Calvinism Refuted

[drstevej]

Significant ministries is your criteria for judgment. It is not God's!

Lu 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

Are you then denying that Whitefield and Spurgeon had significant ministries and have you bothered to inquire into their ministries?

BTW, on Whitefield's tombstone are the following words, "Here lies G.W. what sort of man he was, that Great Day will reveal."

 

[the particular baptist]

After reading this entire thread i am embarrassed at what passes for Baptists these days. The modern Baptist has traded the truth of God for decisional synergistic garbage. Good grief.

Come Lord Jesus, come quickly !

 

[Hammster]

After reading this entire thread i am embarrassed at what passes for Baptists these days. The modern Baptist has traded the truth of God for decisional synergistic garbage. Good grief.



Come Lord Jesus, come quickly !

Short, sweet, and to the point. Like it.

 

[nobdysfool]

After reading this entire thread i am embarrassed at what passes for Baptists these days. The modern Baptist has traded the truth of God for decisional synergistic garbage. Good grief.

Come Lord Jesus, come quickly !

Amen, brother!

 

[the particular baptist]

man has no desire to want God and has no ability to create that desire I himself. Thus, from one viewpoint, it is an inability.
Calvinists don't believe that God is keeping people out who want to come. There just isn't any who want to come on their own.

 

[Robert Pate]

What you are implying is that the Gospel and the Holy Spirit are a failure.

More blasphemy against Christ and the Holy Spirit.

I heard that Muslims are coming to Christ by the tens of thousands.

Very few are accepting Calvinism, thats why you think nothing is happening.

 

[nobdysfool]

What you are implying is that the Gospel and the Holy Spirit are a failure.

More blasphemy against Christ and the Holy Spirit.

I heard that Muslims are coming to Christ by the tens of thousands.

Very few are accepting Calvinism, thats why you think nothing is happening.

Sorry, but you're completely off base. He said nothing of the kind. As for your prejudicial remark against Calvinism, quite frankly, you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Epiphoskei]

Ideas about context cannot violate the text itself. This is the aorist, not the perfect. That does make a difference. In the aorist, the meaning is to see or to experience, in the 'aorist' sense. Three types of action in Gr. verb tenses, continuing which is perfect, progressive and aorist which is the occurrence of an event, as opposed to continuing action. This is NOT the indicative mood. Jesus repeated the statement to Nicodemus in v. 5, this time He spoke of not ENTERING the kingdom of heaven without being born of water and the Spirit. Once again, 'entering' is aorist, the happening of an event as opposed to a continuing action--to ENTER. See/experience/enter.

So when Jesus told us to take up our crosses and follow Him in the aorist, that's not continuing action?

One wonders why He says to do so daily.

There is no defined acktionsart for the aorist. It's the undefined aspect. The meaning of the aorist verb has to be taken from the text; the aorist itself brings nothing to the text.

 

[Hammster]

What you are implying is that the Gospel and the Holy Spirit are a failure.



More blasphemy against Christ and the Holy Spirit.



I heard that Muslims are coming to Christ by the tens of thousands.



Very few are accepting Calvinism, thats why you think nothing is happening.

So are we to replace Scriptural truths with anecdotes?

 

[the particular baptist]

What you are implying is that the Gospel and the Holy Spirit are a failure.

More blasphemy against Christ and the Holy Spirit.

I heard that Muslims are coming to Christ by the tens of thousands.

Very few are accepting Calvinism, thats why you think nothing is happening.

Read my sig for your answer.

Go ahead and argue for the supreme will of man like your forebears Finney, Pelagius, ect...
[sarcasm alert]Im sure god will be glad to share glory with you[/sarcasm alert]

I share the Gospel with people knowing that it is the Holy Spirit that will awaken them to the truth of God or they will remain dead in their sins. Simple as that.

 

[Robert Pate]

Read my sig for your answer.

Go ahead and argue for the supreme will of man like your forebears Finney, Pelagius, ect...
[sarcasm alert]Im sure god will be glad to share glory with you[/sarcasm alert]

I share the Gospel with people knowing that it is the Holy Spirit that will awaken them to the truth of God or they will remain dead in their sins. Simple as that.

Jesus said whosoever believes in him will be saved. That means all, anyone, everyone, can hear about Christ

Yes, the Holy Spirit is present in the gospel calling all to come to Christ.

The fall of Adam did not make him go deaf. "Faith comes by hearing the Gospel."

 

[Hammster]

Jesus said whosoever believes in him will be saved. That means all, anyone, everyone, can hear about Christ



Yes, the Holy Spirit is present in the gospel calling all to come to Christ.



The fall of Adam did not make him go deaf. "Faith comes by hearing the Gospel."

Can you show on any thread you've started a Calvinist deny that faith comes by hearing or whosoever believes will be saved?

If anyone's is denying that faith comes by hearing it is you.

 

[Epiphoskei]

As has been explained before, "whoever" implies nothing about the underlying reason and ability for faith.

But "all, anyone, everyone, can hear about Christ" is telling. No, not all can. In fact, the majority of humans have not been able to hear about Christ because they have had no preacher.

Your system only appears to work in the wholly evangelized part of the world. Where the Gospel has not spread, your views on what is fair breaks down quickly.

 

[cygnusx1]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times]I would rather believe a limited atonement that is efficacious for all men for whom it was intended, than a universal atonement that is not efficacious for anybody, except the will of men be added to it. (Charles Spurgeon, Sermons, Vol. 4, p. 70)[/FONT]

interesting quote bro , i have read it scores of times , *cyg treads carefully* are ye moving towards full blown TULIP , or do you just like the quote ?

 

[cygnusx1]

I am not Steve but I believe one who believes in baptismal regeneration is a heretic. I don't know what you mean by decisional regeneration.

"decisional regeneration" is that old heresy that states men can determine their own new birth , that they can also determine the new birth of others , usually infants , it is a flat out denial of scripture and God's Sovereignty .


YouTube - The Dangers, Results, and History of Decisional Regeneration

[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica]DECISIONAL REGENERATION [/FONT]​

[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica]BY JEFF PATON[/FONT]​

[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica]I can’t imagine the Lord of all creation, sitting upon His throne in heaven, wringing His hands saying," I hope that Suzy accepts me today!" "Oh, how I wish that Johnny would make a decision to believe in me!" This is the image that many imply in their approach to evangelism. What they fail to see is that it is not God that needs our acceptance. We are the one’s that are in need of acceptance from God!


[/FONT]Nowhere does the Bible tell unbelievers to make a decision for Christ. All of the appeals like "Choose you this day whom ye will serve" Joshua 24:15, are addressed to those who were in the family of Israel already, but were wavering on changing Gods. "God forbid that we should forsake the Lord, to serve other god’s." Verse 16. We are told in John 1:12 and 13 that "as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God," and verse 13 clarifies that we do not give spiritual birth to ourselves, but our ability to receive Him is based upon, "Which were born, not of blood, nor the will of the flesh, nor the will of man, but of God." It is clear in Scripture that man on his own cannot and will not desire to be reconciled to God. Romans 4:11 tells us, "there is none that seeketh after God." We have been so thoroughlycorrupted through the fall of Adam that there is nothing within this infected nature of ours that will allow us to desire or seek a relationship with God. God must initiate the salvation process by reaching out to us first, convicting us, and convincing us of sin and of Jesus Christ. John 6:39 and 44 clearly state that "No man can come to me except the Father which hath sent Me draw him," and we may add, this spake He of the Spirit." The timing of His conviction is determined by His will and not upon the will of a human vehicle like a preacher or a pastor.

http://www.eternalsecurity.us/decisional_regeneration.htm

 

[JDS]

"decisional regeneration" is that old heresy that states men can determine their own new birth , that they can also determine the new birth of others , usually infants , it is a flat out denial of scripture and God's Sovereignty .


YouTube - The Dangers, Results, and History of Decisional Regeneration

[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica]DECISIONAL REGENERATION [/FONT]​

[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica]BY JEFF PATON[/FONT]​

[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica]I can’t imagine the Lord of all creation, sitting upon His throne in heaven, wringing His hands saying," I hope that Suzy accepts me today!" "Oh, how I wish that Johnny would make a decision to believe in me!" This is the image that many imply in their approach to evangelism. What they fail to see is that it is not God that needs our acceptance. We are the one’s that are in need of acceptance from God!


[/FONT]Nowhere does the Bible tell unbelievers to make a decision for Christ. All of the appeals like "Choose you this day whom ye will serve" Joshua 24:15, are addressed to those who were in the family of Israel already, but were wavering on changing Gods. "God forbid that we should forsake the Lord, to serve other god’s." Verse 16. We are told in John 1:12 and 13 that "as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God," and verse 13 clarifies that we do not give spiritual birth to ourselves, but our ability to receive Him is based upon, "Which were born, not of blood, nor the will of the flesh, nor the will of man, but of God." It is clear in Scripture that man on his own cannot and will not desire to be reconciled to God. Romans 4:11 tells us, "there is none that seeketh after God." We have been so thoroughlycorrupted through the fall of Adam that there is nothing within this infected nature of ours that will allow us to desire or seek a relationship with God. God must initiate the salvation process by reaching out to us first, convicting us, and convincing us of sin and of Jesus Christ. John 6:39 and 44 clearly state that "No man can come to me except the Father which hath sent Me draw him," and we may add, this spake He of the Spirit." The timing of His conviction is determined by His will and not upon the will of a human vehicle like a preacher or a pastor.

DECISIONAL REGENERATION

Are you not ashamed to post such hogwash? An honest Calvinist I can tolerate but to post something like this is insulting and I am frankly embarrassed for you. Do you agree regularly with B57?

 

[Epiphoskei]

The call of the Gospel is "believe," not "choose." We reject decisional regeneration because, among other things, it turns justification by faith into justification by choice.

That can't be fairly confused with Hypercalvinism, because we still preach justification by faith, with a genuine appeal and offer to all, elect or reprobate alike.

 

[drstevej]

Are you not ashamed to post such hogwash? An honest Calvinist I can tolerate but to post something like this is insulting and I am frankly embarrassed for you. Do you agree regularly with B57?

Reading your analysis I guessed the video might really be worthwhile. Didn't have time to listen to all 42 minutes but the parts I read had material you really ought to consider.

JDS, do you consider Charles Finney a sound gospel preacher?

 

[drstevej]

I would also be interested in hearing from DrSteve on this one. Do you also say that someone who believes in decisional regeneration or baptismal regeneration is a heretic?

Both are errors that need the correction of Scripture to keep the gospel clear. Both can cause a person to trust an action rather than Christ. Some presentations of these views are more egregious/heretical than others.

Finney was a decisionalist and a heretic. His heresy extended beyond just his concept of man's decision but also included errant views of justification and the nature of the atonement. His Systematic Theology states what he rejects and what he believes. In these issues he rejects the orthodox view and adopts an errant view.

I am not Steve but I believe one who believes in baptismal regeneration is a heretic. I don't know what you mean by decisional regeneration.

Once again we agree on this.

 

[JDS]

Reading your analysis I guessed the video might really be worthwhile. Didn't have time to listen to all 42 minutes but the parts I read had material you really ought to consider.

JDS, do you consider Charles Finney a sound gospel preacher?

I haven't read anything by Finney but I have heard other men whom I admire speak well of him.

On another note, I think the gospel of God is the good news to the world that God, I say God the Father, will save anyone who is lost and will believe the gospel of Jesus Christ. The gospel of Jesus Christ is the truth and good news/glad tidings about his person and his work on behalf of all men.

The theme of Romans is the gospel of God. The phrase is used 7 times in scripture. six by Paul and once by Peter. Paul calls it "my gospel" 3 times for a total of 10 times it is mentioned in scripture. Paul's ministry was unique and different than the other apostles. He is the apostle to the gentiles that are all over the world.

There are 3 members of the Godhead and each are equally involved in the salvation of souls, but with different functions. I say this to you because I don't think you know it and you have some strange beliefs.