which flies in the face of the basic distinction between giver and receiver). They want us to believe that a gift cannot truly be a gift unless it is given in such a way that it cannot possibly be rejected (i.e. given irresistibly). They want us to believe that grace can only be grace if it is given in such a way that it cannot be rejected (i.e. irresistibly). They want us to believe that love can only be love if it is fully affirmed and accepted by the object of that love. What?????

All such things are obviously false and have no parallel to real life. They exist and are persuasive only in the mind of the Calvinist who must constantly redefine basic universal concepts and engage in major equivocation for any such arguments to hold any water at all. Don't fall for it.

Your straw man of what you think Calvinists want you to believe is certainly false.