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The doctrine of God's prior knowledge of everything that happens demands a belief in the predestination of all things.Where does God explain to us EVERYTHING is predestined?
The doctrine of God's prior knowledge of everything that happens demands a belief in the predestination of all things.
Absolutely nothing and no one has existence outside of the Word of God in whom we live and move and have our being.
Since absolutely nothing happens that is not accomplished through God's indwelling Word - God is the one who does the predestining.
This isn't exactly spiritual rocket science.
You can call it whatever you like. It's still God's foreknowledge of everything that He created, which is everything (even the 'consequences' of creation are His doing)!! No matter how you want to slice it and dice it, God is control of ALL, and ALL things fall into place according to His will.I totally agree, but this isn't predestination.
You can call it whatever you like. It's still God's foreknowledge of everything that He created, which is everything (even the 'consequences' of creation are His doing)!! No matter how you want to slice it and dice it, God is control of ALL, and ALL things fall into place according to His will.
You can assume whatever you want.And just where did God explain this? To whom did God explain this?................You said, 'I do understand predestination at least as far as it has been explained to us by God.' I then asked you where God explained predestination to us. You came up with zilch! The truth of the matter is that God explains predestination nowhere...absolutely nowhere!..........................So please Marvin, please provide us the proof that God has explained predestination. If you can't, then I can only assume you are making this stuff up.
God knows everything that will happen in the future. There is absolutely not one chance in a million that what He knows will happen will not happen. The destiny of all things is set in stone within the omniscient mind of God.A knowledge of all things does not demand, nor require predestination. Things will happen according to His knowledge...period. God knows exactly and precisely, everything that will befall you tomorrow Marvin. And He doesn't have to to rely upon predestination for all of it to come to pass. You are making His knowledge lame, and predestination its crutch.
To me, when you use the word 'foreknowledge' that makes me think 'before'. But God is not held to time, so to Him the past, present and future may all be one thing. Who knows the complexity of God?You can call it whatever you like. It's still God's foreknowledge of everything that He created, which is everything (even the 'consequences' of creation are His doing)!! No matter how you want to slice it and dice it, God is control of ALL, and ALL things fall into place according to His will.
You can assume whatever you want.
But, if I were you, I'd read and absorb the entire Word of God and look at this thing systematically.
You have a tendency to find and quote only the scriptures which "prove" your point. The proper way to approach the Word of God is to believe ALL of it first. If you will do that you will arrive at a theology which contains both side of a controversial doctrine. This will be God's side.
You pick and choose what you like to believe and leave the other things out. Your position on salvation is a prime example.
I (and most of my kind) believe every scripture you have ever provided for us concerning the way that human works plays into salvation. We believe all of the Word.
The problem with out conversations is that you will not reciprocate. If you did - we would agree on these things - both coming under the umbrella of the entire Word of God.
If you will not read and absorb every aspect of God's revelation into your theology - I will not provide page after page of counters to the page after page of cut and pastes which you provide. If we got into that - we'd have to reprint the entire Bible in a year's worth of posts.
I won't and can't provide a systematic theology of every aspect of the Word of God for you.
God knows everything that will happen in the future. There is absolutely not one chance in a million that what He knows will happen will not happen. The destiny of all things is set in stone within the omniscient mind of God.
Since He knew it all from when there was nothing but Himself in existence (the proper understanding of the doctrine of omniscience as opposed to so called "process" theology and the like) - all that takes place in His creation is "predestined" to take place just as He knows that it will.
When you combine this knowledge with what has been revealed to us about the way that all created things work in relation to their creator (Who has been revealed to be omniscient, omnipresent, and providentially controlling) - you will understand predestination properly. If you just pick and choose certain scriptures (as you tend to do) you will continue to come down on the wrong side of the doctrine.
You and I have complete freedom to make choices as we see fit. We will answer for our choices. Those choices will play a part in the playing out of all that God has predestined to take place. The doctrines of predestination and and free will are completely compatible.
Your problem is that you continue to present that doctrine in such a light that God becomes the author, and creator of every individual sin. The proper way to look at the doctrine is the way that I look at it. Men and angels are responsible for their own sin and will be judged accordingly.
You have been corrected on these things many times and you continue to misrepresent my beliefs and the beliefs of Calvinists concerning God's relationship to sin and resultant evil.
You don't get to make up things about what I believe. I will gladly tell you what I believe and why.
Exactly so.You don't believe in free will, but limited free will,
Exactly so.
You are "free" only in so far as the creation (which has it's very existence in God) can be free.
You are not God and you will never be God.
It's really that simple.
No - it comes from what the Christian scriptures clearly teach.Marvin, you really shouldn't hang onto that belief. It comes from gnosticism.
So now free will is a gnostic doctrine?I've shown Augustine held to the gnostic doctrine concerning free will, but that seems to be okay with you. All Reformed theology get most, if not all their doctrines from this Catholic monk. You can't cover for Calvin and Luther, and their love for Augustinian theology, for your theology depends greatly upon these two men.
Right, because God is surprised by the choices of men. Like that time when those people chose to kill the man who made them look bad. The man who just happened to be God Himself. I sure hope that went according to plan.Why can't I call it what I like? You call what you like, Doug.
I had rather use 'knowledge' instead of foreknowledge.
Interesting statement you make in that 'even the consequences of creation are His doing'. You try hard not to make God the author of sin, but you can't get around that.
Another interesting statement you make in that 'all things fall into place according to His will'. Perhaps you can show where it is God's will for man to sin.
Actually it did according to Jesus Christ. It went according to plan because they could not have taken His life if He had not laid it down by His own free will.Right, because God is surprised by the choices of men. Like that time when those people chose to kill the man who made them look bad. The man who just happened to be God Himself. I sure hope that went according to plan.
EmSw says that God has no plan.Actually it did according to Jesus Christ. It went according to plan because they could not have taken His life if He had not laid it down by His own free will.
John 10:17-18
17 "For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again. 18 "No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father."
Why then do 25 verses say 'by faith'.The doctrine of God's prior knowledge of everything that happens demands a belief in the predestination of all things.
Absolutely nothing and no one has existence outside of the Word of God in whom we live and move and have our being.
Since absolutely nothing happens that is not accomplished through God's indwelling Word - God is the one who does the predestining.
These are fairly basic deductions for anyone looking systematically at the subject of predestination.
Just to clarify, that was GillDouglas statement.EmSw says that God has no plan.
All of us obviously disagree with him.
No - it comes from what the Christian scriptures clearly teach.
You just don't incorporate all of the scriptures into your theology. You left out the part that makes you the creature and Him only the creator.
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