Calvinist Robots

[chestertonrules]

What you might consider is that the resistance in mankind is robotic to the extreme.

And that Gods children, though with these same, does also have an entirely different position...so BOTH facts can exist simultaneously and be completely TRUE in conjunction with each other.

For example, the same Word that lifted Paul totally irritated the DEVIL that God put upon Paul. The same Word that Peter spoke IN TRUTH...was resisted IN HIM by Satan who spoke THROUGH Peter.

Do you understand this yet? I've been writing about it for a long time here. It's so simple, but a BLINDING POWER comes over peoples minds when this simplicity is stated because to take this information PERSONALLY also arouses the RESISTANCE in mankind to NOT be able to see this or understand it...

enjoy!

squint

I understand what you believe, I just find it to be unbiblical and illogical, so I don't agree with you.

 

[SummaScriptura]

If our eternal destiny is already chosen by God before we are born, then we are robots. We can only do what we are programmed to do. This is Calvinism.

What's to disagree with?

Your disagreeing with the notion was preordained.

 

[chestertonrules]

Your disagreeing with the notion was preordained.

If that is true, then it confirms my status as a robot!

Bummer.


Luckily, it is not true!

 

[squint]

I understand what you believe, I just find it to be unbiblical and illogical, so I don't agree with you.

It is polite to provide specifics with charges. Otherwise they are aka FALSE charges and HOLLOW assertions apart from factual discourse.

You also know full well that even your group acknowledges the facts of the OTHER PARTIES who are with mankind.

So by all means, just tell me that devils with mankind do not exist and I can quickly direct you to your own sources stating otherwise.

 

[chestertonrules]

It is polite to provide specifics with charges. Otherwise they are aka FALSE charges and HOLLOW assertions apart from factual discourse.

You also know full well that even your group acknowledges the facts of the OTHER PARTIES who are with mankind.

So by all means, just tell me that devils with mankind do not exist and I can quickly direct you to your own sources stating otherwise.

I'll try to be more specific.

I don't believe that all our actions are controlled by spiritual puppet masters.

 

[SummaScriptura]

If that is true, then it confirms my status as a robot!

Bummer.


Luckily, it is not true!

That you would type that a moment ago was preordained.

 

[chestertonrules]

That you would type that a moment ago was preordained.

GOD HERE, "I AM NOT FORCING CHESTERTONRULES TO TYPE THIS MESSAGE."

 

[squint]

I'll try to be more specific.

I don't believe that all our actions are controlled by spiritual puppet masters.

Scriptures show us from whence stems our robotic actions of sin and evil.

The Law arouses and empowers indwelling sin to SIN. There is nothing any of us as Gods children can do to stop indwelling sin from what indwelling sin does.

We sooner or later should recognize that EVIL is not US as Gods children and we STOP being robotic slaves of that EVIL. We 'divide' ourselves from being THAT working. We DENY those thoughts as being 'us' as Gods children.

Do you understand this principle?

 

[SummaScriptura]

GOD HERE, "I AM NOT FORCING CHESTERTONRULES TO TYPE THIS MESSAGE."

Don't get me wrong, I'm not on-board the Genevan dictator's bandwagon, nor the bandwagon of the 4th century dictator's from Hippo, for the same reasons.

 

[Evergreen48]

2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

SOMEONE else in and with them really doesn't like the LIGHT one little bit.

So, ya gotta be askin' yerself about now, WHY do I blame and accuse the blinded rather than the power that BLINDS them...???

And if you can't answer this question in the PROPER direction...it's called a tag, yer it.

enjoy!

squint

The only other god or gods that there is besides the true and the living God are man made fabrications who have no power of their own; only the power that men give them.

yer it!

 

[chestertonrules]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not on-board the Genevan dictator's bandwagon, nor the bandwagon of the 4th century dictator's from Hippo, for the same reasons.

I know. I'm just having fun with your posts.

Augustine has written some things which are often overlooked by his Calvinist supporters.


Have you read this from 427 AD?(He died in 430, I believe, so this is late in his life)

Sorry about all the underscores, I didn't put them there.

Chapter 1 [I.]— The Occasion and Argument of This Work.

With reference to those persons who so preach and defend man's free will, as boldly to deny, and endeavour to do away with, the grace of God which calls us to Him, and delivers us from our evil deserts, and by which we obtain the good deserts which lead to everlasting life: we have already said a good deal in discussion, and committed it to writing, so far as the Lord has vouchsafed to enable us. But since there are some persons who so defend God's grace as to deny man's free will, or who suppose that free will is denied when grace is defended, I have determined to write somewhat on this point to your Love, my brother Valentinus, and the rest of you, who are serving God together under the impulse of a mutual love.

Chapter 2 [II.]— He Proves the Existence of Free Will in Man from the Precepts Addressed to Him by God.

Now He has revealed to us, through His Holy Scriptures, that there is in a man a free choice of will. But how He has revealed this I do not recount in human language, but in divine. There is, to begin with, the fact that God's precepts themselves would be of no use to a man unless he had free choice of will, so that by performing them he might obtain the promised rewards.

Chapter 4.— The Divine Commands Which are Most Suited to the Will Itself Illustrate Its Freedom.

What is the import of the fact that in so many passages God requires all His commandments to be kept and fulfilled? How does He make this requisition, if there is no free will? What means the happy man, of whom the Psalmist says that his will has been the law of the Lord? Does he not clearly enough show that a man by his own will takes his stand in the law of God?

Chapter 31 [XV.]— Free Will Has Its Function in the Heart's Conversion; But Grace Too Has Its.

Lest, however, it should be thought that men themselves in this matter do nothing by free will, it is said in the Psalm, Harden not your hearts; and in Ezekiel himself, Cast away from you all your transgressions, which you have impiously committed against me; and make you a new heart and a new spirit; and keep all my commandments. For why will you die, O house of Israel, says the Lord? for I have no pleasure in the death of him that dies, says the Lord God: and turn ye, and live. Ezekiel 18:31-32 We should remember that it is He who says, Turn ye and live, to whom it is said in prayer, Turn us again, O God. We should remember that He says, Cast away from you all your transgressions, when it is even He who justifies the ungodly. We should remember that He says, Make you a new heart and a new spirit, who also promises, I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit will I put within you. Ezekiel 36:26 How is it, then, that He who says, Make you, also says, I will give you? Why does He command, if He is to give? Why does He give if man is to make, except it be that He gives what He commands when He helps him to obey whom He commands? There is, however, always within us a free will,— but it is not always good; for it is either free from righteousness when it serves sin,— and then it is evil,— or else it is free from sin when it serves righteousness,— and then it is good. But the grace of God is always good; and by it it comes to pass that a man is of a good will, though he was before of an evil one. By it also it comes to pass that the very good will, which has now begun to be, is enlarged, and made so great that it is able to fulfil the divine commandments which it shall wish, when it shall once firmly and perfectly wish. This is the purport of what the Scripture says: If you will, you shall keep the commandments; Sirach 15:15 so that the man who wills but is not able knows that he does not yet fully will, and prays that he may have so great a will that it may suffice for keeping the commandments. And thus, indeed, he receives assistance to perform what he is commanded.

 

[MamaZ]

If our eternal destiny is already chosen by God before we are born, then we are robots. We can only do what we are programmed to do. This is Calvinism.

What's to disagree with?

For one If we were programmed then there would not be divorce. LOL In matters of Gods will for salvation we are predestined. Even after salvation we still get to choose what our favorite color is. We just don't have the means nor the Power to save ourselves no matter how hard we try..
No matter how many works we do for good works do not cancel out any bad works we have done.

 

[chestertonrules]

For one If we were programmed then there would not be divorce. LOL In matters of Gods will for salvation we are predestined. Even after salvation we still get to choose what our favorite color is. We just don't have the means nor the Power to save ourselves no matter how hard we try..
No matter how many works we do for good works do not cancel out any bad works we have done.

Do you believe it is possible for the non elect, programmed for hell, to go to heaven?

If not, then how can you deny that Calvinism believes we are robots?

Who programmed us?

 

[MamaZ]

No. That is one of the reasons why the Calvinistic doctrine is so unlikely. On the one hand its tenants declare that we are robots, while on the other hand those who subscribe to these same tenants deny this to be true. It is a house divided against itself. "A house divided against itself cannot stand."

Predestination is in the scripture. Salvation is not of the will of man. If left up to the will of man no one would be saved for mans will is sinful., When we are predestined to salvation through the grace and mercy of God we do not loose our ability to sin just our desire to sin. We do not loose our ability to like green and not like yellow. So a robot is programmed in all things.. We are just chosen and it has been predetermined.

 

[SummaScriptura]

Predestination is in the scripture. Salvation is not of the will of man. If left up to the will of man no one would be saved for mans will is sinful., When we are predestined to salvation through the grace and mercy of God we do not loose our ability to sin just our desire to sin. We do not loose our ability to like green and not like yellow. So a robot is programmed in all things.. We are just chosen and it has been predetermined.

Calvinism is not merely about predestination for salvation. There is nothing allowed outside the realm of the predestined in Calvin's ideas.

 

[MamaZ]

At what period of time in one's life does a person come to know that he is predestined?

At the time one bears witness within himself and the Spirit of God that He is a child of God. One cannot have this witness in Him and be personal with God if He is not predestined. They may have a form of Godliness but deny the power,,This is where alot of religeous works come into play. Well If I but do this God will be pleased and have mercy on me..

 

[MamaZ]

You deny that Calvinistic dogma turns men into robots because it makes you uncomfortable.

You didn't answer my question, either.

Can a man PROGRAMMED for HELL go to HEAVEN?

Programmed and predetermined are two different words and have two different meanings. So If God has not predestined a man to go to Heaven how will he get there?

 

[MamaZ]

So you have answered your own question!

Calvinists believe that we are robots. We are either sheep robots or goat robots, and there is nothing we can do about it.

A goat is a goat no matter if they feed with the sheep. A circle is a circle even though it might be in the center of a square. We cannot change even a spot on a leopards back, Even if you put dye on it underneath it still has the same color of Spot God created it to have.

 

[squint]

The only other god or gods that there is besides the true and the living God are man made fabrications who have no power of their own; only the power that men give them.

yer it!

We already know where this is going so let's spare ourselves the drill.

If my observation of your position is not true, by all means clarify, but in your understanding Jesus was tempted in the desert NOT by the DEVIL but by His Own Mind.

 

[Rick Otto]

If that is true, then it confirms my status as a robot!

Bummer.

Why?
Nothing has changed except the label.