Calvinism

[BBAS 64]

Don't worry, DOIA. You're not alone. I'm not a Calvinist, either. Point #6 simply goes too far against God's love. Teach your children that God loves them and all their little friends and don't worry about those who disagree.

Good day, Liz

Hope you are well. I do understand in some ways your need to teach such a view to your little ones. But how does one in the end reconcile the plain teaching in the Scripture.

Psa 137:8

O daughter of Babylon, you devastated one, How blessed will be the one who repays you With the recompense with which you have repaid us. Psa 137:9 How blessed will be the one who seizes and dashes your little ones Against the rock.

Peace to u,

Bill

 

[unimportantbuthisnameis]

Dod some SBCer's distinguish between total inability and total depravity?

Yes, I'm personally am one of them, but there are others as well.

 

[Crazy Liz]

Good day, Liz

Hope you are well. I do understand in some ways your need to teach such a view to your little ones. But how does one in the end reconcile the plain teaching in the Scripture.

Psa 137:8

O daughter of Babylon, you devastated one, How blessed will be the one who repays you With the recompense with which you have repaid us. Psa 137:9 How blessed will be the one who seizes and dashes your little ones Against the rock.

Peace to u,

Bill

Psalms are "plain teaching?" I thought they were poetry.

The particular one you chose is very interesting to me because it is a prayer that goes completely contrary to God's command:

[bible]jeremiah 29:7[/bible]

That this psalm became part of the canon of Israel's songs, even when God had commanded them to pray the opposite tells me that God loves and accepts us, even when we just don't "get it," and fail to pray as we should. God still hears us when our prayers are hateful and wrong-headed.

Peace to you and your little ones!

 

[theseed]

unimportantbuthisnameis,

What do you think is the difference between total depravity and total inability?

 

[unimportantbuthisnameis]

unimportantbuthisnameis,

What do you think is the difference between total depravity and total inability?

.
By my personal def. total depravity is the inability of sinful man to enter into the presence of a Holy God based upon man's righteousness.

Total inability (by my understanding) is thought that man first does not seek God, and that secondly man is not a free moral agent that can actually choose to do good apart from divine intervention.

 

[theseed]

.
By my personal def. total depravity is the inability of sinful man to enter into the presence of a Holy God based upon man's righteousness.

Total inability (by my understanding) is thought that man first does not seek God, and that secondly man is not a free moral agent that can actually choose to do good apart from divine intervention.

That is what I thought total depravity means too. You mean some claim to believe in Total Depravity, but no inability?

 

[unimportantbuthisnameis]

That is what I thought total depravity means too. You mean some claim to believe in Total Depravity, but no inability?

Yes, I do, because Genesis 11 shows mankind seeking God, and Romans 2:14 both refute my understanding of the Calvinist teaching of total inability (as both show sinful seeking God).

 

[theseed]

Yes, I do, because Genesis 11 shows mankind seeking God, and Romans 2:14 both refute my understanding of the Calvinist teaching of total inability (as both show sinful seeking God).

Calvinists don't teach that sinners don't seek God. They teach that no man comes to God without the help of the Holy Spirit. To suggest otherwise is called Pelegianism, and it belongs in Unorthodox Theology.

 

[BBAS 64]

Yes, I do, because Genesis 11 shows mankind seeking God, and Romans 2:14 both refute my understanding of the Calvinist teaching of total inability (as both show sinful seeking God).

Good Day, Unimportant

I would say that you have misunderstood The Doctrines of Grace and the nature of the Gospel.

Peace to u,

Bill

 

[unimportantbuthisnameis]

Good Day, Unimportant

I would say that you have misunderstood The Doctrines of Grace and the nature of the Gospel.

Peace to u,

Bill

In what way I have misunderstood anything about Calvinism? You have posted with me several times in other threads you realize that I have a great understanding of the beliefs and concepts of Calvinism.

 

[unimportantbuthisnameis]

Calvinists don't teach that sinners don't seek God.

Actually that's what the Calvinstic system teaches whether it be directly or indirectly.

 

[BBAS 64]

Actually that's what the Calvinstic system teaches whether it be directly or indirectly.

Good Day, Unimportant

Cite source please.

Peace to u,

Bill

 

[BBAS 64]

In what way I have misunderstood anything about Calvinism? You have posted with me several times in other threads you realize that I have a great understanding of the beliefs and concepts of Calvinism.

Good Day, Unimportant

To say that The Doctrines of Grace do not teach that sinners seek God, is not to understand the Doctrines of the Gospel. It is true we have disscussed things before and I have allway found it enjoyable.

With out the drawing of the Father men in and of them selves can not come to God. The Drawing of the Father is his work and power of the Father to forfill his purpse for his plan in accordance with his will. That work and energy is expened by the Father on sinfull people.. so to say that sinners never seek is a misunderstanding of the nature of the gospel as it relates to the purpose and will of the Father.


Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

The Fathers work.

Peace to u,

Bill

 

[unimportantbuthisnameis]

Good Day, Unimportant

Cite source please.

Peace to u,

Bill

I don;t have a written source, but I have heard it said directly from some Calvinist brethren, and implied indirectly from all the teachings that I have studied.

 

[JM]

I don;t have a written source, but I have heard it said directly from some Calvinist brethren, and implied indirectly from all the teachings that I have studied.

How about Paul: Ro 3:11 "There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God."

 

[theseed]

unimportantbuthisnameis,

You have Calvnist bretheren here trying to explain the doctrines of grace. You should know that no denominaiton in this forum believes that sinners seek God without his help--not the Caltholics, not the Methodists, not the Baptists, and not the Presbyterians, vbmenu_register("postmenu_10984384", true);

 

[unimportantbuthisnameis]

unimportantbuthisnameis,

You have Calvnist bretheren here trying to explain the doctrines of grace. You should know that no denominaiton in this forum believes that sinners seek God without his help--not the Caltholics, not the Methodists, not the Baptists, and not the Presbyterians, vbmenu_register("postmenu_10984384", true);

.


I fully understand the doctrines of Calvinism and still disagree with them, what I have noticed is that many Calvinist do not realize the indirect beliefs that their teachings imply. However, the question that you have is raised is does fallen man seek God? I personally believe they do, but are unable to reach God under their own merit. Thus, the only way to enter into the kingdom of God is through faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[theseed]

.


I fully understand the doctrines of Calvinism and still disagree with them, what I have noticed is that many Calvinist do not realize the indirect beliefs that their teachings imply. However, the question that you have is raised is does fallen man seek God? I personally believe they do, but are unable to reach God under their own merit. Thus, the only way to enter into the kingdom of God is through faith in Jesus Christ.

If you believe that a man can seek God without the Holy Spirit, then you believe heresy. You believe in unorthodox doctrine, it is like denying the Trinity, or the ressurection of Jesus.

 

[BBAS 64]

.


I fully understand the doctrines of Calvinism and still disagree with them, what I have noticed is that many Calvinist do not realize the indirect beliefs that their teachings imply. However, the question that you have is raised is does fallen man seek God? I personally believe they do, but are unable to reach God under their own merit. Thus, the only way to enter into the kingdom of God is through faith in Jesus Christ.

Good day, Unimportant

How does your view differ from that of Peleginism[sp]?

Peace to u,

Bill

 

[unimportantbuthisnameis]

Good day, Unimportant

How does your view differ from that of Peleginism[sp]?

Peace to u,

Bill

I don't believe in sinless perfection.