Caffiene

[psychedelicist]

I would like to know what most christian's take on caffiene is. Most christians I know see mind altering substances like alcohol and cannabis as bad but they do not seem to realize that caffiene is one as well. Why is drinking a beer immoral but a mountain dew isn't? You're ingesting drugs either way.

Other mind altering 'drugs' you may not know you use:

Chocolate contains theobromine and caffiene, both stimulants, and even small quantities of anandimide, an endogenous cannibinoid
Benadryl, Robitussin, Advil, most OTCs for that matter
Nutmeg contains mtristicin, a hallucinogen and depressant
Common Sage contains thujone. Often you can find Sage as an ingredient in tooth whiteners/toothpastes. Thujone is a hallucinogen.

Most of these contain far too small of quantities of drugs to affect how you conciously think, but they are psychoactive nonetheless. Where is the line drawn?

 

[cobaltburrito]

<---agrees with above post

Anything that causes happiness, sadness, or any emotion is mind-altering.
If kittens make you feel warm and fuzzy are they bad as well?

 

[Velo Princesse]

While we're at it... cheese has the same effect on the brain as heroine, although to a lesser degree.

 

[psychedelicist]

While we're at it... cheese has the same effect on the brain as heroine, although to a lesser degree.

Lol. Not quite. But it does contain the amino acid L-tryptophan which can increase serotonin levels. So it's evil anyways.

 

[Velo Princesse]

I thought serotonin production is an effect of heroine. oops. LOL

 

[Cleany]

its true about caffiene, but because everyone does it and its abundant its ok. obviously the effects arent the same as other things. i accidentally gave up caffiene due to an illness, i tell you its a lot easier to get up in the morning!

also i think lots of old people must be addicted to caffiene, otherwise why would they insist on drinking tea and coffee even when its 90 degrees outside or it causes them to go to the toilet every 5 minutes even though some of them are incontinent.

lol

 

[BlueRose]

For some reason, my immediate family isn't affected by caffiene. Well, at least not caffiene via Mt. Dew and other pops. It seems to affect us as much as drinking water does. *shrug*

Oh, drinking alcohol is not immoral. Christians see getting drunk as immoral. Having a beer is fine.

 

[""]

Caffeine is probably one of the only psychoactive agents with an FDA approval, that you can get without a prescription. You'll find references to withdrawal from caffeine in the DSM IV too, as well as caffeine dependence, so it's not as if the medical community isn't fully aware. There are real dangers associated with caffeine and caffeine withdrawal. We're talking about mental illness, including depression, and also physical illness (ie: heart attacks). The problem is, that it's a money maker, and more importantly, it's a pacifier. So are cigs but that's another topic altogether.

Knowing all of these things should keep any intellectual person away from it right? I'll get back to you on that right after I finish paying for my starbucks.

 

[""]

Oh btw, it's EI, not IE, just for future reference.

 

[psychedelicist]

I was more talking about the moral implications. Do you believe getting high to be immoral? Most christians would say yes. Do you believe using caffeine is immoral? Most would say no. I'm just trying to understand why this is.

 

[""]

Well, let me ask you. If ingesting some substance, whether a higher authority says it's safe or not, can cause you to have heart problems (or cognitive problems), is it wrong to use it? If after using it for a time, you decide to stop using it, and in ceasing to use it, you develop withdrawal symptoms that affect mental health, is it immoral to take it? Is it immoral to take something, whether somebody else says you can or not, if you know it has the potential to harm you?

If you can answer yes, or even no, to either of those questions, then I guess you don't need God to tell you. God tells us not to do things that will harm our body (our bodies are referred to as a temple which houses our spirit). Should He have had to be more precise, listing detailed descriptions of what is and is not allowed, and what substances are allowed in a small quantity, while listing measurements calculated for height and weight that one shouldn't go over? Orrr..... perhaps He gave us the intelligence to figure those things out?

 

[psychedelicist]

Well, let me ask you. If ingesting some substance, whether a higher authority says it's safe or not, can cause you to have heart problems (or cognitive problems), is it wrong to use it? If after using it for a time, you decide to stop using it, and in ceasing to use it, you develop withdrawal symptoms that affect mental health, is it immoral to take it? Is it immoral to take something, whether somebody else says you can or not, if you know it has the potential to harm you?

If you can answer yes, or even no, to either of those questions, then I guess you don't need God to tell you. God tells us not to do things that will harm our body (our bodies are referred to as a temple which houses our spirit). Should He have had to be more precise, listing detailed descriptions of what is and is not allowed, and what substances are allowed in a small quantity, while listing measurements calculated for height and weight that one shouldn't go over? Orrr..... perhaps He gave us the intelligence to figure those things out?

That makes sense, but of course you must take into account stupid people. Apparently he didn't give them enough intelligence.

 

[""]

As long as we're not discussing people with disabilities, which I would not take part in, I will toss in my two cents:

God didn't make stupid people stupid. Their parents did.

 

[Cleany]

I was more talking about the moral implications. Do you believe getting high to be immoral? Most christians would say yes. Do you believe using caffeine is immoral? Most would say no. I'm just trying to understand why this is.

i think the morality is more about the addiction and bad affects of the high. im sure most people are addicted to caffiene, but who is ever going to run out? anyway surely the affects arent as severe as other, more dangerous drugs.

 

[psychedelicist]

i think the morality is more about the addiction and bad affects of the high. im sure most people are addicted to caffiene, but who is ever going to run out? anyway surely the affects arent as severe as other, more dangerous drugs.

So as long as you can get enough of the drug it's ok? And severity has nothing to do with it.

I can only honestly understand 2 different viewpoints:

1. Drugs are not immoral
2. ALL drugs are immoral, no in betweens

Apparently there is a third but for the life of me, I can't see it as anything but hypocritical.

 

[Cleany]

So as long as you can get enough of the drug it's ok? And severity has nothing to do with it.

I can only honestly understand 2 different viewpoints:

1. Drugs are not immoral
2. ALL drugs are immoral, no in betweens

Apparently there is a third but for the life of me, I can't see it as anything but hypocritical.

i assume that you mean taking drugs because morals are about the actions of people, not chemical or organic substances. i really dont see how you can be so extreme here - drugs can save lives and kill. it is the abuse of drugs that is seen to be immoral - in fact most immoral acts involve the abuse of something, be it someone elses life, money, sex etc etc.

i dont think that god made anything "bad" or "immoral", perhaps god created the whole world good, and the perversion or abuse of the world and the poeple and things in it are what defines evil or immoral.

 

[Lokisdottir]

My caffeine tolerance is very low. A single cup of coffee makes me unpleasantly jittery. When I need a boost, a cup of tea does the trick nicely. Long live tea! (Especially Earl Grey!)

I'm not a Christian, but as to the question of why a caffeine buzz is moral and a marijuana high isn't, I see no difference at all. Surely marijuana has the potential to be abused, but no more than any other drug, and probably far less than alcohol. I see no reason why it shouldn't be legalized, as long as certain restrictions are placed on it (no smoking under a certain age, don't smoke and drive, don't smoke in public places, et cetera). It would save the government a lot of money and free up space in our overcrowded prisons.

 

[psychedelicist]

i assume that you mean taking drugs because morals are about the actions of people, not chemical or organic substances. i really dont see how you can be so extreme here - drugs can save lives and kill. it is the abuse of drugs that is seen to be immoral - in fact most immoral acts involve the abuse of something, be it someone elses life, money, sex etc etc.

Usually they only save lives when used medicinally. I mean recreational use. Ever christian I know would think it very immoral to get stoned but chug 2-3 coffees in the morning just to get enough energy to go to work. I sense a bit of hypocrasy in this.

 

[e=mv^2]

Stating that ingesting an outside substance is a sin is lagalism.

Christ was clear on this topic.

" 14 And when he had called all the people unto him, he said unto them, "Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand: " 15 "There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man. " 16 "If any man have ears to hear, let him hear. " 17 And when he was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable. 18 And he saith unto them, "Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him; " 19 "Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats? " 20 And he said, "That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. " 21 "For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, " 22 "Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: " 23 "All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

Nothing from without can defile you. These are the words of Christ.

Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;

 

[Cleany]

Usually they only save lives when used medicinally. I mean recreational use. Ever christian I know would think it very immoral to get stoned but chug 2-3 coffees in the morning just to get enough energy to go to work. I sense a bit of hypocrasy in this.

what do christians you know think about alcahol? i dont think any christians i know would call this a "sin" although most of them dont really drink.