Calvinism and Evangelism

[edie19]

Randy - absolutely wonderful point by point response!

I've had conversations with folks who call God selfish when I make the comment that He does things to bring glory to Himself. Never quite understand where they get that idea, but oh well. If it's ok, I'm going to borrow your response.

Also - do you have a reference for the John Piper quote? I'd like to read more.

edie

 

[Rolf Ernst]

.
The preaching of the Word is the means which God has ordained to bring men to faith in Christ Jesus (Rom 10:17). No man knows the heart of any man, nor do we know who God has elected. As Spurgeon has said, "If God would have painted a yellow stripe on the backs of the elect I would go around lifting shirts. But since He didn't I must preach `whosoever will' and when `whosoever' believes I know he is one of the elect."

Now there is truth that is razor sharp and comically humorous at the same time. Did you Arminians hear that?

 

[Rolf Ernst]

why do we need to get out there and do anything?

God Bless

hmmm

 

[seekingpurity047]

Randy - absolutely wonderful point by point response!

I've had conversations with folks who call God selfish when I make the comment that He does things to bring glory to Himself. Never quite understand where they get that idea, but oh well. If it's ok, I'm going to borrow your response.

Also - do you have a reference for the John Piper quote? I'd like to read more.

edie

Sure edie, you can go ahead and use my post. Let me just point a little correction that Rolf Ernst pointed out to me privately... replace eros with Phileo. Once again, rolf, thanks for informing me about the mistake. I am not a greek scholar... yet! LOL....

As for the John Piper quote. Umm... The reason why i didn't source it was because I got it from one of his video seminars that we are watching at my church. I'm sure you can find it on his website... www.desiringgod.org and the series is called "The Blazing Center". It's a spectacular series so far, and I highly suggest it to everyone. Christ centered and Christ glorifying series. Great stuff!

To the glory of God,

Randy

 

[orthedoxy]

I'm just wondering if we can just sit back and God will use us to bring people to him?
We don't really need to make afford to go out and preach if it's Gods will he will do it.

Please tell me why shouldn’t you yield to your temptations because whatever you do is ordained that way?

 

[Reformationist]

I'm just wondering if we can just sit back and God will use us to bring people to him?
We don't really need to make afford to go out and preach if it's Gods will he will do it.

Please tell me why shouldn’t you yield to your temptations because whatever you do is ordained that way?

The answer to both of those questions is explained in the same way. God has commanded that we share the Gospel with the world. So, we do it. Could God have gathered His elect in some other way? Of course. Likewise, we are commanded to refrain from all unrighteousness. If our temptations are unrighteous we have an obligation to resist them. The idea that you seem to be suggesting is that of antinomianism. We do not advocate doing that which God has prohibited by His Law, i.e., His perceptive will, by appealing to the belief that doing so is according to His ordination, i.e., His decretive will.

God bless

 

[seekingpurity047]

Rom. 10:14-17

14But how are they to call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard?[c] And how are they to hear without someone preaching? 15And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!" 16But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?" 17So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

 

[Rolf Ernst]

Please tell me why shouldn’t you yield to your temptations because whatever you do is ordained that way?

Jesus came "to save His people from their sins" "This is the will of God, even your sanctification." "He that has this hope in Him purifiety himself even as He is pure." "Have no fellowship with the unfruitful works ol darkness, but rather, reprove them." "If we walk in the light we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus Christ, His Son, cleanses us from all sin." "Cleanses us from all sin."

As for sittin' on the porch in the spring breeze waitin' for 'em to come along, check this out: "Go ye into all the world..."

 

[orthedoxy]

Is it Gods will for all Christians to preach or witness?
Is it Gods will for all Christians not to sin?

Rolph
If a Christian walk in the light then Christ Blood cleanse him what happens if that Christian stops walking in the light does Christ blood still forgive him?

 

[drstevej]

Is eternal life eternal?

 

[cygnusx1]

Is eternal life eternal?

only on Mondays and Fridays

 

[orthedoxy]

Is eternal life eternal?

Is this a quoestion for me if so it has nothing to do with what i asked.

 

[drstevej]

Is this a quoestion for me if so it has nothing to do with what i asked.

ya asked... If a Christian walk in the light then Christ Blood cleanse him what happens if that Christian stops walking in the light does Christ blood still forgive him?

My response "is eternal life eternal" is entirely germane. And it is Jesus' terminology to boot.

Reflect a bit. Ya might see the connection. Hope so.

 

[orthedoxy]

Does his blood cleanse him? If it's yes then how can you explain the verse?

I think eternal life is decides at the secound coming read matt 25:31-end so those who walk in the light will have eternal life in the end.

 

[drstevej]

I think eternal life is decides at the secound coming read matt 25:31-end so those who walk in the light will have eternal life in the end.

1 JOHN 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Better cogitate this a bit. Have is a PRESENT TENSE verb.

• Not might have
• Not conditionally have

It says if I believe (on the name of the Son of God)...

I can know...

that I HAVE eternal life.
​

Now isn't that good news?

 

[Zorobabel]

This is the sixth page, and I'm probably beating a dead horse. Nonetheless, I'll say a bit on the subject.

I think the question of evangelism within the Reformed context is derived from a basic misunderstanding of Reformed view of God's sovereignty. I, like many people here, used to be a dispensationalist. I grew up in a community where Calvinists were seen as "the weird people down the street." I had to deal with this question many times from my family and others as I eventually began to study the scriptures on my own.

The first thing I think of is the fact that I've never met a Reformed person that would say, "We shouldn't evangelize. God will save everyone He wants to save." To me, this reveals that the entire question has no merit in reality, but is rather an argument that some believe they can use against the concept of God's sovereignty. To Calvinists they rightly know it is their duty as commanded by God to spread the Gospel.

The 'interview' by John Piper on page three is really very clear in describing the entire concept. To say that a person's evangelistic spirit would be stifled by believing in God's providence is based on the concept that the human is still doing the work. The human is the one deciding whether or not to evangelize. The human is the one deciding to pray or not. If the human doesn't have the right spirit of evangelism then the job isn't going to get done. Thus, people shouldn't be Calvinists because if they were evangelism would be impacted.

Obviously, all these ideas are human-centered and based on the concept that in the end, beyond all this silly theological discussion, humans are the ones really making the decisions. They aren't. The Holy Scriptures reveal repeatedly in the lives of the Ancients that God is the One doing the calling, that God is executing His perfectly right and just will. I am always reminded of the passage from Habakkuk; chapter 1, verse 5:

Look among the nations! Observe!
Be astonished! Wonder!
Because I am doing something in your days--
You would not believe if you were told.

These are the words of God, not the prophet. Who is doing the work?

 

[swilson4000]

As a Reformist, or Predestinationist (I don't use the term Calvanist, because I don't think highly of him), I witness for one simple reason: The Lord whom I serve and have died to, for whatever reason, and decided that the elect will be saved through the preaching of the elect who have already recognized Christ. I don't question what my Lord tells me to do, I just do it. The Lord wants His vineyard worked on by those who came from his vineyard - for whatever reason.

 

[reformedfan]

"Biblical Christian" is a better term than Calvinist, since some *cough* think we worship John Calvin when we call ourself Calvinists.

 

[seekingpurity047]

Yes... as Spurgeon put it, Calvinism is but a logo... Calvinism is the gospel

Randy

 

[orthedoxy]

Better cogitate this a bit. Have is a PRESENT TENSE verb.

• Not might have
• Not conditionally have

It says if I believe (on the name of the Son of God)...

I can know...

that I HAVE eternal life.
​

Now isn't that good news?

We have eternal light if we walk in the light. because Jesus will give it to us at the secound coming read matt 25:46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
1 Timothy 6:12
Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called when you made your good confession in the presence of many witnesses.
How can we hold on to eternal from your view?
This was not my question.
I was asking
1. Does God want every Christian to witness?
2. When we are too lazy to witness is that because God ordained us that way?
3. When the bible says “if we walk in the light” doesn’t that mean God gives the light but not irresistibly?