Calvinist Robots

[LittleLambofJesus]

I understand Calvinism perfectly. I used to be a Calvinist. And I, for one, am not making a 'juicy slur' when I say that Calvinism amounts to or teaches 'Roboticism' (New word. Look for it in the new revised edition of Webster's. )

2 Corin 6:17 wherefore come-forth out of midst of them! and be being separated! is saying Lord
and an unclean-thing no ye be touching! and I shall be accepting ye [Isaiah 52:11, Ezekiel 20:34,41/Revelation 18:4]

 

[MamaZ]

You did not answer my question.

Ephesians 1:3. " Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4. According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:"

Which world: the 'oikoumene' or the 'kosmos' ?
Kosmos.
It would mean that they are partly 'righteous' and partly 'unrighteous'. Or that they are capable of doing at least some righteous things, and that they are not TOTALLY ruined. Agree?
You are either fully righteous or you are fully not righteous for if you break even one of the laws you break all of them. This is why our righteousness is as filthy rags unto the Lord and we carry not our own righteousness but the righteousness of Christ Jesus.

But I thought you said you do not have the desire to sin.
I do not have the desire to sin. It is the sin that dwells within a man that tempts him. I have the desire to be all that God wants me to be through Him. My desire is for the Lord.

Men are sinful creatures. This is why we are to crucify our flesh. And those who are born again have been crucified with Christ and have become a new creation in Him.. I can truly attest to that being truth. LOL.. Only those who belong to the Lord are seated in the heavenly places for He has bless us with every Spiritual blessing. Our home is not this earth for we are strangers and aliens here.






How does 'doing good' show that one is a sinful person by nature?
One doing good does not negate the sin the also do. because one does good deeds not not make him not a sinner.
Is the flesh born again, or does a new man actually come into existence when someone is, as you say, 'born again'?

Have you not experienced being born again?Our hearts are circumcised with the Spirit of God . He is the one who causes us to walk in His way. He gives us the desire of His heart through His Spirit.

I know where Jesus told Nicodemus that he and his constituents [the Jews] must be born again/born from above in order to see the kingdom of God, and also that they must be born of water and of the Spirit to enter into the kingdom of God. That discourse of Jesus may be found in the 3rd chapter of the book of John. But in all of this whole discourse Jesus never told HOW one can go about getting born again/born from above. So maybe you could give some instruction on how to get born again/born from above?

Just as He said. From the Spirit. For what is born of flesh is flesh and what is born of Spirit is Spirit.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Which world: the 'oikoumene' or the 'kosmos' ?
Kosmos.

http://www.scripture4all.org/

#3625 mentioned 15 times

oikoumenhV <3625> Luke 4:5, Romans 10:18, Reve 3:10, Reve 16:14.
oikoumenh <3625> Matt 24:14, Luke 21:26, Acts 19:27
oikoumenhn <3625> 8 times Luke 2:1, Acts 11:28, 17:6, 31, 24:5, Hebrew 1:6, 2:5, Reve 12:9.

3625. oikoumene oy-kou-men'-ay feminine participle present passive of 3611 (as noun, by implication, of 1093); land, i.e. the (terrene part of the) globe; specially, the Roman empire:--earth, world.
3624. oikos oy'-kos of uncertain affinity; a dwelling (more or less extensive, literal or figurative); by implication, a family (more or less related, literally or figuratively):--home, house(-hold), temple.
3306. meno men'-o a primary verb; to stay (in a given place, state, relation or expectancy):--abide, continue, dwell, endure, be present, remain, stand, tarry (for), X thine own.
3303. men men a primary particle; properly, indicative of affirmation or concession (in fact); usually followed by a contrasted clause with 1161 (this one, the former, etc.):--

 

[LamorakDesGalis]

Can someone please put to rest the notion that predestination turns humans into robots?

Already been done.

But facts and evidence will not change the minds of those who are clouded with an emotional hatred of Calvinists.


LDG

 

[Albion]

I understand Calvinism perfectly. I used to be a Calvinist. And I, for one, am not making a 'juicy slur' when I say that Calvinism amounts to or teaches 'Roboticism' (New word. Look for it in the new revised edition of Webster's. )

Well, all that can be said there is that although you might have counted yourself as being a Calvinist in the past, you nevertheless didn't understand Calvinism. There are reasonable grounds on which to oppose certain of Calvin's teachings, but "roboticism" is not one of them.

The charge is so obviously untrue to anyone who knows the theology that it can only be put off to either 1) misunderstanding or 2) a desire to say something that is groundless merely for the shock value in it. I will consider you to be in the first category, but I still know that some people talk that way for the other reason.

 

[Albion]

God sometimes approves of the acts of an atheist? So where is the reward for the good acts of the atheist?

I think I covered all this in the previous post and don't see any reason now to restate the same thing. If you go back and read again what I wrote I am sure that you will see that most if not all of what you are wondering now was indeed covered there.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Evergreen48 God sometimes approves of the acts of an atheist? So where is the reward for the good acts of the atheist?

YHWH a lot of times used the "heathen" to "spank" His children once in awhile

Jeremiah 25:9 Behold Me! Sending and I take all of families of north declaration of YHWH and N@buwkadne'tstsar king of Babel servant of Me

Reve 17:12 And the ten horns which thou saw ten kings are, who-any a Kingdom not yet received, but authority as kings one hour they are receiving with the beast.

 

[LamorakDesGalis]

Well, all that can be said there is that although you might have counted yourself as being a Calvinist in the past, you nevertheless didn't understand Calvinism. There are reasonable grounds on which to oppose certain of Calvin's teachings, but "roboticism" is not one of them.

The charge is so obviously untrue to anyone who knows the theology that it can only be put off to either 1) misunderstanding or 2) a desire to say something that is groundless merely for the shock value in it. I will consider you to be in the first category, but I still know that some people talk that way for the other reason.

I take it this is not the first time someone is trying to tell you what you believe, Albion.


LDG

 

[chestertonrules]

What motive does carnal man have for doing good?

Doing good for the wrong motive is not a righteous act.

All men have been made alive in Christ. Do you deny this?

 

[chestertonrules]

Probably not. Even though it's completely untrue to say that this is what Calvinism amounts to or teaches, the word is just too juicy a slur for those who don't understand Calvinism (or don't want to bother to understand it) to give up.

It is absolutely true.

If our natures and destinies are predetermined and totally out of our control,then we are robots.

Calvinists deny man's ability to choose God.

Calvinists claim that God withholds his grace from some and grants it to others.

<Staff Edit>

 

[PETE_]

If our natures and destinies are predetermined and totally out of our control,then we are robots.

Are animals robots?

Their nature and destinies are out of their control

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

It is absolutely true.

If our natures and destinies are predetermined and totally out of our control,then we are robots.

Calvinists deny man's ability to choose God.

Calvinists claim that God withholds his grace from some and grants it to others.

Calvinists deny the bible as written, preferring their twisted man made dogma.

So are you comparing them to the Mormon's or JW's

 

[Albion]

It is absolutely true.

If our natures and destinies are predetermined and totally out of our control,then we are robots.

Is that the source of your misunderstanding? Let me try again to explain. A Robot moves exactly as he is programmed to move and has no choice in ghte matter at all. Calvinism certainly DOES NOT say that. What it says is that we cannot choose God without him permitting and making it possible. That is because we are sinners and so are incapable of doing that. But in every other way, we certainly do make decisions and exercise choice. Does that help you?

Calvinists deny man's ability to choose God.

That's right, but it has nothing to to with being a robot. LOL

Calvinists claim that God withholds his grace from some and grants it to others.

That's also right and also does not make us robots.

Calvinists deny the bible as written, preferring their twisted man made dogma.

We've already proven that Predestination and Election are taught in the Scriptures, so that comment doesn't mean anything.

 

[chestertonrules]

Is that the source of your misunderstanding? Let me try again to explain. A Robot moves exactly as he is programmed to move and has no choice in ghte matter at all. Calvinism certainly DOES NOT say that. What it says is that we cannot choose God without him permitting and making it possible. That is because we are sinners and so are incapable of doing that. But in every other way, we certainly do make decisions and exercise choice. Does that help you?

Give it up. You aren't even fooling yourself!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Give it up. You aren't even fooling yourself!

Why not refute the poster instead of personally attacking him

 

[chestertonrules]

Why not refute the poster instead of personally attacking him

It's just one evasion after the other.

It's as if being able to choose a brand of toothpaste while on our predetermined road to hell is relevant.

He has no relevant point to refute.

 

[Albion]

Give it up. You aren't even fooling yourself!

I'm glad the explanation cleared up your misunderstanding about Calvinist teachings. If there are other aspects of it, please do not hestitate to ask, although we need on this thread to stay to that one point about whether being unable to choose God without his permitting it makes us beings without any ability to make any other choices in life.

IOW, the robot idea is a non-sequitur and inapplicable to the issue of faith in Christ since robots make no choices whereas people make all their choices except for this one.

 

[Evergreen48]

Are animals robots?

Their nature and destinies are out of their control

YES! Animals are a perfect example of the the kind of robots that Calvinism makes out of humans.

 

[Tzaousios]

IOW, the robot idea is a non-sequitur and inapplicable to the issue of faith in Christ since robots make no choices whereas people make all their choices except for this one.

No, people are not able to make any positive spiritual choices, not just the one that pertains to salvation. Total Depravity and the inheritance of the nature and guilt of Adam ensure this.

 

[PETE_]

YES! Animals are a perfect example of the the kind of robots that Calvinism makes out of humans.

I guess the problem is that your definition of robot is not the same as most. I can train my dogs some but I sure cannot make them do squat.