C.S. Lewis: Sins of the flesh are the least bad of all sins?

Weasel7711 · Feb 6, 2007

drifter5 said:
Lewis' teachings go against The Bible's teachings, at least for the most part. There are other Christians who are unhappy with his teachings.

I understand you think that his teachings go agains the bible, I was just curious as to which ones exactly.

drifter5 · Feb 6, 2007

Weasel7711 said:
I understand you think that his teachings go agains the bible, I was just curious as to which ones exactly.

I could not answer this as i no longer have the books, and i can not remember. I am not happy to read books where even some of the teachings go against The Bible's teachings. The Bible is my authority and NOT Lewis' teachings.

Weasel7711 · Feb 6, 2007

drifter5 said:
I could not answer this as i no longer have the books, and i can not remember. I am not happy to read books where even some of the teachings go against The Bible's teachings. The Bible is my authority and NOT Lewis' teachings.

i just dont get it...

Johnnz · Feb 6, 2007

No other book has the status of the bible. Does that mean that Christian's musn't read any other book in case it contains something that is not 'biblical'?

John
NZ

bliz · Feb 6, 2007

drifter5 said:
I have read Lewis' biography, and i for one , refuse to read any of his books. It says in The Bible to be aware of wolves dressed as sheep.

drifter5 said:
It says in The Bible to be aware of false teachers and false teaching. I have read enough in the past on Lewis, and i have read some of his books . I choose now to no longer read these , and to warn others. It would be wrong of me not to.

drifter5 said:
Lewis' teachings go against The Bible's teachings, at least for the most part. There are other Christians who are unhappy with his teachings.

drifter5 said:
I have read Lewis' biography, and i for one , refuse to read any of his books. It says in The Bible to be aware of wolves dressed as sheep.

drifter5 said:
It says in The Bible to be aware of false teachers and false teaching. I have read enough in the past on Lewis, and i have read some of his books . I choose now to no longer read these , and to warn others. It would be wrong of me not to.

drifter5 said:
Lewis' teachings go against The Bible's teachings, at least for the most part. There are other Christians who are unhappy with his teachings.

Weasel7711 said:
I understand you think that his teachings go agains the bible, I was just curious as to which ones exactly.[/quote

Weasel7711 said:
]

drifter5 said:

I could not answer this as i no longer have the books, and i can not remember. I am not happy to read books where even some of the teachings go against The Bible's teachings. The Bible is my authority and NOT Lewis' teachings.

Click to expand...

So, Drifter, you want to warn us all the Lewis's teaching go against the Bible, but you cannot remember which of his teachings did so, or, apparently, which Biblical teachings Lewis disagreed with.

Hmmmmm. Since you cannot remember what Lewis had to say that was wrong, it seems a little irresponsible to declare that he is a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Weasel7711 · Feb 6, 2007

Just because christians are unhappy with his teachings doesnt make it unbiblical. The church has done horendous unbiblical things (Ex. the crusades, the inquisition, southern baptist persecution of african americans, the salem witch trials), therefore church thought and popular christian opinion should not be the basis for what we consider "of God". Everything should be tested by scripture in an intelligent manner.

Ephesians 4 said:
14As a result, we are (A)no longer to be children, (B)tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by (C)craftiness in (D)deceitful scheming; 15but speaking the truth (E)in love, we are to (F)grow up in all aspects into Him who is the (G)head, even Christ

Please present the accusations and examples of these false teachings with biblical support for your opinion next time, preferably in a new thread. I would be happy to have a discussion about it. Just let me know if you decide to make the thread.

drifter5 · Feb 7, 2007

I am afraid that my memory is not excellent. Lewis wrote many books. As i no longer have the books i can not refer to them . If you would post quotes from some of Lewis' books, i would be more than happy to discuss this. From what i recall , Lewis tends to be vague, and not give a clear gospel message. He seems to like speaking in riddles. After reading his biography, it was unclear as to whether he was really born -again.

BeLedbyHisSpirit · Feb 7, 2007

one of the greatest gifts from God to the 20th century, and 21st, too, while I am at it. His mind was far sharper than most geniuses, and he had the Holy Spirit guiding him.

MOST IMPORTANTLY, upon his conversion to Jesus, he spent every ounce of his energy and ability to serve and defend the Name of Jesus Christ!!!

Anybody who would speak evil of Lewis, is in for a bad time.

The reason some find him not to their liking is because people have strayed from the things that make for excellence, and they themselves like mediocrity, I would venture to say.

Regarding his point, that started this thread, most of the people on this thread have failed to read and grasp the content of what he wrote. Amazing... how people jump to conclusions without reading the material.

He said, that there are sins worse than fleshly sins. Not that some type of sins are ok. NO! But that there are some far more diabolical and people can easily be deceived into thinking that they are "ok" when in fact they are quite evil. He is drawing the readers attention to examine the fact that there are sins (and far worse sins at that) than simply avoiding the "obvious moral sins of the flesh".

It causes a person, who is sensitive, humble enough to examine possibilities, and in search of Truth, to see that there are sins that can be deeper and more diabolical.

Isn't this obvious already?

Ok... now... for all you legalistic pharisee types, I will post for you what you need to come to terms with. Do not start flaming me because I share the gospel of Jesus with you. Read:

Matt 10:14 "And whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake off the dust of your feet.
Matt 10:15 "Truly I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment, than for that city.

and

Matt 11:21 "Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles had occurred in Tyre and Sidon which occurred in you, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
Matt 11:22 "Nevertheless I say to you, it shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the day of judgment, than for you.
Matt 11:23 "And you, Capernaum, will not be exalted to heaven, will you? You shall descend to Hades; for if the miracles had occurred in Sodom which occurred in you, it would have remained to this day.
Matt 11:24 "Nevertheless I say to you that it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for you."

and

Luke 12:42 And the Lord said, "Who then is the faithful and sensible steward, whom his master will put in charge of his servants, to give them their rations at the proper time?
Luke 12:43 "Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes.
Luke 12:44 "Truly I say to you, that he will put him in charge of all his possessions.
Luke 12:45 "But if that slave says in his heart, 'My master will be a long time in coming,' and begins to beat the slaves, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk;
Luke 12:46 the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him, and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces, and assign him a place with the unbelievers.
Luke 12:47 "And that slave who knew his master's will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, shall receive many lashes,
Luke 12:48 but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. And from everyone who has been given much shall much be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more.

- - - - - -

Any and all will do well to read the entire library of C. S. Lewis. You would arrive at the conclusion of your readings, like the rest of us who read him continually - Thanking God for His gift and work to us through this man, Lewis.

Johnnz · Feb 7, 2007

drifter5 said:
From what i recall , Lewis tends to be vague, and not give a clear gospel message. He seems to like speaking in riddles. After reading his biography, it was unclear as to whether he was really born -again.

When I first read Mere Christainity, which also was the first Lewis book I had read, I had the same reaction. I was used to bible verse, comment, bible verse comment etc.

I returned to him a couple of years later. My thinking had advanced and I was becoming aware of many issues of life and faith that my church had never touched upon. Lewis was a voice of reason and sanity. The more I understood his wrtings the more I could see how deeply imbued with biblical principles his writings were.

The fruit of his life that still goes on through his writings in the many who become Christians, or deepen their faith as Christians through his books clearly testifes to the reality of his faith. I doubt that many of his critics have produced fruit like that. Many prominent Christian teachers also have expressed their deep appreciation of his writings. Lewis has been one of God's great gifts to us all.

John
NZ

1Newcreation · Feb 8, 2007

simmeringabsolute said:
Lewis writes in Mere Christianity, "Finally, though I have had to speak at some length about sex, I want to make it as clear as I possibly can that the center of Christian morality is not here. If anyone thinks that Christians regard unchastity as the supreme vice, he is quite wrong. The sins of the flesh are bad, but they are the least bad of all sins. All the worst pleasures are purely spiritual. The pleasure of putting other people in the wrong, of bossing and patronizing and spoiling sport, and backbiting; the pleasures of power, of hatred. For there are two things inside me [] they are the animal self and the diabolical self; and the diabolical self is the worst of the two. That is why a cold self-righteous prig who goes regularly to church may be far nearer to hell than a prostitute. But of course it is better to be neither."

Does anyone agree with Lewis? If so, please provide some support.

I have never read this Lewis book before, but it is making me think that I would like to. I kinda like what he says here. I believe I may understand where he is coming from. And as someone has said already, Lewis is just voicing his opinion, his observation of Christian mankind during his time.
We still live in an age where sexual sin seems to be scorned upon more than many other sins. People with pious attitudes, looking at the splinter in others eyes before taking out the log out of their own. I have heard of the stories such as a young Christian girl getting pregnant and being shunned by the congregation. Or someone leaving a particular church because they know that a gay person attends, or gossip about sordid adulterous affairs.

I think it's just a warning to those hypocrites who go to church every Sunday, and believe they are going to heaven just because they sit in the pew.

If you notice the very last sentence that Lewis says here, and I believe he is covering his back
'but of course it is better to be neither'
Lewis knows that bottom line in the eyes of God and by His law, the prostitute and the cold self-righteous prig are both committing sin in need of forgiveness.

1newcreation

drifter5 · Feb 8, 2007

I think it is wrong to worship Lewis, as is the temptation i fear for some Christians.What i mean by worship is to put Lewis on a pedastal.

synger · Feb 8, 2007

drifter5 said:
I think it is wrong to worship Lewis, as is the temptation i fear for some Christians.

I think that each generation of Christians has produced some amazing thinkers, apologists, and theologians, who are called to clarify God's Word against the specific attacks of that generation. Whether it is the ECFs writing against the gnostics and the heresies of the first centuries, or Augustine writing about the City of God, or the writings of the medieval mystics trying to explain how God draws close to them in contemplation, or the modern writers fending off everything from rationalism to The Da Vinci Code... God has sent men and women to explain in the voice of each generation, and to edify the body of Christ.

Are they inspired? I like to think so. Are they inerrant? Of course not. Everything a Christian (or anyone else) says and does must be measured against the Scriptures. We can look back at certain generations and see their particular biases and blind spots, safe in our niche in the present. Future Christians will look at our contemporary writers and see our blind spots. That's why it's so important that we do not lose touch with the great cloud of witnesses that came before us.

That being said, you are right. Some people, especially those who are reading him for the first time, tend to give Lewis more credit than he deserves. Are they worshipping him? I don't think so. But they are quick to defend him. He was one of the most understandable and approachable apologists of his time, and he introduced a new generation of apologists to the art.

But I could say the same of Augustine, or BB Warfield, or Martin Luther, or Thomas Aquinas, or Richard Foster. They each wrote things that made a tremendous impact on the Christian thought of their generation, and they were looked upon (and still included) as giants among theologians, pastors, and speakers.

In the end, it's all a matter of discernment. The Bible is our rule and our life, God's gift to His people. All other writings must be measured against it. What is edifying and useful, use. What is questionable, leave behind.

drifter5 · Feb 8, 2007

This is how i view Lewis' works as questionable. It is my own opinion. It is up to each person to come to their own conclusion. I am sorry if i have offended any one here , i just think that we need to be discerning .+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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Radagast · Feb 9, 2007

simmeringabsolute said:
Lewis writes in Mere Christianity, "Finally, though I have had to speak at some length about sex, I want to make it as clear as I possibly can that the center of Christian morality is not here. If anyone thinks that Christians regard unchastity as the supreme vice, he is quite wrong. The sins of the flesh are bad, but they are the least bad of all sins...

I agree totally.

Jesus, for example, was much easier on those who committed sins of the flesh, and much harder on e.g. the pharisees.

All sin is bad, but the sins of the flesh are much less bad than the others, especially pride.

drifter5 · Feb 9, 2007

I think that ALL sins are hated by God. God wants us to hate ALL sin too. I think , for example , that Jesus teaches that lust and adultry are EQUALLY sinful, and NOT ( as we could be tempted by the devil to think ):" Oh well adultry is not that bad as it is only the same as lust." God wants us to confess all of our sins to Him each day , and God is faithful and just to forgive us all of our sins. Each time we repent , Jesus washes us clean in His precious blood , so that we are made whiter than snow . PRAISE THE LORD ! " Oh, how marvelous!, oh , how wonderful! and my song shall ever be. Oh, how marvelous! oh, how wonderful is my Saviour's love for me ! "

drifter5 · Feb 9, 2007

I believe that Lewis had Catholic roots. I think that he believed in purgatory. Purgatory is NOT Biblical , and is , therefore, a false teaching.

Weasel7711 · Feb 9, 2007

drifter5 said:
I believe that Lewis had Catholic roots. I think that he believed in purgatory. Purgatory is NOT Biblical , and is , therefore, a false teaching.

He had Anglican roots (church of England) and I dont recall any of his books supporting purgatory. I remember that the foreword to Mere Christianity mentioned that Catholics would not neccesarily agree with much of what he had to say.

1Newcreation · Feb 9, 2007

1Newcreation said:
if you notice the very last sentence that Lewis says here, and I believe he is covering his back
'but of course it is better to be neither'
Lewis knows that bottom line in the eyes of God and by His law, the prostitute and the cold self-righteous prig are both committing sin in need of forgiveness.

1newcreation

Maybe I am defending Lewis here, but Drifter5, it is true that we need to be discerning, and to me and my life, God's Word is paramount above anyone elses.
There is no danger of me being a groupie for C.S. Lewis. I don't believe we are all blinded and dazzled by him and are putting him or anyone on a pedastal, and you know God Bless you brother for looking out for us and anyone else. I may understand your heart a little, you don't want others to be deceived or led astray. There are false teachers out there for sure. You give a good warning.
But the original poster, asked what we thought or if we agreed with what was written and so this is what I personally thought, and I believe it is good to think and to consider other people's writing, it is always interesting to hear other points of views, and as individuals it is good to measure what we read or what we hear up against the Word of God and I am sure we will frequently find flaws, because man has created it, not God. I think you are giving many Christians less credit than they actually deserve.

God Bless you

1newcreation

1Newcreation · Feb 9, 2007

I just thought of something. By the way I also believe sin is sin.
but I do believe there are degrees of evilness.

So someone steels a cookie from the cookie jar and compare him to an axe murderer. Both are sins, both are breaking the commandments, but I believe there is one sin less evil driven than the other, the punishment for these crimes given by man are certainly poles apart.
Maybe this is what Lewis was trying to get at.
That yes sin is sin, and I go back to that last sentence from that passage given. And yes both are in great need of forgiveness from our Lord.
But which is the lesser of two evils? Which is more dangerous to the church, to the body of Christ? God hates and detests Pride.

1newcreation

FrauleinElsa · Feb 9, 2007

Can I ask? Don't all sins more or less stem from pride anyway?

C.S. Lewis: Sins of the flesh are the least bad of all sins?

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