Calvinism, explained.

ToBeLoved · Jan 15, 2016

This is one of the most confusing threads I have ever read.

It seems like everyone is replying to a thread with something that doesn't apply to what they replied to. Like everyone wants to write just to be heard but not to make sense in the thread itself.

Can we get back on track, not be over dramatic and actually write reply to the posts that we are referencing?

I am so confused. My head is hurting trying to follow this.

ladodgers6 · Jan 16, 2016

ToBeLoved said:
What?

Can you please rewrite your sentence so I can answer what ever your trying to say (above)?

Sorry got distracted.The Gospel is for the ungodly....

ladodgers6 · Jan 16, 2016

ToBeLoved said:
Why would anyone further confuse things by calling the gospel, the universal announcement? That is the most confusing thing I have almost ever heard. Take something as simple as the gospel that most people understand what it means and rename it something as vague as the 'universal announcement'? Are you kidding me?

The Gospel is to be preached to everyone! So its to be announced to everyone,correct?

jimmyjimmy · Jan 16, 2016

ToBeLoved said:
Take something as simple as the gospel that most people understand what it means

I've found that most people do not understand what the gospel is. Can you summarize it?

ToBeLoved · Jan 16, 2016

ladodgers6 said:
Sorry got distracted.The Gospel is for the ungodly....

If you are saying what I think you are saying then yes.

If you are saying that the gospel is for those who have NOT been saved by the blood of Jesus Christ on the cross, then we are in agreement.

Those who are saved have the indwelling Holy Spirit, God Himself indwelling them and are already saved.

ladodgers6 · Jan 16, 2016

ToBeLoved said:
If you are saying what I think you are saying then yes.

If you are saying that the gospel is for those who have NOT been saved by the blood of Jesus Christ on the cross, then we are in agreement.

Those who are saved have the indwelling Holy Spirit, God Himself indwelling them and are already saved.

Do sinners contribute anything toward their Redemption other than just their sin?

ToBeLoved · Jan 16, 2016

ladodgers6 said:
Do sinners contribute anything toward their Redemption other than just their sin?

We are saved by faith. So a sinner must come to God in faith.

ladodgers6 · Jan 16, 2016

ToBeLoved said:
We are saved by faith. So a sinner must come to God in faith.

Would you agree that we are not saved by Faith,but through Faith in Christ Jesus.In other words,Faith itself does not save us.Faith receives what saves namely Christ.

jimmyjimmy · Jan 17, 2016

ToBeLoved said:
If you are saying that the gospel is for those who have NOT been saved by the blood of Jesus Christ on the cross, then we are in agreement. Those who are saved have the indwelling Holy Spirit, God Himself indwelling them and are already saved.

The gospel is for God's elect, and it's for their entire lives not just entry into His kingdom.

". . .in our Christian life we never “get beyond the gospel” to something more advanced. The gospel is not the first step in a stairway of truths; rather, it is more like the hub in a wheel of truth. The gospel is not just the ABCs but the A to Z of Christianity. The gospel is not the minimum required doctrine necessary to enter the kingdom but the way we make all progress in the kingdom.

We are not justified by the gospel and then sanctified by obedience; rather the gospel is the way we grow (Gal. 3:1–3) and are renewed (Col. 1:6)."

The above is taken from The Centrality of the Gospel by Tim Keller.

http://download.redeemer.com/pdf/learn/resources/Centrality_of_the_Gospel-Keller.pdf

sdowney717 · Jan 17, 2016

1 Corinthians 15New King James Version (NKJV)
The Risen Christ, Faith’s Reality
15 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand,
2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that
Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that
He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,
5 and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. 6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. 7 After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. 8 Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time.

This chapter in its entirety all the way to our glorified bodies which we will receive, is the gospel well defined.

ToBeLoved · Jan 17, 2016

ladodgers6 said:
The Gospel is to be preached to everyone! So its to be announced to everyone,correct?

I don't know if 'announced' is the word I would use. To announce is just to state something to a group of people.

What is to give our testimony and the gospel legs is that our lives are changed. That is why we are to be a light to the world, a light that shines bright in the darkness.

Personal testimony in words and deeds always outshines just words alone. I think in our culture we have experienced that words alone are sometimes not taken seriously as people act upon what they believe and feel is morally right.

ladodgers6 · Jan 17, 2016

ToBeLoved said:
I don't know if 'announced' is the word I would use. To announce is just to state something to a group of people.

Okay I use proclamation of the Gospel.

What is to give our testimony and the gospel legs is that our lives are changed. That is why we are to be a light to the world, a light that shines bright in the darkness.

See I beg to differ.The Gospel has legs because its the POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION...,And the Gospel is about the LIFE OF CHRIST,not ours!

Personal testimony in words and deeds always outshines just words alone. I think in our culture we have experienced that words alone are sometimes not taken seriously as people act upon what they believe and feel is morally right.

Well I also beg to differ,because the Gospel is for the ungodly,not for the righteous.Our sanctification flows from our Justification in Christ through Faith.But this whole thing,is not our own doing,it is the GIFT OF GOD!

Marvin Knox · Jan 18, 2016

thatbrian said:
I've found that most people do not understand what the gospel is.

The gospel message is first and foremost a commandment directly from God. I think a lot of people forget that.

Repent!

Believe!

Those are imperatives - not just statements of facts about what was accomplished by Christ.

The gospel message is to express a command from God in a forceful way.

One of the ways of expressing these commands in a forceful way is to also tell people what the consequences will be if they fail to obey these commandments from God.

People are told to repent specifically of their own sins.

People are told to believe specifically that Christ died for their sins and that believing they will have forgiveness.

If they obey the commands of God and therefore repent of their sins and believe the message of forgiveness they will be shown by so doing to be among the elect.

My 2 cents worth.

ToBeLoved · Jan 18, 2016

ladodgers6 said:
.
See I beg to differ.The Gospel has legs because its the POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION...,And the Gospel is about the LIFE OF CHRIST,not ours!
!

Of course the gospel is about Christ, but the unsaved we are talking to are going to look at our words and deeds. They are evaluating us as people along w the gospel

ToBeLoved · Jan 18, 2016

ladodgers6 said:
Okay I use proclamation of the Gospel.
See I beg to differ.The Gospel has legs because its the POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION...,And the Gospel is about the LIFE OF CHRIST,not ours!
Well I also beg to differ,because the Gospel is for the ungodly,not for the righteous.Our sanctification flows from our Justification in Christ through Faith.But this whole thing,is not our own doing,it is the GIFT OF GOD!

So you think that if the person who is sharing the gospel is a thief that has no bearing on how the person hearing the gospel reacts to it? Hmmmm

ladodgers6 · Jan 18, 2016

ToBeLoved said:
So you think that if the person who is sharing the gospel is a thief that has no bearing on how the person hearing the gospel reacts to it? Hmmmm

So I must inherently righteous before I can preach or hear the Gospel????????????????

ladodgers6 · Jan 18, 2016

ToBeLoved said:
Of course the gospel is about Christ, but the unsaved we are talking to are going to look at our words and deeds. They are evaluating us as people along w the gospel

Its not about us,but Christ! Its the object of the Gospel,not the subjective;meaning us at the center of it!

Job8 · Jan 19, 2016

ToBeLoved said:
I am so confused. My head is hurting trying to follow this.

When Calvinism is explained, it does give you a headache.

Job8 · Jan 19, 2016

thatbrian said:
I've found that most people do not understand what the gospel is. Can you summarize it?

The Gospel is the Good News -- the Glad Tidings -- that anyone and everyone who repents and believes on the Lord Jesus Christ SHALL be saved, for whosoever (anyone and everyone who) shall call upon the Name of the Lord, shall be saved (Rom 10:13).

Marvin Knox · Jan 19, 2016

Job8 said:
The Gospel is the Good News -- the Glad Tidings -- that anyone and everyone who repents and believes on the Lord Jesus Christ SHALL be saved, for whosoever (anyone and everyone who) shall call upon the Name of the Lord, shall be saved (Rom 10:13).

Right on.

Any evangelical worth the name believes the gospel that way. That goes for Calvinists as well as non-Calvinists.

The only difference between what the Calvinist and the non-Calvinist believes about the gospel has to do with what they see in scriptures that the odds are of someone repenting and believing in a saving way..

The non-Calvinist would say that the odds are that a great many will repent and believe the gospel without any change in their fallen nature coming first.

The Calvinist would say the odds are exactly zero without some kind of change of nature coming first.

Most everyone knows by now where Calvinists get that idea from scripture. No sense reprinting all of those scriptures again here.

The question is whether one will take those scriptures literally or will feel the need to tweak them a bit or even disregard them because of where they might lead them in their theology.

As for me - I like my scripture as straight as I can stand it.

When I see in the scriptures that fallen men are spiritually dead, unable to understand the things of God, unable to come to Christ unless the Father draws them and specifically gives them to the Son - I have no problem with taking those scriptures straight up.

When I see example after example of how the Lord does that through the work of His Spirit - that's about all I need to cause me to come down generally toward the Calvinist side of the ledger.

Calvinism, explained.

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