Calvinism Refuted

[&Abel]

I'll just be flat out honest with you here and now

I've read almost nothing written by other christians save what I've read on this forum

these are my own thoughts, like I said before

 

[drstevej]

I'll just be flat out honest with you here and now

I've read almost nothing written by other christians save what I've read on this forum

these are my own thoughts, like I said before

Fair enough.

 

[&Abel]

that does not negate what went before. You did not cause yourself to be born by any action of your own. neither were you born again by any action of your own. You say you were born again after you believed. That implies a cause and effect relationship, where your belief caused God to birth you into Christ. Who is the primary actor in that scenario? You.



He caused you to be born again so that you could receive Him and be justified. Just as birth is the opening act of your physical life, so the new birth is the opening act of your apiritualo life. You didn't give yourself physical life, and you cannot give yourself spiritual life. No action, no thought, no belief caused your new birth, your faith was caused BY your new birth. God gave you life, and then you believed.



He did it all, and then you believed and received. Simple.

being born again is not of man or anything naturalistic

its a relational birth

 

[&Abel]

we didn't choose how we came in but we most certainly choose how we go out

 

[nobdysfool]

being born again is not of man or anything naturalistic

its a relational birth

No, it's a REAL birth. Therein lies your problem.

 

[nobdysfool]

we didn't choose how we came in but we most certainly choose how we go out

"I am the master of my fate, the captain of my soul".....

where is that in the bible?

 

[&Abel]

No, it's a REAL birth. Therein lies your problem.

well its not a physical birth so describe your usage of "real"

 

[&Abel]

"I am the master of my fate, the captain of my soul".....

where is that in the bible?

I only have the choice because God has given it to me

His gift which I gladly accept

 

[nobdysfool]

well its not a physical birth so describe your usage of "real"

you won't understand until you realize the spiritual is every bit as real, if not moreso, that the physical.

 

[drstevej]

we didn't choose how we came in but we most certainly choose how we go out

Oh really


James 4:15-16 For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that. 1But now ye rejoice in your boastings: all such rejoicing is evil.

 

[nobdysfool]

I only have the choice because God has given it to me

His gift which I gladly accept

And He caused that willingness to accept.

 

[drstevej]

I only have the choice because God has given it to me

His gift which I gladly accept

So you can refuse the gift of free will?

 

[&Abel]

you won't understand until you realize the spiritual is every bit as real, if not moreso, that the physical.

its real but different

its not as though God mated with my mom(can't think of a more appropriate way of putting that)

its not indentical to a physical birth in that regard so we cannot assume its identical in other ways either

 

[&Abel]

And He caused that willingness to accept.

theres no point in accepting it if I'm not the one doing it

 

[&Abel]

So you can refuse the gift of free will?

obviously not

but I can refuse grace and redemption

 

[drstevej]

obviously not

but I can refuse grace and redemption

So free will is not free? How fair is that?

 

[archierieus]

Show me where it is written that God calls all people everywhere His own..We see Jesus telling some that they are of their father the devil.

The ones of whom Jesus said they are of 'your father the devil' were the spiritual leaders of His chosen people, His elect, refer back to Ex. 19:3 - 8 and to the special calling of the tribe of Levi to minister as priests and oversee His temple.

 

[&Abel]

its fair in that we make the choice

 

[heymikey80]

yes whoever believes has been born again into Gods family as one of His children

Nope, whoever believes was born of God. Not brought "into God's family as his child."

Scripture, not a diversion of it. New Birth before faith. Faith dependent on New Birth.

 

[drstevej]

its fair in that we make the choice

You made no choice in accepting the gift of freewill (or so you said).