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Calvinism Refuted

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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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Originally Posted by Robert Pate The answer to Calvinism and all religions is the Gospel.

So much false doctrine! Christ is not the representative of all humanity, He is the head of His Body, the Church, His Bride. All humanity is not Elect. All humanity is not perfected and taken to Heaven.
:)
 
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student ad x

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eating-popcorn-03.gif
 
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cygnusx1

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Everyone has faith. Some have faith in the goverment. Some have faith in their husbands and wives. It is a God given attribute that everyone is born with.

nonsense , saving faith is not equivalent to simple belief , you will be saying everyone is granted NEW birth next ... because everyone experiences birth.
 
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Robert Pate

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Then what does the Holy Spirit do?


You really need to get off of this forum and do some bible reading.

John 16:13-14, "Howbeit when he the Spirit of truth is come, he will guide you into all truth; for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come."

"He shall glorify me: for he shall recieve of mine, and shall show it unto you." (the gospel)

It is really all about Jesus Christ and his Gospel. We are just sinners saved by grace.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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The Bible says faith comes by hearing the Gospel.
Do ya think Calvinists read the Gospels? :wave:

John 5:39 "Ye are searching the Writings that ye are seeming in them life age-during to be having, and those are the ones-testifying about Me".

Reve 14:11 And the smoke of the tormenting of them into ages of ages is ascending and not they are having Rest day and night
 
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cygnusx1

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According to God's word , the First-Born is highly favoured by the Lord , in fact He declares that all first-born males (both human and animal) are His !
God declared ages past that He had divine right to take the very 'best' that creation could offer mankind. See Exodus 13.

But why ?

consider the Old testament as a matrix of information , mostly coded and revealed only by God's Spirit .

The Old testament is a mystery that has now been revealed by the New testament.

Jesus Christ God's Only Begotten Son is the total focus of both the Old Testament and The New .

hence Jesus Christ it is who is the First-born

For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the first-born among many brethren. Romans 8:29

Now if the first-born are God's by Divine RIGHT , then so we might ask how if at all does this Divine ownership effect us ?

To understand just how it effects us , we need to remember that as the Old testament was written for our instruction so we do well to grasp the whole point and purpose of the first-Born.

the First-born son had the blessing of God , but also the inheritance went directly to Him.

Christ Jesus being God's First-Born is both subject to The Father as well as the inheriter of all the Father has.

But wait , how does that effect us ?

the answer is through our unity with Christ we are co-inheriters with Jesus .
We are also viewed as 'The first-born'

But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering,

and to the assembly of the first-born who are enrolled in heaven, and to a judge who is God of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks more graciously than the blood of Abel. Heb 12:22-24

Now ask yourself the question if I am beloved Of God for Christ's sake then I am also 'The first-Born' and as such God said the first-born is MINE . Exodus 13:2 then God already had ownership of me ....

Now when we read in John's gospel .....

"I have manifested thy name to the men whom thou gavest me out of the world; thine they were, and thou gavest them to me, and they have kept thy word." John 17:6

I am praying for them; I am not praying for the world but for those whom thou hast given me, for they are thine; John 17:9

So a close exmaination and comparison of scripture shows us that God selected us before we were born to be His , we were highly favoured because we were viewed in Eternity as being IN CHRIST The 'First-Born'.

Now go back to Exodus 13 and carefully read , and you will find something so remarkable , all the 'First-born' sons were to be redeemed!!!

yes God declared that they were his , yet instead of sacrificing these 'first-born sons' they were to be redeemed ........ the scriptures tell us that it was a fact that God sacrificed the first-born of Egypt and that the command to redeem all first-born sons came to God's beloved Israel to redeem their own sons , literally the Jews had to buy back the first-born sons (they still do!)

Exod.13

[1]
The LORD said to Moses,


[2] "Consecrate to me all the first-born; whatever is the first to open the womb among the people of Israel, both of man and of beast, is mine."
[3]
And Moses said to the people, "Remember this day, in which you came out from Egypt, out of the house of bondage, for by strength of hand the LORD brought you out from this place; no leavened bread shall be eaten.


[4] This day you are to go forth, in the month of Abib.
[5] And when the LORD brings you into the land of the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Amorites, the Hivites, and the Jeb'usites, which he swore to your fathers to give you, a land flowing with milk and honey, you shall keep this service in this month.
[6] Seven days you shall eat unleavened bread, and on the seventh day there shall be a feast to the LORD.
[7] Unleavened bread shall be eaten for seven days; no leavened bread shall be seen with you, and no leaven shall be seen with you in all your territory.
[8] And you shall tell your son on that day, `It is because of what the LORD did for me when I came out of Egypt.'
[9] And it shall be to you as a sign on your hand and as a memorial between your eyes, that the law of the LORD may be in your mouth; for with a strong hand the LORD has brought you out of Egypt.
[10] You shall therefore keep this ordinance at its appointed time from year to year.
[11]
"And when the LORD brings you into the land of the Canaanites, as he swore to you and your fathers, and shall give it to you,


[12] you shall set apart to the LORD all that first opens the womb. All the firstlings of your cattle that are males shall be the LORD's.
[13] Every firstling of an ass you shall redeem with a lamb, or if you will not redeem it you shall break its neck. Every first-born of man among your sons you shall redeem.
[14] And when in time to come your son asks you, `What does this mean?' you shall say to him, `By strength of hand the LORD brought us out of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
[15] For when Pharaoh stubbornly refused to let us go, the LORD slew all the first-born in the land of Egypt, both the first-born of man and the first-born of cattle. Therefore I sacrifice to the LORD all the males that first open the womb; but all the first-born of my sons I redeem.'
 
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cygnusx1

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Faith common to every person ?

here's some quotes by men on this forum , men who are blind , who have no sense or feel for Christ , who have NO reason within themselves why they should become Christians ;

"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."



~Friedrich Nietzsche
Someones signature .

;


"free will is just a concept dreamed up by christians to try to explain the inaction of God in the areas of evil and suffering."

Researcher
_______________
;


"God: "I am omniscient, and you will make eggs at 8:45 AM."
Me: "Can I make bacon?"
God: "No."
Me: "Toast?"
God: "No."
Me: "Cereal?"
God: "No, for the last time, you are going to make eggs because I know you are going to make eggs before you know that you will know. You can make no other choice."

Sounds very free to me.
Lucretius

;

"Why would God want to obfuscate things purposefully? It seems if the bible were written more clearly and with less allegory, there'd be more Christians around today."
Bargainfluger

;

"Many Christians have not thought of hell as justice, but as punishment. Many Christians today still think of it in this way."

An example:"The God that holds you over the pit of hell, much as one holds a spider, or some loathsome insect over the fire, abhors you, and is dreadfully provoked: his wrath towards you burns like fire; he looks upon you as worthy of nothing else, but to be cast into the fire; …" -- Jonathan Edwards

Consistent with some of the Bible, certainly.
RAE


;


"Or 4. The christian understanding of God is not correct.
I would go for 4. (obviously because I am suggesting it. :) )

The fact is that there is no Hell and God can not and does not burn people in hell. Salvation is for everyone and it's a matter of time or number of lives. It depends on your karma...you can have salvation in this life or it may take many many lives for the soul to realize that "I am not this body". "
Satay

;


"The fundamentalist version of hell is not fair. It is not fair for a good and loving person to burn forever because they chose to love God the wrong way or accidentally chose the wrong belief system in the vast catalogs of beliefs to choose from. Fundamentalists will say that those who haven't accepted Jesus as their savior are going to hell, some Catholics say that if you aren't Catholic you are going to hell, Muslims say that Christians won't go to heaven because they've committed a grave sin in deifying a man. Each will use their Holy Book to back up their belief and consider it a revelation from God. So either way I choose I could be going to hell by making the mistake of loving God the wrong way. So no. Fundamentalist hell is not fair. If it were true then it implies a weakness on God's part to steer people in the right direction.

So I offer a spiritual answer. Hell is an imaginary state created by free will beings who willingly reject God. It is a void without God. God won't interfere with our freedom of choice. Otherwise we would be coerced to love him which is not a true love at all. So the void is for those who reject and hate God and God does not want these individuals to be there. When they are willing to accept light, love and life (which defines God) then they will ascend to him. The Bible hell is metaphorical and it does not state that there is no way out of hell. "

Brian

;

still think faith is a simple choice ?
 
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archierieus

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Jesus now responds, in verse, 5 different from 3. Verse 3 did not use "Water" but as we see water and spirit are used here.(udatoV) and (pneumatoV). (of water and of spirit)


Spirit is not mentioned in v. 3 either. A reasonable match is that v. 5 gives further detail about the message in v. 3. Being born again means to be born of water and the Spirit. I think there is good support for this understanding, but will get to that a bit later.

As for the alternative of 'born of flesh' referring to physical birth, doesn't appear to add up. 1) everywhere else natural birth is spoken of, it is described as 'born of a woman' and the like. 2) nowhere else is natural birth spoken of as born of water.

There is evidence of baptism by immersion signifying a death to the old life and raised up to begin a new life. See Rom. 6. There is also evidence connecting water baptism with baptism by the Holy Spirit, see for example the dove alighting on Jesus at His baptism.

Dave
 
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student ad x

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"We are only at the beginning of an era of mingled unbelief and fanaticism. Now we shall know who are God's elect and who are not; for there are spirits abroad at this hour that would, if it were possible, deceive even the very elect; and those who are not deceived are, nevertheless, sorely put to it. Here is the patience of the saints; let him look to himself who is not rooted and grounded in Christ, for the hurricane is coming. The signs of the times indicate a carnival of delusions; men have ceased to be guided by the word, and claim to be themselves prophets. Now we shall see what we shall see. Blessed is the sheep that knows his Shepherd, and will not listen to the voice of strangers. But here is the way to be kept steadfast- 'The word of God abideth in you.'"

"We shall soon have to handle truth, not with kid gloves, but with gauntlets, – the gauntlets of holy courage and integrity."

C.H. Spurgeon
 
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Hammster

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You really need to get off of this forum and do some bible reading.



John 16:13-14, "Howbeit when he the Spirit of truth is come, he will guide you into all truth; for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come."



"He shall glorify me: for he shall recieve of mine, and shall show it unto you." (the gospel)



It is really all about Jesus Christ and his Gospel. We are just sinners saved by grace.



I know what the Holy Spirit does, I am just not sure you do.
If we all have faith and can all believe because we all have free will, then accepting the gospel is just an academic exercise and the Holy Spirit can just kick back and relax.
 
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archierieus

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If we all have faith and can all believe because we all have free will, then accepting the gospel is just an academic exercise and the Holy Spirit can just kick back and relax.

We can all have faith and we can all believe, but accepting the gospel is hardly an academic exercise. Satan is alive and well out there, doing everything in his power to prevent that from happening.
 
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Hammster

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We can all have faith and we can all believe, but accepting the gospel is hardly an academic exercise. Satan is alive and well out there, doing everything in his power to prevent that from happening.



So to become a Christian you have to out smart Satan. Got it.
 
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archierieus

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So to become a Christian you have to out smart Satan. Got it.

That certainly is not what I said. God is very active to protect and help, and like the Good Shepherd is reaching out to people to help and rescue them from Satan's power. Prayer is extremely important, and putting on the whole armor of God.
 
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Hammster

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That certainly is not what I said. God is very active to protect and help, and like the Good Shepherd is reaching out to people to help and rescue them from Satan's power. Prayer is extremely important, and putting on the whole armor of God.



This is interesting. So Satan is trying to prevent us from believing and God, The Good Shepherd, is reaching out to help them and rescuing them from Satan.

But if we pray and put on the whole armor of God, it will help Him save us.

I am not sure why a non-believer would pray that, or even know what it is, but what do I know.

Oh, yeah....got scripture?
 
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