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It doesn’t seem that He loves them enough to save them from their bad choices, though.
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It doesn’t seem that He loves them enough to save them from their bad choices, though.Of course. That doesn't mean he didn't love them. He gave them their way, after all.
P3: God shows no partiality, i.e. God's judgments are not conditioned by any non-moral aspect of a person. So, God doesn't give grace just because one is Jewish or Gentile or tall or short, etc. God's judgments are fair, in terms of righteousness.
The conclusion is that the combination of God's love, desire, sovereignty, justice, and freedom leads to all being saved.
I like it as an argument. I really do. This youngster is going places.
It goes to God loving all equally, in light of Romans 9:13 in the context of 9:10-13.What this verse proves? Does this prove that God created people for hell and make them liable for judgement for something he caused them for before eternity?
Thanks.
I agree with your use of "partiality" as far as you go with it here. But, no, this doesn't seem to me to be his use of God's non-partiality in his argument. He takes it for a blanket statement that God treats everyone the same.
It is silly, though. Calvinism simply doesn't use the terms he uses the same way he uses them. The terms, 'Partiality', 'Love', 'Justice' and 'Freedom' all mean something different to Calvinism than what he uses them to say, and, in spite of his present use of 'Sovereignty', I can pretty well guarantee by what he has said so far, that he doesn't mean the same thing by it either, that Calvinism does.
I think he means to conclude, that if Calvinism used the terms the way he thinks they should be used, that it would logically lead to Universalism.
Definition of Rhetorical QuestionI’m a father. There’s nothing my children could do that would make me disown them, not make them suffer for eternity.
Am I a better father than God? Why or why not?
Definition:Definition of Rhetorical Question
I believe Gods love is determined by our actions but his love never changes. Never said God cannot love someone I said he loves all equally. Meaning if ones a sinner than God doesn't love them because they not his children because they chose that path. God love won't change for creation you understand what i mean when I said that?God loves some and not others.
Our young friend eliminates that quandary. He sees that as a bad thing. I see it as a step in the right direction.
If it is in that case than you stand correctly i presume. Also, English is my first language I just am trash at typing I am American.It is silly, though. Calvinism simply doesn't use the terms he uses the same way he uses them. The terms, 'Partiality', 'Love', 'Justice' and 'Freedom' all mean something different to Calvinism than what he uses them to say, and, in spite of his present use of 'Sovereignty', I can pretty well guarantee by what he has said so far, that he doesn't mean the same thing by it either, that Calvinism does.
I think he means to conclude, that if Calvinism used the terms the way he thinks they should be used, that it would logically lead to Universalism.
God love equally in what I mean by that is the present actions of a person doesn't change the feelings of God towards that person. Gods love is perfect is why he doesn't change according to a person actionsIt goes to God loving all equally, in light of Romans 9:13 in the context of 9:10-13.
You are not a better Father than God because Gods discernment is more upon the persons rejection of his love than him just disowning them. Thats why i ask if God loves all babies to see if you agree or disagree.I’m a father. There’s nothing my children could do that would make me disown them, not make them suffer for eternity.
Am I a better father than God? Why or why not?
He does I don't disagree, does God knowledge takes away free will? God creating people for hell does sound wrong when we say it as such because we understand God forknews each event so we understand they made the choice which he knew they would. God wouldn't stop creating because he knows they would choose hell over him.I agree God has predestined some to perdition, and absolutely does have the right to do so.
theres two different forms of Calvinism hyper and mainstream. What i mean by soft is traditional Calvinism and not double-predestination.What are you referring to by 'John Calvinism soft determinism'. I know what determinism is --I don't need that explained-- but why 'soft'? Why not simply, 'determinism'
The Question is why would God won't do it?hat makes you think he would --your reasoning, or the Bible?
Free will isn't over Gods sovereignty its Compatible with it.God is not sovereign if he lends a bit of sovereignty to someone else --i.e. "freewill" as some define it. It is self-contradictory for there to be more than one sovereign
I believe Gods love is determined by our actions but his love never changes. Never said God cannot love someone I said he loves all equally. Meaning if ones a sinner than God doesn't love them because they not his children because they chose that path. God love won't change for creation you understand what i mean when I said that?
I believe more in the compatibilism philosophy I believe in determinism to an extinct.Right, you believe in some libertarian free will. You have a strange way of putting it, but it's not uncommon.
Do you believe some people are 'just better' than others? What else would explain how some people choose right when others choose wrong?I believe more in the compatibilism philosophy I believe in determinism to an extinct.
that every person chooses according to his or her greatest desire. In other words, people will always choose what they want-- and what they want is determined by (and consistent with) their moral nature. God has influence on our desires, Is why he has full control of what goes on past, future, and present.Do you believe some people are 'just better' than others? What else would explain how some people choose right when others choose wrong?
that every person chooses according to his or her greatest desire. In other words, people will always choose what they want-- and what they want is determined by (and consistent with) their moral nature. God has influence on our desires, Is why he has full control of what goes on past, future, and present.
Calvinist believes unconditional I believe conditional lol. I believe we can reject Gods grace which is bestowed to his creation before eternity through the Son. Is why we are chosen in Christ before the foundations of the world because his grace was bestowed only through believing in ChristThat's very Augustianian, almost Calvinist.
Calvinist believes unconditional I believe conditional lol. I believe we can reject Gods grace which is bestowed to his creation before eternity through the Son. Is why we are chosen in Christ before the foundations of the world because his grace was bestowed only through believing in Christ
Do you have scripture to support the idea that God's love is determined by our actions?I believe Gods love is determined by our actions but his love never changes. Never said God cannot love someone I said he loves all equally. Meaning if ones a sinner than God doesn't love them because they not his children because they chose that path. God love won't change for creation you understand what i mean when I said that?
If it is in that case than you stand correctly i presume. Also, English is my first language I just am trash at typing I am American.
God love equally in what I mean by that is the present actions of a person doesn't change the feelings of God towards that person. Gods love is perfect is why he doesn't change according to a person actions
You are not a better Father than God because Gods discernment is more upon the persons rejection of his love than him just disowning them. Thats why i ask if God loves all babies to see if you agree or disagree.
He does I don't disagree, does God knowledge takes away free will? God creating people for hell does sound wrong when we say it as such because we understand God forknews each event so we understand they made the choice which he knew they would. God wouldn't stop creating because he knows they would choose hell over him.
theres two different forms of Calvinism hyper and mainstream. What i mean by soft is traditional Calvinism and not double-predestination.
Do you mean, Why would God not give unconditional grace to everyone? --Read Romans 9:10-23 Some he made for one purpose, some for another. That's why.The Question is why would God won't do it?
Well, then, "free will" is not uncaused, not sovereign, not autonomous. It is only will. Actual choiceFree will isn't over Gods sovereignty its Compatible with it.
that every person chooses according to his or her greatest desire. In other words, people will always choose what they want-- and what they want is determined by (and consistent with) their moral nature. God has influence on our desires, Is why he has full control of what goes on past, future, and present.
Think what you are saying here. Does cause-and-effect not rule? Is it not pervasive? Is there something, besides God, that is not caused within the chain of cause-and-effect? Then everything is caused by God, directly or indirectly. Nothing happens spontaneously. So, everything is determined. There is no 'extent' to which it goes and no further.I believe more in the compatibilism philosophy I believe in determinism to an extinct.
Arminianism my friend is the view I have concerning election and compatablism is my view concerning free will.Do you mean like Origen, pre-existence of souls? So, somehow we freely determine our fate, so to speak, prior to our material existence? I'm just trying to get a sense of what you mean.
If something happens apart from Gods determination isn't that a paradox.Nothing happens spontaneously. So, everything is determined. There is no 'extent' to which it goes and no further.
What does rule, if not everything (besides God) is caused?
Nothing happens apart from God's determination.If something happens apart from Gods determination isn't that a paradox.
You are not a better Father than God because Gods discernment is more upon the persons rejection of his love than him just disowning them. Thats why i ask if God loves all babies to see if you agree or disagree.
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