Calvary Chapel

[ByTheSpirit]

Ha small world, I work on Fort Bliss! I imagine you guys have some experience of the churches here when? I'm guessing not the CC here though.

oh wow! haha that's cool! My wife and I were floating around the idea of moving back to El Paso honestly, but I don't think it's going to work out. We attended a Baptist church for a bit on Hercules Ave there next to base and then mainly went with Abundant Living Faith Center. Although now I wish I'd have tried Tom Brown's ministry just for the say hey of it. Yes, I don't have much experience with churches there. Of the 6 years I served there, honestly probably about 6 months worth of church going happened, so not a big sample size for me to give you. How's the weather? Hot from what I hear

 

[FerventDisciple]

Can someone explain to me what arminianism and pelagianism and that stuff that is so complicated to say and type I'm having trouble thinking straight means please?

The main difference is the view of depravity. Arminianism affirms total depravity (though slightly different to Calvinism) and that apart from grace and drawing of God no one can come to Him (John 6:44). But unlike Calvinism, Arminianism affirms God is drawing all (John 12:32) and that this drawing can be accepted or resisted (Acts 7:51).

Semi-Pelagianism and Pelagianism deny all depravity and that man got through the fall unscathed and can choose God through their own goodness, no need for grace.

 

[FerventDisciple]

oh wow! haha that's cool! My wife and I were floating around the idea of moving back to El Paso honestly, but I don't think it's going to work out. We attended a Baptist church for a bit on Hercules Ave there next to base and then mainly went with Abundant Living Faith Center. Although now I wish I'd have tried Tom Brown's ministry just for the say hey of it. Yes, I don't have much experience with churches there. Of the 6 years I served there, honestly probably about 6 months worth of church going happened, so not a big sample size for me to give you. How's the weather? Hot from what I hear

Is Abundant basically a WOF church? That's what I've heard, I know other churches criticize it a lot. The wife of the Pastor there recently died. Tom Brown? Can't say I know who that is or the ministry?

Heh, yes very hot, it's going to be 97f this Sunday. Though I'll be leaving to England for a month in June so I'll get a break from the heat!

Leaving for Fort Bliss right now, so I'll check this thread later.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Yes, ALFC is WoF and probably one of those mega churches that give other mega churches a bad rep honestly. It's unfortunate though... Yeah I would say look into Tom Brown if for no other reason than to just broaden your horizons a bit... Here's his website:

Tom Brown Ministries

 

[createdtoworship]

What do you think of Calvary Chapel? I always thought they were basically Baptist and cessationist. I recently came across a response by CC to the Strange Fire conference, I had no idea they are continuationist. Are they a fairly reliable organization or should they be avoided?

I warn you, only attend if you like 1 hour sermons and teaching expositorily through the Bible.

They are some of the most talented preachers to date. It takes quite a bit of courage to teach verse by verse through chronicles and come out on top.

the late Chuck smith teachings are all available online here,

Pastor Chuck Smith - Through The Bible C2000 Series

he founded the movement that universally and globally teaches cover to cover: the Bible. And founded a global exaple of expository preaching.

amazing really.

 

[FerventDisciple]

Yes, ALFC is WoF and probably one of those mega churches that give other mega churches a bad rep honestly. It's unfortunate though... Yeah I would say look into Tom Brown if for no other reason than to just broaden your horizons a bit... Here's his website:

Tom Brown Ministries

Interesting, will look into this further.

 

[FerventDisciple]

I warn you, only attend if you like 1 hour sermons and teaching expositorily through the Bible.

They are some of the most talented preachers to date. It takes quite a bit of courage to teach verse by verse through chronicles and come out on top.

the late Chuck smith teachings are all available online here,

Pastor Chuck Smith - Through The Bible C2000 Series

he founded the movement that universally and globally teaches cover to cover: the Bible. And founded a global exaple of expository preaching.

amazing really.

That's shorter than the sermons I currently hear

 

[NorrinRadd]

I used to like Calvary Chapel a lot 'til they went nuts and went so far as to make the "no female pastors" thing a part of their SoF. It's sad if they believe that, but pathetic to make it a matter of such importance.

As far as what they believe apart from that...

The 1994 12-page booklet What Calvary Chapel Teaches by Larry Taylor includes the following:

-- CC is firmly Pre-Mil, Pre-Trib in eschatology.

-- CC rejects the "L" and "I" in the Calvinist TULIP, while Chuck Smith's 2001 book The Calvary Chapel Distinctives suggests they also reject the "P," but without going as far as some Wesleyans; they could be loosely viewed as somewhat like Lutherans in that sense.

-- CC rejects "Positive Confession." In that, they agree with the Assemblies of God as per their 1980 Position Paper.

-- CC rejects the idea that believers can be demon-possessed; in that, they agree with the stance of the AG, as per their 1972 Position Paper.

-- CC rejects the idea that "prophecy" can ever supersede or even equal Scripture.

-- CC rejects the idea that there are contemporary prophets and apostles of the same nature as those in the NT; per their 2001 Position Paper, the AG seems to share that view.

-- CC prefers their primary meetings focus on worship and teaching. Praying in tongues is permitted if very quiet. "After-glow" sessions and "believers' meetings" are opportunities for exercise of "spiritual gifts."


Other than those specifics, their beliefs are rather generic Evangelical.


Chuck Smith's 1992 book Charisma vs. Charismania elaborates on their views regarding the presence and empowering of the Spirit. He advocates being filled with the Spirit and praying in tongues, but takes the view (which I share) that, Scripturally, "speaking in tongues" is always directed from us TO God, and never brings a "message" FROM God.

 

[createdtoworship]

I used to like Calvary Chapel a lot 'til they went nuts and went so far as to make the "no female pastors" thing a part of their SoF. It's sad if they believe that, but pathetic to make it a matter of such importance.

As far as what they believe apart from that...

The 1994 12-page booklet What Calvary Chapel Teaches by Larry Taylor includes the following:

-- CC is firmly Pre-Mil, Pre-Trib in eschatology.

-- CC rejects the "L" and "I" in the Calvinist TULIP, while Chuck Smith's 2001 book The Calvary Chapel Distinctives suggests they also reject the "P," but without going as far as some Wesleyans; they could be loosely viewed as somewhat like Lutherans in that sense.

-- CC rejects "Positive Confession." In that, they agree with the Assemblies of God as per their 1980 Position Paper.

-- CC rejects the idea that believers can be demon-possessed; in that, they agree with the stance of the AG, as per their 1972 Position Paper.

-- CC rejects the idea that "prophecy" can ever supersede or even equal Scripture.

-- CC rejects the idea that there are contemporary prophets and apostles of the same nature as those in the NT; per their 2001 Position Paper, the AG seems to share that view.

-- CC prefers their primary meetings focus on worship and teaching. Praying in tongues is permitted if very quiet. "After-glow" sessions and "believers' meetings" are opportunities for exercise of "spiritual gifts."


Other than those specifics, their beliefs are rather generic Evangelical.


Chuck Smith's 1992 book Charisma vs. Charismania elaborates on their views regarding the presence and empowering of the Spirit. He advocates being filled with the Spirit and praying in tongues, but takes the view (which I share) that, Scripturally, "speaking in tongues" is always directed from us TO God, and never brings a "message" FROM God.

I agree with them, I try not to adhere to dogmatic theology such as calvinism. too many scriptures on other side. not a perfect church but a fairly honorable one at least.

 

[createdtoworship]

That's shorter than the sermons I currently hear

yeah the whole service is an hour and a half. but I am not sure I could handle 2 hour exposition w/o a break.

 

[Clarinetlover]

My church is a CC and we talk about gifts and encourage people that have them to use them. But mine is a non denomination that is part of the Calvary Chapel group.

 

[createdtoworship]

My church is a CC and we talk about gifts and encourage people that have them to use them. But mine is a non denomination that is part of the Calvary Chapel group.

oh! very good! I love calvary.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

What do you think of Calvary Chapel? I always thought they were basically Baptist and cessationist. I recently came across a response by CC to the Strange Fire conference, I had no idea they are continuationist. Are they a fairly reliable organization or should they be avoided?

I consider them reliable. However, just like any other church, one in one town may vary greatly in another.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

I consider them reliable. However, just like any other church, one in one town may vary greatly in another.

This is true and in large part a key for me to trying the one in Manhattan, KS when I move there end of next month.

 

[createdtoworship]

This is true and in large part a key for me to trying the one in Manhattan, KS when I move there end of next month.

with expository preaching they all seem to fall not far from the tree however, there are only so many views one can hold when teaching the whole Bible cover to cover.

 

[K2K]

In Southern California you find that Calvery Chapel is a major player as far as Christian churches go here. They are known for Bible teaching. I have been to them, from what I believe was the first one in Santa Anna, CA, (a long time ago) and to several more recently. They really get into teaching the Bible. Where as most churches might use a small handful of verses for their Sunday message, Calvery teaches their pastors to tie in a armful of verses.

They are not against people having the gifts, but it seems that they mostly look down in any display of them at their services. This does tend to vary a little bit from church to church, but not much. It's a good church to go to if you want to study the Bible alot, but not so good to really get hooked up with the Spirit or the power of the Kingdom; at least that is what I saw.

The Lord had me go to one for a few months in which they had teaching services six days a week, but no prayer was rarely offered for the people at that one, and the prayer offered was usually done from the podium to people that raised their hands for a specific type of prayer.

Once they called a 'yearly prayer' meeting, and while every service tended to have fifty people, only 2 people were there when the prayer time was supposed to begin. About a dozen of the key members showed up 15 to 20 minutes lates and the pastor showed up an hour late after all prayer was done. Note: that church had lots of teachers and organizers of events and ministries, but nobody was organizing prayer meeting of ministries of any type.

They did once have a service in which they tried something new, which involved actually seeking words from the Lord and the laying on of hands for people to recieve the gift of tongues, but at least one elder and teacher felt that no speaking in tongue should be permitted and that time unless there was someone to interprete, though they were praying for people to recieve the gift. I pointed out that it is written that the one who interpretes should pray for the interpretation, and though he was the one who taught the class on the gifts, he was certain that verse was not in the Bible. When I showed him the verse proving it, he seemed indignate wondering what bible I got that out of. So to my thinking there was a serious misunderstanding of the gift and what the bible says about them, though they were really into teaching the bible.

1 Cor 14:13 Therefore let the one who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret.

Anyway, I asked the Lord if I could go back to a church that was like a house of prayer, and got the ok. But don't get me wrong, Calvery Chapel is place where you can get lots of teachings from the Bible with lots of verses to back it up, and was probably why the Lord took me their for a season.

Still, I like a lot more prayer where I go, and I like to feel the presence of the Lord in the service I am at, and I like to see the Lord and the Kingdom move with power which was not very evident.

I think they might be compared to the church at Philadephia in that they have only a little power but don't deny His name and keep His word -

Rev 3:8 I know you deeds. Behold, I have put before you an open door which no one can shut, because you have a little power, and have kept My word, and have not denied my name.

So all things considered, they are not a bad Christian church but they lack the power, seemingly because they don't enter into the heaveniless like they should.