Calvinists, why are you Calvinist?

[Leevo]

Just curious. Have you investigated Arminian/Molinist theology and found too much fault with it? Is it just what you grew up in so you just accept it?

I was never disposed to either side over the other as we did not attend church growing up but upon my coming to faith I had to find my side of the argument and settled in the Arminian camp, was just curious as to why you all are in the camp your in...

 

[twin1954]

Just curious. Have you investigated Arminian/Molinist theology and found too much fault with it? Is it just what you grew up in so you just accept it?

I was never disposed to either side over the other as we did not attend church growing up but upon my coming to faith I had to find my side of the argument and settled in the Arminian camp, was just curious as to why you all are in the camp your in...

I am a Calvinist because it agrees with the teaching of the Scriptures as a whole, puts God on the throne alone, puts man in the dust at His feet begging mercy and makes the love of God to be real and effectual.
Arminian theology does exactly the opposite. It takes passages of Scripture as though they stand alone, it puts man on the throne of God and it destroys the love of God and makes it a useless emotion.

 

[JM]

Just curious. Have you investigated Arminian/Molinist theology and found too much fault with it? Is it just what you grew up in so you just accept it?

Great question leevo! I believe my story is probably a little different than most professed Calvinists. I wasn't raised in a religious family, my folks are not believers. My grams attended a Roman Catholic church most of her life, but religion was never talked about. (I was able to convince my grams to leave Romanism and attend a Protestant church instead and that's where she is now.) After High School I decided to read the Bible so I could argue more effectively with Christians but, by the Grace of God, I believed. In a way I was dragged into the Kingdom kicking and screaming...not really, but I wasn't looking for anything when I came to know Jesus Christ. By the time I got to Romans I was a convinced Calvinist. Of course, I didn't know what a Calvinist was, but soon after I came to faith I started attending an Anglican church (where my grams now attends). During a Bible study someone called me a Calvinist. I denied it and tried not to confess what I first found in scripture but eventually I just accepted the dreaded term; CALVINIST.

I avoiding reading anything from Calvinists or Reformed writers and just read the scriptures but eventually I did pick up books by Reformed authors. After reading guys like Calvin, Gill, Pink and Sproul I was better equipped to articulate the Christian faith.

I looked into Arminianism and Molinist views a few years after I came to faith in Christ and found Arminianism to be man centered (humanistic/anthropologic) and Molinist is a philosophy system rather than a biblical one. I rejected both as unscriptural.

I was never disposed to either side over the other as we did not attend church growing up but upon my coming to faith I had to find my side of the argument and settled in the Arminian camp, was just curious as to why you all are in the camp your in...

It has been my experience that Arminianism is the standard American Baptist theology. It's unoffensive to man because it affirms their human ability to aid in salvation by contributing faith and it is the modern traditional belief held by most Baptists since the raise of Finney.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

 

[98cwitr]

I don't label myself as calvinist, but do have some very calvinist views because after independently reading the whole Bible for myself, coming to understanding attributes of God (that He is the Creator and is Omniscient), that many doctrines of calvinism must be true because they are

a) Supported by Scripture
b) Based on that Scripture, are the only conclusion
c) Encompass Scripture in context
d) Holds Scripture as inerrant
e) Support the view of God that avoids idolatry (that is, choosing bits and pieces of the God of the Bible, but only the parts you like...that's idolatry)

 

[twin1954]

Arminian theology makes the love of God to be a useless and powerless emotion. It speaks of God's love but destroys it by taking all the power of God which supports it and subjects it to the whims of man. The love of God then has no power to accomplish its desire for man thwarts it by his unbelief.

Arminian theology makes the accomplished atonement of Christ to be a pointless exercise and the precious blood of Christ to be spent as though it has no power to save unless man gives it permission to put away sin.

Arminian theology makes God subject to the will of man and actually puts man on the throne of God and God to be helpless to save apart from man giving Him permission to save him.

Arminian theology makes salvation to be a work of man to save himself rather than a work of God in and for His people.

These are not abstract strawman allegations but simple and truthful conclusions that are apparent and undebatable.

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

I grew up Armenian Orthodox. I was saved and attended a non denominational church, were I was baptized. My cousin attended a baptist church once I visited I switched churches, The pastor there is Calvinist. That was in NY, Soon after I moved to Toronto, I am looking to settle into a church here.

For me Romans 9 is very Calvinistic, but more simply, Jonah 2:9 - Salvation is from the Lord.

Even Ezekiel 36: 24-27,32 - For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. 32 I want you to know that I am not doing this for your sake, declares the Sovereign Lord.

Look at all the "I's" - It's all Him, doing everything, with regards to Salvation.

I just came back to Christian Forums this week, I stopped using it in 2010, when I got saved. Great thread, I am enjoying reading all these posts. And enjoying Christian Forums.

 

[Leevo]

Arminian theology makes the love of God to be a useless and powerless emotion. It speaks of God's love but destroys it by taking all the power of God which supports it and subjects it to the whims of man. The love of God then has no power to accomplish its desire for man thwarts it by his unbelief.

Arminian theology makes the accomplished atonement of Christ to be a pointless exercise and the precious blood of Christ to be spent as though it has no power to save unless man gives it permission to put away sin.

Arminian theology makes God subject to the will of man and actually puts man on the throne of God and God to be helpless to save apart from man giving Him permission to save him.

Arminian theology makes salvation to be a work of man to save himself rather than a work of God in and for His people.

These are not abstract strawman allegations but simple and truthful conclusions that are apparent and undebatable.

Spoken like someone who obviously doesn't properly understand Arminian theology.

 

[Leevo]

Thanks for all the responses guys! It's great to see where we all stand! Let's make sure to keep it civil and know that we can still fellowship together even if we disagree on these minor issues!

 

[JM]

Spoken like someone who obviously doesn't properly understand Arminian theology.

I'm willing to read your explanation...

 

[Goodbook]

Well thats funny cos I independently read the Bible too and lots of scripture doesn't support calvinist views. So..I guess it depends if you read the Bible with the calvinist view (which, if you search scripture can support anything when verses are taken out of context) or you just plain read the Bible.

 

[Goodbook]

BTW this isn't the calvinist club the calvinist club is that away - also known as Presbyterians.

 

[High Fidelity]

BTW this isn't the calvinist club the calvinist club is that away - also known as Presbyterians.

Many Baptists are reformed

 

[twin1954]

Spoken like someone who obviously doesn't properly understand Arminian theology.

Oh I understand Arminian theology very well. I spent many years studying it among other religions. I know that what I said is denied by the Arminian but it is still the conclusion of their theology. Simply put it is a man centered theology rather than a God centered theology. I can easily back up every one of those claims.

 

[Leevo]

I'm willing to read your explanation...

Oh I understand Arminian theology very well. I spent many years studying it among other religions. I know that what I said is denied by the Arminian but it is still the conclusion of their theology. Simply put it is a man centered theology rather than a God centered theology. I can easily back up every one of those claims.

I doubt it, considering that they're false. I didn't come here looking for a debate or to be ridiculed, simply to ask a question...

 

[mikedsjr]

Leevo, i think you have to define Arminianism for me to say I have respect for the theology. Depending on the person, it seems one can believe they hold to Arminianism, yet speak like a Pelegian, Semi-Pelegian or Weslyan Arminian, which are distinct from Arminianism. Some say they are Calvinist, but speak in terms which are not. Even claiming to 1,2,3 or 4 point Calvinist forces them into a different definition which isn't Calvinist.

I used to toy with Molinism, but the philosophy is forced to live a outside of the walls of Scripture and live in the dizzy philosophical waters. Listen to someone who truly supports this belief and get ready for optimal, potential and Actualized worlds. In the end it.

I have a more Lutheran position now on the primary subject in question.

 

[JM]

Well thats funny cos I independently read the Bible too and lots of scripture doesn't support calvinist views. So..I guess it depends if you read the Bible with the calvinist....

The Calvinist view runs contrary to fallen human nature whereas the Arminian view is common, supports libertarian freewill, making the creature master of God.

 

[Goodbook]

Yea i dont know why reformed baptists dont just join the presbyterian church since its pretty much the same thing.

 

[Goodbook]

This is what Id like to go on, a church camp.
Especially one in which we have free will to choose to go on this camp...

 

[mikedsjr]

Deleted. Misread.

 

[High Fidelity]

Yea i dont know why reformed baptists dont just join the presbyterian church since its pretty much the same thing.

Not really. There is a major difference in beliefs on Baptism. Baptists believe in credobaptism(believer's baptism) and Presbyterians typically affirm pedobaptism(infant).

If it weren't for that main issue then I'd likely identify as Presbyterian.