C. Spurgeon smoked cigars : was it sin ?

[heygeno]

What is our responsibility as Christians , when it comes to telling new Believers about smoking ?

Is is a sin ?

Spurgeon said " if you can show me in the Bible where it says I shouldn't ---then I will stop "

I found this debate on the Spurgeon website. Even if you don't have an opinion about this,I believe it is a must read for anyone who thinks that they have a definite answer about ANYTHING .

Geno

http://www.spurgeon.org/misc/cigars.htm

 

[KelsayDL]

Smoking is a destructive lifestyle for the vast majority of people who take on the nasty habit for a long period of time.

If Spurgeon felt that destroying his body was his business and not a bad example to the Lords "sheep", well, that is between him and the Lord.

You won't find anything in the Bible condemning smoking. Not that it matters as the church of today obeys Gods teachings when they see fit.

Even if it was in the bible, people would say well christ freed us of the law so I'll smoke all I want.

Yes, go ahead, and receive the penalty therof.

But anyways, as 1John says, anyone who trangresses the law sins, for sin is the transgression of the law.

Man does not define what is sin, God has already done so.

 

[heygeno]

...... 12You may say, "I am allowed to do anything." But I reply, "Not everything is good for you." And even though "I am allowed to do anything,

"(((((((((( I must not become a slave to anything.))))))

13You say, "Food is for the stomach, and the stomach is for food." This is true, though someday God will do away with both of them. But our bodies were not made for sexual immorality. They were made for the Lord, and

the Lord cares about our bodies.===



Spurgeon said he could quit whenever he wanted (and DID for a year ?) but went back to it.

 

[redjosh]

i get annoyed at how you all want to lable everything as good or bad. its quite pathetic. you all get so worked up with legalism and what to do or not to do that you forget mans purpose - to fear and love God. who gives a toss if you smoke or get pierced or tattooed or drink or listen to loud music or wear rubbish...

Not that it matters as the church of today obeys Gods teachings when they see fit.

how's that? do you mean your church? or you personally?

faith through grace

 

[KelsayDL]

1Jo 3:4 - Show Context
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

It is not I who said it, but God, and Godly men who reinforced the word of our Lord.

The bible is clear on what is sin. Mans agreement or non agreeance is irrelevant.

who gives a toss if you smoke or get pierced or tattooed or drink or listen to loud music or wear rubbish...

Well, for one God does. Is that all sin? As I said earlier smoking is a destructive lifestyle, God does not want us to destroy our bodies. But personally, I do not believe it is sin. Is drinking a sin? Much easier to make a case that it may be there. I drink, wine on occasions. But I also know the bible is very clear in it's position on drunkards.Tattoos? What are they for? Nothing moe than vanity and to feed the flesh IMO. Not to mention it's quite easy to make a biblical case against the marking of the body. I've had several removed myself. They tend to come back and haunt you later in life. Loud music? While I find it quite annoying and rude. One would be hard pressed showing where the bible calls it sin.

how's that? do you mean your church? or you personally?

Instead of pulling this thread completely off topic, why don't you join us in an existing thread that touches on the matter?;
http://www.christianforums.com/t44519

Shalom.

 

[lookinguptoo]

Smoking is not a sin. However, now that we have knowledge that Spurgeon did not have, we can conclude it is very foolish and wasteful to smoke. With the knowledge we now have of how it hurts the body, I don't think God would want us to smoke, but I don't think smoking is one of the things that nailed Jesus to the cross. Building a skyscraper is probably more life risking than smoking, but it is not a sin. Maybe God did not want us making skyscrapers, I don't know, but the job itself is not a sin. In Asia, there is not a stigma on smoking like in America. This strong reaction to smoking is cultural not Biblical.

 

[redjosh]

KelsayDL, sorry about my post. rereading it now I was not impressed at the time and probably offensive.

we have been freed from the law through grace.
i drink. i smoke. i would like to get tattooed (but prob won't). i have been pierced. i listen to loud rock music. i wear what i want. does any of this matter? no. i have faith in the almighty God. what about sin? of my list none are sinful. however some can lead to sin... drinking can lead to drunkeness (and drunkards will not inherit the kingdom of God, Galations 5:21).
so you wanna stay on topic? smoking... is harmful and is addictive.
smoking is not sinful.
walking on the motorway can be harmful and watching tv can be addictive.

But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter. Romans 7:6

life is eteranal freedom through grace
death is bondage to sin through the law

 

[heygeno]

If you want to debate about what you believe is sin--- What do you do with the verses I posted earlier ?

12You may say, "I am allowed to do anything." But I reply, "Not everything is good for you." And even though "I am allowed to do anything,
"(((((((((( I must not become a slave to anything.))))))
13You say, "Food is for the stomach, and the stomach is for food." This is true, though someday God will do away with both of them. But our bodies were not made for sexual immorality. They were made for the Lord, and
the Lord cares about our bodies.===

Everyone must take into consideration IF WHAT THEY DO IS OFFENDING THEIR BROTHER OR A YOUNG CHRISTIAN. Paul was willing to give up meat if it caused his brother to stumble.

 

[ZiSunka]

I think it's unhealthy, which they didn't know in Spurgeon's time, but it isn't a sin strictly forbidden by the Bible. The Chrisitan faith is a great thing, because whatever isn't forbidden is permissible, including smoking, though it isn't healthy.

 

[heygeno]

you say it is unhealthy to smoke...... Didn't you read the last part of the above verse ?

THE LORD CARES ABOUT OUR BODIES !

wHICH REMINDS ME OF THE VERSE THAT SAYS "KNOWING WHAT IS RIGHT AND NOT DOING IT --IS SIN"

 

[KelsayDL]

we have been freed from the law through grace.

redjosh,

I don't know that I believe that to be wholly accurate. In fact I don't.

For one, without the law, how can there be grace? Grace from what exactly if there is no law?

What I can agree with you is that we have been spared the penalty of transgressing the law, which was often death. IE the "curse" of the law.

I came to faith in Jesus in a non-denominational christian fellowship, over 20 years ago.

The past year, I've started to question some teachings of the majority of the "church". Because they were flat out in contradiction to what God had said.

Lets take the issue of homosexuality for an example, God calls it an abomination. 99.9% of christianity respond with a resounding AMEN!

Yet when we take the dietary laws God established, in which he called many creatures an abomination to eat, we teach that the "law" is done away with and call it dinner.

WHy is one still an abomination, and the other is now somehow food?

This teaching is in flat out contradiction to what Yeshua himself said in;

Matthew 5:17-20 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
The general christian belief is that when he said fulfill, he basically meant abolish contrary to his previous sentence!

I look around and I still see the heavens and the earth, at least that which is allowed for us to see. I notice that we are not currently residing in the Messianic kingdom spoken of in Isaiah and other "old" testament books. So, basically all is not fulfilled.

Please read deuteronomy chapter 13 and tell me who Yeshua would be if he came to do away with or change the teachings of God.

This teaching of "lawlessness" is insane. And it's starting to show it's effects on the international church scene with homosexuals running amok amongst church leadership. It's only going to get worse.

i would like to get tattooed (but prob won't). i have been pierced.

I would rethink if I were you. (I've been tattooed, they always come back to haunt you. Not to mention they are not for Gods people).

Leviticus 19:

28 Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD. 29 Do not prostitute F35 thy daughter, to cause her to be a harlot; lest the land fall to whoredom, and the land become full of wickedness.

Now...

We can agree that to prostitute ones daughter is sinful. For it is contrary to what God has said is good. Yet, this same God who said do not mark your bodies was winking when he said this?

Do I think because people of faith have tattoos or piercings they are going to hell? No. But I do believe it to be against the will of God for his people, and contrary to his teachings, just from reading his word.

We will have to agree to disagree. I'm starting to read the scriptures in a new light. If you would like to continue the discussion, please feel free to pm me, or perhaps start a dialogue in the messianic forum.

I don't wish to drag this thread any further off topic than I already have.

Peace!

 

[ZiSunka]

you say it is unhealthy to smoke...... Didn't you read the last part of the above verse ?

THE LORD CARES ABOUT OUR BODIES !

wHICH REMINDS ME OF THE VERSE THAT SAYS "KNOWING WHAT IS RIGHT AND NOT DOING IT --IS SIN"

Yes, but sins are just things that "feel" wrong, they are things spelled out in the Bible as sins. The laws of Moses, Leviticus and Deuteronomy spell out what is sinful and what is not. The NT contains a lot of info on sin, too. Smoking, overeating, not exercising, those are all unhealthy and "feel" wrong, but they are not specifically sins.

 

[angelmuzic]

Well here is my two cents on smoking........

I smoked for 14 years (started around age 11!!!)... personally I became convicted that I was letting a cigarette control me ......I do believe God showed me it. But to some....they can light up a cigarette...smoke it.....and not light another one up for months or years (true, only few are like this). For me......I would go crazy if I didn't have a cigarette every hour! Which it is nice to be free of it, very nice! I never thought I would be free of it, but I Thank God that I am! But I think it is up to an individual...if you feel guilty doing it, rethink what you are doing! But I do remember when I was a smoker and was told it was a sin cause it was harmful to my body, was told that by the same people I saw eatting fatty foods. We aren't perfect (not that we should rejoice that we aren't)....but like I said , think it is up to the individual...if you are convicted, don't ignore the conviction. Don't let a piece of paper filled with harmful toxins......rule you!

 

[cutekid 4 Jesus]

It is a sin,because unlike a bad diet and lack of exerxise which you might do unwittingly but you should still avoid cos your body is Gods temple smoking is a very needless thing you have purposelly chosen to do,it doesnt require nutritional knowledge or any active action not to do it.even if i eat cakes all day-which i dont!-it has SOME nutrition in it,even though its not a good idea and im not denying its unhealthy and it least its given my body fuel.Smoking is just all bad,its not feeding a natural appetite,its a false appetite caused by a drug which causes addiction which is the second limb of my argument-the vast majority of smokers are addicted to it,therefore its an idol in their life ie .they need to cut it out. We have been freed from the law but we must not use our freedom as an excuse to sin. You are still enslaved if you are smoking in my opinion,as a christian you need to walk like christ would walk and walk in victory.

 

[cutekid 4 Jesus]

well maybe not totally enslaved but still have a big hindrance in your life which you are under

 

[lilbobby86]

i get annoyed at how you all want to lable everything as good or bad. its quite pathetic. you all get so worked up with legalism and what to do or not to do that you forget mans purpose - to fear and love God. who gives a toss if you smoke or get pierced or tattooed or drink or listen to loud music or wear rubbish...
how's that? do you mean your church? or you personally?

faith through grace

I guess I'de have to agree. After all, we're all sinners anyway. However, this doesn't give us a liscence to sin. We should keep away from whatever is going to separate us from the Lord. God has consequences for our actions. Those who don't believe in His Son will surely go to Hell, but those who do believe, but still live in sin will just go to Heaven at an earlier time then they were sopposed to. Like if someone had premarital sex and kept living in that, that person may get AIDS and therefore would be sent home early. Same thing with smoking and lung cancer.

 

[Gene Sperling]

Let me suggest that those who make blanket statements about such things as smoking a cigar, using such verses as Romans 14:21 & 1 Cor 8:13 as a basis, are for the most part guilty of selective application of Scripture for your own purposes. Those churches that tout such narrow legalism think nothing of having donuts available for thier choir or Sunday schools. I am a diabetic and struggle with obesity yet these folks thing nothing of shoving these things in my face. Also, take a look at the line of the fat children of choir members who avail themselves of these donuts full of empty calories with absolutely no food value. They are setting themselves up for a lifetime of problems. I know. I am living proof. So you can't have it both ways. Consider Romans 14: 5 - 8 and remember, non-Christians don't care what you don't do. I have had the privlidge of leading many to Christ and not one of them has said to me "I notice that you don't (fill in the blank), because of that I want to be a Christian. The work of questionable things is that of the Holy Spirit, not legalistic inconsistant Christians.

 

[TheMainException]

If it hurts your body, it's wrong.

 

[mina]

Smoking won't send y ou to hell, but you'll sure smell like you've been there.

 

[Staind]

If it hurts your body, it's wrong.

So if I stub my toe, I've sinned?