Calling Good People Racist

[MikeK]

Mikek
Those countries are where they are today because we beat them. Losing a war to the United States is the best thing that can happen to a country. That's why I don't want the US involved in any more wars. If we accidently beat someone we'd have to turn them into a world powerhouse.

Lol! Iraq is such a world powerhouse!

 

[section9+1]

That war isn't over yet. I hope we let them do most of the fighting themselves. Then they can clean up after themselves and take all the credit for it.

 

[MikeK]

That war isn't over yet.

The war ended when Sadam Hussein was ousted and the Ba'athist government was overthrown. Iraq was defeated by the United States. Civil wars followed, but you cannot argued that we did not defeat Iraq in a war, nor can you state that they are a major world power because of it.

Grenada and Haiti are impressive world powers thanks to our defeating them in splendid little wars as well, right?

 

[section9+1]

Nothing can be done in Iraq until the fighting stops and the dust settles-if that eve happens. Then maybe we'll rebuild them and fix all their oil wells and build up their military and make them strong. Of course with Trump in charge, maybe not. Those other little countries are almost nothing. There's nothing there, but I don't think they've suffered because of us. We seem to be helping Haiti all the time. We are a very benevolent country.

 

[section9+1]

Nothing can be done in Iraq until the fighting stops and the dust settles-if that ever happens. Then maybe we'll rebuild them and fix all their oil wells and build up their military and make them strong. Of course with Trump in charge, maybe not. Those other little countries are almost nothing. There's nothing there, but I don't think they've suffered because of us. We seem to be helping Haiti all the time. We are a very benevolent country.

 

[Papias]

The Church says that homosexual sex is a violation of natural law, which means that is is not natural.

Newsflash: the Catholic doctrine of "Natural Law" is not the same as whether or not something is "natural". As pointed out before, there are all kinds of things that are "natural", and traditional, monogamous marriage is quite rare in the natural kingdom. Other things are much more common, like some types of fungi, which have over a dozen different genders.

Here's a pretty funny blog post (by a scientist) about it. Here's an excerpt and link:

.....“Enough, enough,” grumbled Lion. The topic for today is humans – or Homo sapiens – and their-” he paused to sneer distastefully- “unnatural “heterosexual monogamy” business.”

“Oh come on,” whined Albatross, “are we still going on about that? There are plenty of examples of monogamy across the animal kingdom. 90% of birds are monogamous!”

Bear whispered under his breath, “Only 3% of mammals.”

Albatross huffed. “You mammalists! Really.”

“Oh come on, Albatross,” said Lion. “We all know that’s not entirely true. Only a tiny fraction of birds are actually sexually monogamous. You guys just can’t help getting some on the side. And wasn’t there even a new study that lesbian child rearing pairs are highly prevalent in Albatross?”

“…Maybe,” Albatross blushed, sinking back into the crowd.

“Anyway,” continued Lion, “it has become apparent to the Association that this human deviancy is out of control. It’s simply not natural compared to the mating habits of the rest of the animal kingdom. Well-” .....​

Natural Sexuality | The Jenome

Are you Catholic? If so, perhaps you need to inform yourself of the Catholic teaching and conform yourself to it.

Here is the Church teaching on homosexual sex:

This is the official Church teaching, which trumps your opinion and closes the debate.

Of course it is. I never disputed Catholic doctrine. I simply pointed out that saying something is "natural" says nothing about Catholic doctrine, and that saying homosexuality is "unnatural" doesn't match reality. Some of the world's top scientists are Catholic, and our Catholic church is really pretty good now (compared to many protestant churches) when it comes to science.

In our Holy Church-

Papias

 

[BroIgnatius]

Newsflash: the Catholic doctrine of "Natural Law" is not the same as whether or not something is "natural". As pointed out before, there are all kinds of things that are "natural", and traditional, monogamous marriage is quite rare in the natural kingdom. Other things are much more common, like some types of fungi, which have over a dozen different genders.

The Dictionary definition is that Natural Law "is a body of law or a specific principle held to be derived from nature and binding upon human society in the absence of or in addition to positive law."

Newsflash: it does not matter what animals do or do not do. Their behavior is not binding on human behavior. But, Natural Law is informed by nature, but as it applies to mankind.

Another Newsflash: to repeat, because a behavior is practiced, by animals or humans, does not make it natural. Both animals and human sometimes behave in aberrational ways. Despite a statement you made a while back, cannibalism is not natural. It is not our nature to eat our own. This is an aberration of our nature.

The idea of "traditional, monogamous marriage is quite rare in the natural kingdom" is ridicules. "Traditional", "Marriage"? There is no such thing in the animal kingdom. Only human being have marriage.

"saying homosexuality is "unnatural" doesn't match reality". LOL, homosexuality, as we think of it, is not natural as it serves no purpose toward evolution and the propagation of the species.

As for animals, "Within most species, homosexual sex has been documented only sporadically, and there appear to be few cases of individual animals who engage in it exclusively." The writer also remarks, "Many pointed out that animals also rape or eat their young; was America going to tolerate that too, just because it’s “natural”? and "many of these behaviors appear to have their own causes and consequences — their own evolutionary meanings, so to speak." and "Homosexual activity is often observed in animal populations with a shortage of one sex — in the wild but more frequently at zoos." Studies like these indicate that homosexual behavior, not that an animal is homosexual, does serve a purpose that is an adjunct to the natural order of evolution.

You can read the entire article, Can Animals be Gay? by Jon Mooallem, in the New York Times Magazine.

But, none of this matters. Homosexual sex is not natural for human beings. It is a disorder. The CCC states, "homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that 'homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.' They are contrary to the natural law. ..this inclination... is objectively disordered..."

The Catechism goes on:
2360 Sexuality is ordered to the conjugal love of man and woman. In marriage the physical intimacy of the spouses becomes a sign and pledge of spiritual communion.

For human beings, we do not imitate animals. We are human beings made in the image of God. It is not natural for us as human beings to conduct homosexual sex. Homosexual "marriage" does not exist and cannot exist. It is gravely disordered for mankind. That is all that counts and the only valid argument.

The nonsense of this particular discussion is indicative of a nuanced similarity to the point of the video originally posted.

I appreciate this debate in that it gives me a beautiful example of flippant dismissals, mocking, and other "Tactics of Obfuscation" that is useful for a book I have been writing on that subject. I intend to use real-life examples of the various obfuscating methods all of us use from time to time, and some of us use nearly all the time.

With that, this debate is truly ended. All that can be said has been said. Thus, there is no point to go on. I will give some time for you to read this and then you go on ignore.

 

[Papias]

The Dictionary definition is that Natural Law "is a body of law or a specific principle held to be derived from nature and binding upon human society in the absence of or in addition to positive law."
...... The CCC states, "homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that 'homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.' They are contrary to the natural law. ..this inclination... is objectively disordered..."

The Catechism goes on:
2360 Sexuality is ordered to the conjugal love of man and woman. In marriage the physical intimacy of the spouses becomes a sign and pledge of spiritual communion.

Why are you repeating the Catholic doctrine, which we agree on? I've pointed out several times that I'm not talking about the Catholic doctrine of natural law. You did read that, right?

You still don't seem to understand that the Catholic doctrine of "Natural Law" is not the same as whether or not something is "natural".

Newsflash: it does not matter what animals do or do not do. Their behavior is not binding on human behavior. But, Natural Law is informed by nature, but as it applies to mankind.

Again, I'm not talking about the Catholic doctrine of Natural Law, which we agree on. I'm pointing out that you were wrong to say that homosexuality is not natural.

Another Newsflash: to repeat, because a behavior is practiced, by animals or humans, does not make it natural. Both animals and human sometimes behave in aberrational ways. Despite a statement you made a while back, cannibalism is not natural. It is not our nature to eat our own. This is an aberration of our nature.

Simply false. The behavior of animals does indeed show what is natural. That's the definition of the word "natural" - and yet another reason why Catholic doctrine is not the same as "natural".

Here's the dictionary definition.

natural

[nach-er-uh l, nach-ruh l]

• Synonyms
• Examples
• Word Origin

See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
adjective
1.
existing in or formed by nature (opposed to artificial ):
a natural bridge.
2.
based on the state of things in nature; constituted by nature:
Growth is a natural process.
3.
of or relating to nature or the universe:
natural beauty.​

Both the first and second definitions show that something practiced by animals in nature is, by definition, natural. I'm sorry you are unhappy that homosexuality is natural, but that's life.

In Christ-

Papias

 

[section9+1]

I suppose one could argue that everything is natural. The universe is a natural place and whatever takes place in it is a natural event because it is part of the universe. But it's a meaningless statement because it's like saying every thing that's red is red. Some things are just more popular and common than others. However being natural has nothing to do with the rightness of something. Natural is not the same word as good. In an evil world, natural and evil often go hand in hand. And I don't give any care to what might be natural. Copy the good. The natural is often the fastest way to hell.

 

[BroIgnatius]

I suppose one could argue that everything is natural. The universe is a natural place and whatever takes place in it is a natural event because it is part of the universe. But it's a meaningless statement because it's like saying every thing that's red is red. Some things are just more popular and common than others. However being natural has nothing to do with the rightness of something. Natural is not the same word as good. In an evil world, natural and evil often go hand in hand. And I don't give any care to what might be natural. Copy the good. The natural is often the fastest way to hell.

Agree. And homosexual, meaning homosexual orientation, is not natural.

Some animals kill and eat their young; others kill their mates after sex; in the vast majority of cases, animals don’t form lifelong relationships; and many animals are wild and dangerous by nature.

When a lion kills a zebra in cold blood, it’s dinner. When a human being kills another human being in cold blood, it’s murder.

So, what is gained by appealing to the animal world?

As famously noted by Dr. Dean Hamer, a gay scientist, “Pigs don’t date, ducks don’t frequent stripper bars, and horses don’t get married.”

In other words, animals are not humans, and gays gain nothing by appealing to the animal world, unless you want to say that when a male dog grabs hold of your leg and starts doing his thing on you, he is acting “gay.” Does anyone really want to make that argument?

But is it true that there are hundreds if not thousands of examples of “gay animals” or same-sex attractions and acts among them?

Actually, there are numerous examples of same-sex behavior in the animal world, but there appear to be a wide variety of explanations for these behaviors, including acts of dominance (that have nothing to do with the animal’s “sexual orientation” or even sexual acts themselves) and acts of sexual release, like the dog mounting your leg, which, again, is unrelated to the animal’s “sexual orientation.”

Homosexual scientist Simon LeVay wrote, “Although homosexual behavior is very common in the animal world, it seems to be very uncommon that individual animals have a long-lasting predisposition to engage in such behavior to the exclusion of heterosexual activities. Thus, a homosexual orientation, if one can speak of such thing in animals, seems to be a rarity.”

Read more at Claim: Homosexuality exists in nature