Bye Bye Closet
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NARTH report quoted said:
NARTH report quoted said:
I think this part of the report is purposely dishonest. You do not have to have 100% correlation in identical twins for something to have a genetic basis or tendency. Autism is thought to be a combination of genetics and environment and there is not a 100% correlation in identical twins. There is just a higher correlation between identical twins than fraternal twins or other siblings ... and siblings of an autistic person have a higher chance of having some sort of autism spectrum disorder than what you'd see in cases where there is no other autistic family member.
I'm sure doctors know this, that you don't need a 100% correlation in identical twins for there to be a genetic link, and I feel that this is a purposely misleading statement based on they're not wanting to acknowlege the possibility. Certainly environment can be involved, but environment can and often is a factor acting on some genetically predetermined characteristic.
Have to go right now, but PCF that original quote is a bit too long.
Marcia
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InnerPhyre
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CeeBee, I've gotta ask, brother...if you believe that homosexuals are called to a life of celibacy, why don't you tell people that you are called to be celibate? Going out and telling the world "Hey everyone! I'm gay!" may feel good, but it will also bring harsh condemnation, judgement, and possibly unwanted attention. I'm not condeming you here at all. Just looking out for you, bro. If you are called to be celibate, that is a wonderful calling indeed.
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ProCommunioneFacior said:
My opinion is that this post lacks of christian Faith, bc this post means that a gay to be able to fully live as a christian, need before years in medical therapy.
In other words: it looks like the church is not able to give a answer and asks physicians to take the place.
I'm sure that this is the idea of some physicians that need clients for their job, but it is not the idea of CC that have lots of people/gruops/places perfectly able to propone Christ as the only spiritual physician.
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Why do gay people seem to feel the need to throw their sexual preference in people's faces? I don't recall a time where a heterosexual person/friend came up to me and said they just wanted me to know they are attracted to members of the opposite sex. I have had people tell me they were gay on several occasions. Each time I was like, "Huh? so er ah well, I hope that works out for you. I think I'm late for something. Bye."
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- Apr 11, 2005
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Well Cee, I will give you some scenerios....of which you should contemplate b4 making the ultimate choice to come out...more so.
You want and said you want to pray and allow God to help convert your desires. I commend you and will pray beside you sweetie.
The problem is this; once ppl find out your orientation, they will see 'YOU' differently. You will become an object vs the same ol' guy.
I am not saying this to be mean, I am telling the truth.
Even if we wish the truth were different, it isn't.
Your 'opening up' might make you feel freer inside, but then regrets might apply. For instance, even guy friends will tend to back off...and that will hurt.
Mostly because you want loved for who you are....and your sexuality is NOT who you are. Its unfortunate, but that is HOW society sees someone.
And FullyMT said something true, there will more temptations your way....because ppl who are willing to accept this might begin pushing you into temptation to proove to you that they accept you.
For what it is worth, I accept you and I will pray with you.
I love ya......take care!
You want and said you want to pray and allow God to help convert your desires. I commend you and will pray beside you sweetie.
The problem is this; once ppl find out your orientation, they will see 'YOU' differently. You will become an object vs the same ol' guy.
I am not saying this to be mean, I am telling the truth.
Even if we wish the truth were different, it isn't.
Your 'opening up' might make you feel freer inside, but then regrets might apply. For instance, even guy friends will tend to back off...and that will hurt.
Mostly because you want loved for who you are....and your sexuality is NOT who you are. Its unfortunate, but that is HOW society sees someone.
And FullyMT said something true, there will more temptations your way....because ppl who are willing to accept this might begin pushing you into temptation to proove to you that they accept you.
For what it is worth, I accept you and I will pray with you.
I love ya......take care!
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fragmentsofdreams
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Always be honest to yourself and others, and don't let those who don't know where to place you in their world get you down.
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WarriorAngel said:
True. You could pigeon hole yourself into something you might have a hard time getting out of. I know two formerly married men who left wives and children who are currently dying of AIDS since living out their choice of alternate lifestyle.
Catholic history is rife with brilliant celibate men who didn't seem at all to be attracted to women. The choice for what you do is all yours and I pray God walks with you all your days.
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- Feb 8, 2004
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Maynard Keenan
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lg3 said:
By the age of 15 most people are experiencing adult sexual urges, and if a person is gay then these urges are going to be homosexual.
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RoseofLima
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As a 31 year old woman- I would wholeheartedly say that 15 year olds are feeling 15 year old sexual urges, not adult ones. There are things I though and did and felt about my sexuality when I was 15...that I was sure were just the very right thing for me, being true and honest about my deepest self...and boy, did I turn out to be wrong! It was all mised and mingled up with wounds and brokenesses so deep I didn't even know I had them....Maynard Keenan said:
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I knew my sexual orientation quite distinctly well before age 15. Some of you people are living in some kind of delusion about your own past. I also dare say that females have no right to assert such things, as their development is markedly different than that of males.
I can tell you, also as a 31-year-old, but a male, that by age 15 I was VERY aware of who I was sexually attracted to, and it was most definitely females. If the boy says he's attracted physically to males, then that's what it is. I can't believe you people are acting so incredulous.
What we should be doing is trying to support him in this cross that he will be bearing for his entire life. It's an amazing and awesome thing that he is able to recognize it so young and begin the preparations for dealing with it. The pressures he is about to face to have sex are immeasurably powerful. As a high school teacher, I live with these kids on a daily basis, and I can tell you that this poor boy is going to be hit with temptations and peer pressure on top of prejudices and ridicule. We need to support him and offer him help.
CeeBee, as a 31-year-old virgin myself (not something I generally mention in every posting), I can tell you that it is VERY POSSIBLE to go without sex. A cross to bear? Indeed. Although I am getting married this year and will obviously change my status, I also pondered the possibility of a religious life or of a life as a celibate member of the Catholic laity. Unlike the movies, TV and popular society beliefs try to convince you, you DO NOT have to have sex to be a healthy man, to have a happy life and to enjoy every bit of life. Although you have a cross to bear, you also have a load off of your shoulders. No need to concern yourself with dating, children, sexually transmitted diseases or any of the other concerns that go along with all of that. You have a life where youc an serve the Lord, have a great career, and contribute to society in ways that no married person possibly could. If your choice ends up being religious life, then you could serve God in an even more meaningful way.
Don't let the pressures get to you... Feel free to come here for support or message me personally.
God bless you,
Michael
I can tell you, also as a 31-year-old, but a male, that by age 15 I was VERY aware of who I was sexually attracted to, and it was most definitely females. If the boy says he's attracted physically to males, then that's what it is. I can't believe you people are acting so incredulous.
What we should be doing is trying to support him in this cross that he will be bearing for his entire life. It's an amazing and awesome thing that he is able to recognize it so young and begin the preparations for dealing with it. The pressures he is about to face to have sex are immeasurably powerful. As a high school teacher, I live with these kids on a daily basis, and I can tell you that this poor boy is going to be hit with temptations and peer pressure on top of prejudices and ridicule. We need to support him and offer him help.
CeeBee, as a 31-year-old virgin myself (not something I generally mention in every posting), I can tell you that it is VERY POSSIBLE to go without sex. A cross to bear? Indeed. Although I am getting married this year and will obviously change my status, I also pondered the possibility of a religious life or of a life as a celibate member of the Catholic laity. Unlike the movies, TV and popular society beliefs try to convince you, you DO NOT have to have sex to be a healthy man, to have a happy life and to enjoy every bit of life. Although you have a cross to bear, you also have a load off of your shoulders. No need to concern yourself with dating, children, sexually transmitted diseases or any of the other concerns that go along with all of that. You have a life where youc an serve the Lord, have a great career, and contribute to society in ways that no married person possibly could. If your choice ends up being religious life, then you could serve God in an even more meaningful way.
Don't let the pressures get to you... Feel free to come here for support or message me personally.
God bless you,
Michael
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- Feb 5, 2002
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SouthCoast said:
What a great post. I'm glad you made the effort to put it here.
I found it somewhat astounding myself.
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Oh, one more thing. I also agree with the previous advice to try not to begin tagging yourself with the title of "gay." I don't even mean it in terms of society's feelings on it, but if you tag yourself as "gay," then you may invite a group of people to gravitate around you that you DO NOT want to be involved with. People who are looking to make contacts for sexual encounters (whether that seems to be the case initially or not), and whose entire social schema revolves around sexual acts.
I say this not as a homosexual myself, but my best friend of 20 years is a homosexual and has actually shared a home with me for the past 7 years. I have been in many social situations with the social groups that he associates himself with on the basis of their common homosexuality. This has not once ever resulted in a positive outcome for him, but instead pain and heartache. Furthermore, there is a gross overemphasis on material possessions, "worldy" things, and an infatuation with sexual topics. Every "gay" event is in some form or fashion a way for people to meet for the ultimate purpose of engaging in sexual acts, whether it seems that way on the surface or not.
For instance, does it really seem logical that you would need to have a "gay" rodeo? Wouldn't a competent rodeo performer be able to compete in a "regular" rodeo? I won't even go into the clubs/bars or bookstores, as you can imagine how low it can get. Certainly this is true among "heterosexual" establishments as well, but not every event in the real world focuses on the sexual orientation of the participants. After 20 years (over 10 of which I've known he was homosexual), I still fail to understand how involving in social situations with other homosexuals at the exclusion of heterosexuals benefits him in any way other than the increased probability of sexual encounters resulting from the social activity.
As such, I again reiterate, that I would avoid the "gay" crowd, the "gay" persona, and the entire "culture" that goes with that. It does not embody any Christ-like or Christ-serving features, and serves only to further temptation into sin.
Your burden is heavy. Allow Christ to carry it... and avoid situations that put it upon yourself alone to bear.
God bless,
Michael
I say this not as a homosexual myself, but my best friend of 20 years is a homosexual and has actually shared a home with me for the past 7 years. I have been in many social situations with the social groups that he associates himself with on the basis of their common homosexuality. This has not once ever resulted in a positive outcome for him, but instead pain and heartache. Furthermore, there is a gross overemphasis on material possessions, "worldy" things, and an infatuation with sexual topics. Every "gay" event is in some form or fashion a way for people to meet for the ultimate purpose of engaging in sexual acts, whether it seems that way on the surface or not.
For instance, does it really seem logical that you would need to have a "gay" rodeo? Wouldn't a competent rodeo performer be able to compete in a "regular" rodeo? I won't even go into the clubs/bars or bookstores, as you can imagine how low it can get. Certainly this is true among "heterosexual" establishments as well, but not every event in the real world focuses on the sexual orientation of the participants. After 20 years (over 10 of which I've known he was homosexual), I still fail to understand how involving in social situations with other homosexuals at the exclusion of heterosexuals benefits him in any way other than the increased probability of sexual encounters resulting from the social activity.
As such, I again reiterate, that I would avoid the "gay" crowd, the "gay" persona, and the entire "culture" that goes with that. It does not embody any Christ-like or Christ-serving features, and serves only to further temptation into sin.
Your burden is heavy. Allow Christ to carry it... and avoid situations that put it upon yourself alone to bear.
God bless,
Michael
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Pyschological maturity in the modern west is seriously beginning to lag behind. 50 years ago a 15 year old would have had the pyschological and emotional maturity to have adult sexual urges. Today's 15 year old is greatly behind that curve, largely due to the fact people are simply living longer and taking longer to prepare for life. Things that would have been expected of a 15 year old 50 or 60 years ago are not generally expected of today's 15 year old.
As to the notion of being born gay, the idea that people are exclusively homosexual is less than 50 years old. Even in societies like those of pagan Greece and Rome where that behavior was tolerated or acceptable homosexuality was regarded as a means of pleasure sex. They did not classify people that way, and men that had homosexual relations one night may be visiting a temple harlot the next and having relations with their wife the following. Futhermore, the common place status of "bi-sexuality" within the homosexual "community" would strongly tend to support that homosexuaity is a fetish and not an inborn trait. Not suprisingly many people in other fetish groups, S&M types for example commonly claim that their sexual behaviors are equally "inborn." It seems a little less than likely people are naturally inclined to zipper suits or well you know.
As to the notion of being born gay, the idea that people are exclusively homosexual is less than 50 years old. Even in societies like those of pagan Greece and Rome where that behavior was tolerated or acceptable homosexuality was regarded as a means of pleasure sex. They did not classify people that way, and men that had homosexual relations one night may be visiting a temple harlot the next and having relations with their wife the following. Futhermore, the common place status of "bi-sexuality" within the homosexual "community" would strongly tend to support that homosexuaity is a fetish and not an inborn trait. Not suprisingly many people in other fetish groups, S&M types for example commonly claim that their sexual behaviors are equally "inborn." It seems a little less than likely people are naturally inclined to zipper suits or well you know.
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Always sex and temptations!
The problem for a gay is not sex/no sex. For that he is in the same conditions of all the other same age males that shall not have sex with girls.
The problem for a gay is that he deeply falls in love with other boys, and the world rejects such a love. He is like a martian here. This world has some base structures (engagement, marriage, fatherhood, priesthood) that are not for him.
And noone gives him any answers but: it is not true that you fall in love with other boys or: you shall go years in medical theraphy.
The best aswer is christian charity. The future belongs to God, but now there shall be christian charity. That is how we can help him.
The problem for a gay is not sex/no sex. For that he is in the same conditions of all the other same age males that shall not have sex with girls.
The problem for a gay is that he deeply falls in love with other boys, and the world rejects such a love. He is like a martian here. This world has some base structures (engagement, marriage, fatherhood, priesthood) that are not for him.
And noone gives him any answers but: it is not true that you fall in love with other boys or: you shall go years in medical theraphy.
The best aswer is christian charity. The future belongs to God, but now there shall be christian charity. That is how we can help him.
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lg3 said:
No, it's called sexual experimentation. A lot of males & females go through this. Just to try it out.
I think where everyone is getting confused here is that they think CeeBee is going to delve into all things homosexual. He has made it clear he is not.
That is the difference between sexual feeling/preference verses sexual experimentation.
I find it somewhat appalling in a way that some are saying that his feelings are lying to him.
It's like someone saying I'm depressed & everyone saying that they are not. They are too young to feel anything genuine as they are still developing.
I mean, c'mon.
All stages of life have genuine & valid feelings. What makes these feelings different is how we handle them based on our maturity & life experience.
Maturity or lack of it does not make the feelings you have during that time null & void. It's the lack of life experience that makes us take these feelings at whatever stage in life & screw it up.
And I agree, CeeBee should not lable himself to everyone within earshot. But he should discuss his feelings with those he values & trust the most to help him through this time. Church guidance would be an excellent choice also.
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Michie, u have helped me sooo much! I am so NOT gonna go beg guys for sex, I am not coming out to everyone (yet), if/when I do, I am going to make it CLEAR that I am gonna remain celibate. And yeah, some guys experiment, some may even have some real attraction, but for short periods of time. This is a 4 year old thing for me, not anything new. And yes I have prayed about this, and will continue to. And I am OPEN to the fact that this is possibly a phase and I am really bi or strate, but I doubt it, but I am not ignoring the possibility, I even hope for it. And the discrimination: that is something I am going to have to deal with! Blacks didn't dye their skin cuz they were discriminated against; it would have gone against their nature, and they would have to hide so many things, like their true family etc. And I am tired of hiding and lying and all, acting like i think chicks are hot and all. But I say again, that I am not coming out to the general public any time soon. Oh, and to the person that said that I should pray the rosary: I have, and still do. Thanks everyone for ur support and concern, tho I must say the response here wasnt nearly as warm and helpful as I would have expected. But thanks michie, SouthCoast, and others, for ur support and love.
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