Calvinism provides an excuse for those in hell

[Hammster]

You may be a "true" Biblicist, but I'm a staunch one. That means I'm more of one than you.

When you're true, their dc no need to staunchness. It's assumed.

 

[Ask Seek Knock]

Paul didn't call himself a liar. Not without rhetoric, anyway. Most people understand that.

What I understand is that Jesus is the Truth, and did not lie for God's glory or otherwise. Sorry, lying is forbidden by God; is this how you see it, or do you think it is permissible to lie?

I guess you can deny what Paul himself said; we tend to overlook the faults of our heroes. Perhaps you would like to juggle words around to justify Paul's lying. So go ahead, knock yourself out.

Also, those who lie, tend to forget what they have said earlier. Would you mind telling me how many versions of Paul's conversion did he tell others? By the way, they all are different.

Romans 3:7
For if the truth of God has increased through my lie to His glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner?

 

[Ask Seek Knock]

Why did Jesus have to die?

Here we go. Instead of answering my questions, you take a side road. I'm not going there. Please stay with what I asked. Thank you.

 

[Ask Seek Knock]

Why did Jesus have to die?

So I ask again, who told you Jesus obeyed the commandments perfectly for you, so that you don't have to obey them?

 

[Hammster]

What I understand is that Jesus is the Truth, and did not lie for God's glory or otherwise. Sorry, lying is forbidden by God; is this how you see it, or do you think it is permissible to lie?

I guess you can deny what Paul himself said; we tend to overlook the faults of our heroes. Perhaps you would like to juggle words around to justify Paul's lying. So go ahead, knock yourself out.

Also, those who lie, tend to forget what they have said earlier. Would you mind telling me how many versions of Paul's conversion did he tell others? By the way, they all are different.

Romans 3:7
For if the truth of God has increased through my lie to His glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner?

Like I said, it appears that some people don't understand rhetoric.

 

[Hammster]

Here we go. Instead of answering my questions, you take a side road. I'm not going there. Please stay with what I asked. Thank you.

You didn't ask me anything. Why did Jesus have to die if obeying the commandments leads to eternal life?

 

[Ask Seek Knock]

So, just an interesting observation. Here we have a man (who hates Calvinism) on FreeGrace2's thread teaching that Paul's words aren't inspired. Do you think FreeGrace2 is actually going to correct him on this error? Of course not. FreeGrace2 is going to pretend he doesn't see it. Why? Because by doing so, he has gained a comrade that will aid him on his crusade to make Calvinism look as ugly as he possibly can.

Amazing how many times I've seen this on these forums. Someone can come along and promote the most ungodly, horrific teaching known to man, but hey, if he hates Calvinism, well, the attitude of the synergists (and the like) is like "Hey! Welcome to the discussion brother!" All error gets a free pass as long as the one promoting it hates Calvinism.

Would you like some cheese with your whine?

 

[Ask Seek Knock]

Except God by his Holiness and our sinfulness makes it an issue, one which he answers through the Cross. The prophet Isaiah emphatically lays the foundation upon which it is improper for the Creature (in this case you) to claim that God is doing wrong by differentiating based on his own whims when he talks of the clay answering back to the potter saying "your work has no handles," that is after all what you are doing when you say that God uses sin as an excuse.

Isaiah 29:
15 Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the Lord, and their works are in the dark, and they say, Who seeth us? and who knoweth us?
16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?

This is talking of those who are seek to hide their counsel from God, and whose works are in darkness. Their turning of things upside down is compared to the potter's clay, in which they talk back to God.

 

[Ask Seek Knock]

I can disprove your position without needing Paul,

Why do you need Paul? Why are you dependent upon him? Is he your savior? Is he your life?

Anyway, please explain election before the foundation of the world without Paul. Explain adoption without Paul. Explain predestination without Paul. Explain Adam's sin in all mankind without Paul. Explain how the commandments are abolished without Paul.

people just find it easier to deal with Paul because he's pretty no-nonsense about dealing with everything.

I find it strange you find it easier to deal with Paul, rather than Jesus. That's because Jesus' words demand something from you, and that just doesn't sit well with some.

I'd still like to see a list of the books you see as canonical so I know just how to address you.

What does the canon have to do with Truth? There have been a multitude of canons. Where does it say we must have a canon by which to measure truth?

 

[Ask Seek Knock]

So when you claim Paul's words aren't inspired, do you think Peter is lying? 2Peter 3:15-16

How can one's words be inspired when he admits to lying? How can one's words be inspired when he admits to deceiving people?

Peter speaking about Paul's letters is no different than if James White were speaking about R.C. Sproul's letters.

 

[Ask Seek Knock]

He actually told the Jews to obey the commandments.

You sure want His healing and salvation, but you do not want anything to do with His commandments.

"Jesus, you go mix the ingredients, put the bread into the oven, and take it out when it is done. Just call me when you have it ready to eat.

And what the heck do you mean by striving to enter the narrow gate? And what is this keeping your commandments to inherit eternal life? You must be speaking of someone else; it sounds like you haven't heard the gospel Paul preaches. Jesus, I advise you to amend your teachings to correlate with Paul's grace teachings."

 

[FreeGrace2]

The point is, you believe God haters will be in heaven.

The real point is that you don't know what you are talking about. Sad.

 

[FreeGrace2]

John 3:16 is a perfect example of what I'm saying. Show me one instance where the Bible teaches a person who no longer believes is saved.

The real question is: show me one verse that says that a person who no longer believes loses salvation, isn't saved, etc. Ya got one, bud?

[QUOT4E]I honestly don't know what you're saying here. Poor sentence construction.[/QUOTE]
It's not the sentence construction that's the problem. Here's what I said:

But maybe you don't believe Paul, like ASK and his use of verb tenses, huh.

I'll, uh, translate for you. But maybe you don't believe, as ASK doesn't believe Paul, or Paul's use of verb tenses (reference to Acts 16:31). That help?

Great verse. Pisteuson in that verse is an aorist, active verb. Totally refutes your theology.

Really. You just made a case for present tense. So how does it? Your claim is only an opinion without support.

 

[FreeGrace2]

According to your theology he is.

He never believed. He's not in heaven. You are the one to claim he was saved. And you dodged my question for evidence. Quit waffling.

 

[FreeGrace2]

QUOTE=FreeGrace2;64084035]I've been consistent throughout, as you well know.

"
The point is, you have no idea what you are saying. I've never said that. But you are only trying to attach words to me that I haven't said.

Intellectual dishonesty. Knock yourself out."

So why will someone who hates God be in heaven?[/QUOTE]
Why ask me? I never said anything close to that.

 

[guuila]

He never believed. He's not in heaven. You are the one to claim he was saved. And you dodged my question for evidence. Quit waffling.

I claimed Judas was saved? Do you not understand that I was assuming your theology and not mine when I said that? Evidently not. I'll make sure and slow down for you next time, boss.

 

[crimsonleaf]

"

So why will someone who hates God be in heaven?

Why ask me? I never said anything close to that.

You claim that anyone who once believed is saved. This (by definition) must include those who have forsaken their belief and who die hating God. Ergo, according to you there are people in heaven who hate God.

Spin it how you want, it's what you said and is now what (as usual) you're contradicting.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You claim that anyone who once believed is saved.

OK, let's unpack your statement here. To be clear, the Bible promises that anyone who believes is saved eternally. Do you agree or not? That is the only issue. Period.

This (by definition) must include those who have forsaken their belief and who die hating God. Ergo, according to you there are people in heaven who hate God.

Do you accept or reject Rom 8:38-39? Because it answers your concerns.

38For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I bolded 2 things to help you understand the infinite grace of God: the present and the future. Paul is here saying that regardless of what comes (future), believers will not be separated from the love of Christ. Period.

Spin it how you want, it's what you said and is now what (as usual) you're contradicting.

Just answer my questions, please.

 

[crimsonleaf]

OK, let's unpack your statement here. To be clear, the Bible promises that anyone who believes is saved eternally. Do you agree or not? That is the only issue. Period.


Do you accept or reject Rom 8:38-39? Because it answers your concerns.

38For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I bolded 2 things to help you understand the infinite grace of God: the present and the future. Paul is here saying that regardless of what comes (future), believers will not be separated from the love of Christ. Period.


Just answer my questions, please.

So you agree that you claimed that a one-day believer (what we call a temporary believer) will be in heaven despite hating God. Your previous comments stated it, this last post confirms it, and your statement in the middle denied it. Well done. This is what we mean by contradictory.

 

[guuila]

So you agree that you claimed that a one-day believer (what we call a temporary believer) will be in heaven despite hating God. Your previous comments stated it, this last post confirms it, and your statement in the middle denied it. Well done. This is what we mean by contradictory.