Calvinism provides an excuse for those in hell

[guuila]

So I ask again, who told you Jesus obeyed the commandments perfectly for you, so that you don't have to obey them?

Did I ever say I don't have to obey them? I said Jesus obeyed them for me, perfectly. I never said "Now I don't have to obey them!!! LOLZ"

 

[RisingSpirit]

It's a knockout !
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[FreeGrace2]

This is what I posted and asked cl:

OK, let's unpack your statement here. To be clear, the Bible promises that anyone who believes is saved eternally. Do you agree or not? That is the only issue. Period.


Do you accept or reject Rom 8:38-39? Because it answers your concerns.

38For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I bolded 2 things to help you understand the infinite grace of God: the present and the future. Paul is here saying that regardless of what comes (future), believers will not be separated from the love of Christ. Period.

Just answer my questions, please.

And this is what you come up with?? Didn't you understand a thing I said?

So you agree that you claimed that a one-day believer (what we call a temporary believer) will be in heaven despite hating God. Your previous comments stated it, this last post confirms it, and your statement in the middle denied it. Well done. This is what we mean by contradictory.

I've contradicted nothing. And you keep dodging my 2 questions. Are you going to answer them or not? Until you do, it is clear you really aren't interested in discussion, but only dodgeball, which I'm not going to play.

You have 2 serious questions before you. Answer them IF you can.

 

[guuila]

This is what I posted and asked cl:

And this is what you come up with?? Didn't you understand a thing I said?

I've contradicted nothing. And you keep dodging my 2 questions. Are you going to answer them or not? Until you do, it is clear you really aren't interested in discussion, but only dodgeball, which I'm not going to play.

You have 2 serious questions before you. Answer them IF you can.

I honestly think you have issues with logic bro. Everything crimson just said makes perfect sense. It's the exact same thing I've been trying to tell you. You're just not able to see it. It's like logic has no place in your brain. We can't help it if you refuse to follow your theology to its logical conclusion. It's like this:

p1 - If it's raining today, you need to bring an umbrella.
p2 - It's raining today.
conclusion - You need to bring an umbrella.

And you're running around screaming, "It's not logical to conclude you need to bring an umbrella!!!!!!!!"

Not much can be done for a person in that state of lunacy.

 

[guuila]

Let me lay it out in a logical fashion in hopes that FreeGrace2 can connect the dots.

p1 - If Bob believes, he has eternal life even if he decide to hate Jesus.
p2 - Bob believed last year. Bob hated Jesus yesterday, and died last night.
conclusion - Bob, the Jesus hater, went to heaven.

Yet you deny Jesus haters go to heaven. Therefore, you deny logic.

 

[Skala]

So let me get this straight..

Freegrace2 believes in Once Saved Always Saved, but those that are saved might not necessarily believe in Jesus anymore?

Woooooooooow............

I can see that his theology has no place for sanctification, regeneration, the work of the Holy Spirit to produce fruit, God's promise to finish the faith he started, etc.

 

[RisingSpirit]

I honestly think you have issues with logic bro.... .

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[Charis kai Dunamis]

For all of you looking to understand "free grace" vs. "lordship salvation", and arguments for them/against them, read Charles Ryrie's So Great Salvation and John MacAurthur's The Gospel According to Jesus.

 

[crimsonleaf]

I'll answer your two questions, firstly to show that I'm not "frightened" to answer them, or worried about the implications, but secondly I wouldn't want it on my conscience that I'd allowed you to break your arm patting yourself on the back for another "victory" over us dumb Calvinists.

OK, let's unpack your statement here. To be clear, the Bible promises that anyone who believes is saved eternally. Do you agree or not? That is the only issue. Period.

Yes, the bible promises that whoever dies in belief inherits eternal life. It doesn't say that someone who believed for 30 seconds at some point during his 5th birthday party will be saved. It says "anyone who believes" (present tense) not "anyone who believed" (past tense).

Do you accept or reject Rom 8:38-39? Because it answers your concerns.

38For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I bolded 2 things to help you understand the infinite grace of God: the present and the future. Paul is here saying that regardless of what comes (future), believers will not be separated from the love of Christ. Period.


Just answer my questions, please.

Yes, I accept that when Paul wrote his letter to current and true believers in Rome he indicated that nothing would separate them from Christ.

But one thing I wouldn't do if I were you, is boast that you're offering me any kind of help in understanding anything. It's a synergist's failing to forget to whom epistles are addressed when trying to strangle a heretical doctrine from Scripture. You've proved conclusively that logic plays no part in your thinking, and now you've shown that your exegesis falls short of any of the benchmarks set by my friends here.

By the way, John 3:16 also says "whosoever believes" and not "whosoever believed". I'd leave this one now and concentrate on one of your other mistakes if I were you.

 

[guuila]

For all of you looking to understand "free grace" vs. "lordship salvation", and arguments for them/against them, read Charles Ryrie's So Great Salvation and John MacAurthur's The Gospel According to Jesus.

I have read MacArthur's book.

 

[Hammster]

I have read MacArthur's book.

Same here.

 

[guuila]

By the way, John 3:16 also says "whosoever believes" and not "whosoever believed". I'd leave this one now and concentrate on one of your other mistakes if I were you.

Fear not, therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows. So everyone who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven, but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven. (Matthew 10:31-33 ESV)

No one who denies the Son has the Father. (1 John 2:23 ESV)

Debate over.

 

[Walter2013]

You sure want His healing and salvation, but you do not want anything to do with His commandments.

"Jesus, you go mix the ingredients, put the bread into the oven, and take it out when it is done. Just call me when you have it ready to eat.

And what the heck do you mean by striving to enter the narrow gate? And what is this keeping your commandments to inherit eternal life? You must be speaking of someone else; it sounds like you haven't heard the gospel Paul preaches. Jesus, I advise you to amend your teachings to correlate with Paul's grace teachings."

You clearly don't understand the Gospel... you're promoting a works salvation.

 

[Hammster]

You clearly don't understand the Gospel... you're promoting a works salvation.

How is that different from what you believe? Don't you believe that you have to do things to be saved?

 

[Jack Terrence]

So you agree that you claimed that a one-day believer (what we call a temporary believer) will be in heaven despite hating God. Your previous comments stated it, this last post confirms it, and your statement in the middle denied it. Well done. This is what we mean by contradictory.

Caught him in a contradiction!

 

[Ask Seek Knock]

You clearly don't understand the Gospel... you're promoting a works salvation.

Jesus promoted a works salvation. I guess you think He didn't understand the gospel either.

Paul's gospel promoted salvation without works, not the gospel Jesus preached.

 

[Hammster]

Jesus promoted a works salvation. I guess you think He didn't understand the gospel either.

Paul's gospel promoted salvation without works, not the gospel Jesus preached.

Then what was the point of the cross?

 

[Ask Seek Knock]

Did I ever say I don't have to obey them? I said Jesus obeyed them for me, perfectly. I never said "Now I don't have to obey them!!! LOLZ"

Where does it say Jesus obeyed the commandments for you? You sure like to add things to the Bible.

 

[Ask Seek Knock]

Then what was the point of the cross?

What did Jesus say was the point of the cross? This will be interesting.

 

[Metal Minister]

What did Jesus say was the point of the cross? This will be interesting.

Actually what would be interesting is for you to answer my earlier post. Here it is again:

The ironic thing is, you MUST believe Paul's writings are inspired, or your salvation, no, your WHOLE theology and belief system is hanging on the line.

This prevents you from testing any of Paul's writings to see if they are true. You must accept them, whether false or true. You must take Paul's words as truth, even though Paul called himself a liar and a deceiver.

Thus, Paul keeps you in bondage to his gospel.

So when you claim Paul's words aren't inspired, do you think Peter is lying? 2Peter 3:15-16

Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Because if Peter is lying, then I guess he wasn't inspired either right? So you just threw out about half the new testament in your zeal to "debunk" calvinism.