Buying a corvette is wrong?

[stevevw]

This is something I have been looking into and its not just the corvette, thats just an example. And for that example the corvette is a race car and has no real reason to be purchased except for pride and entitlement. Reasons I come to this.
Jesus speaks highly about the ways into heaven is through humility, meekness etc.
Phil 2:3 Tells us to put others as more important then ourselves and not from selfishness.
1Pet 5:5 Clothe ourselves with humility towards one another
Matt 18:4 Be humble as a child
Of course there is a lot more. Humility is a heart attitude with meekness, submissive to Christ and not the world. True humility seeks to bring glory and honor to God and looks out for the interest of others. Meekness would to be submissive to others and their needs.
So I feel when a person goes to buy a truck for example, should buy a used truck that isnt loaded with features, not to think we deserve brand new even if we can afford it. If you can afford a 60k truck but go with a preowned 45kmile truck that is a basic model and be content with less is humility. That extra money you have can easily go to a family in need, specially now that so many people are struggling.
When I see a 500k dollar motorhome, I dont see some glorious and nice thing. I see a temporary man made item that will not last because nothing we do on this earth or create will last forever. In time that treasure will rust. I see something that could pull my mother and father, brother and myself out of debt completely, relieving us from the slave position that stresses and does nothing but draw negativity.
What we do is, we take from God and his creation, we form it and mold it then call it ours. When really everything is His. The money we make is because of the health and energy he has given us. He puts us in positions to be blessed financially to bless those who are struggling.
I think we have let money creating this ability to justify our purchases.
There is more to this but this is the start and I am just wanting to see what people think and also to consider do we deny self or reward self because we deserve a good life with the things of this world we want.

You could look at this a couple of ways. In some ways at least in modern times just being part of modern society and participating in what many think is just living and functioning is living a life apart from God. Contributing to the destruction of Gods creation and the divide where some are poor and others are not.

On an individual level as you point out the bible says we should put others first at the very least treat them as we would want to be treated. That includes with material wellbeing and storing up our treasures in Heaven.

I had a similar discussion on another thread about what it means to be a Christian today. I noted that the early church were not wealthy and were persecuted and even killed for Christ. The other poster said we should live like Christ, be perfect like Christ which is our aim as Christians.

I pointed out if Christians were to truely follow Christ then there are enough Christians that we should be wiping out poverty and no one should go hungry to the point they get sick or die or be homeless if we were to give up material wealth.

I think this highlights how many have been compromised by the world today. The more society makes people comfortable and fullfills all their needs and wants the more it consumes and takes control where people find it hard to give up those benefits. Say compared to historic times when society had little and people struggled and had little material wealth.

It seems theres more for people to lose and they are so deeply entangled in the world they rationalise this as OK as Christians. Perhaps this is what the bible talks about where many will say they know Christ but are not truely for Christ.

It seems to me that to truely be a Christian we must work towards casting off the world even if that means suffering financially and materially to the point where we are inconvenienced. Yes by the cheaper car, secondhand cloths and furniture. Don't worry about the looks, or whether its the latest. Get what you need to do what you have to do but no more. Even dress in sack cloth if you have to lol.

If we did live like Christ even a small number of Christians I think the world would see something amazing that would bring attention to God. The change would be so big and amazing that it would stand out and people would be saved. That we don't see this in the west shows how complacent we have become.

 

[bèlla]

I pointed out if Christians were to truely follow Christ then we should be wiping out poverty and no one should go hungry to the point they get sick or die or be homeless.

The bible said the poor would always be with us. Which suggests it's more involved than material lack. There may be a greater reason poverty will remain we can't understand. But we will when we're in His presence.

On a practical level, things are more complicated than that period. There are numerous contributors to that state beyond the obvious. Mental health and substance abuse issues are staggering. Which exacerbates sickness and a host of social ills we're not equipped to deal with. It's bigger than beds or food.

I think this highlights how many have been compromised by the world today. The more society makes people comfortable and fullfills all their needs and wants the more it consumes and takes control where people find it hard to give up those benefits. Say compared to historic times when society had little and people struggled.

The majority aren't comfortable. They're making do and quite a few are living paycheck to paycheck just to survive. The other day I saw a thumbnail that said the new status symbol is food. Not a car, house or trip but a latte or salad. That's where we are in our economy.

It seems to me that to truely be a Christian we must work towards casting off the world even if that means suffering financially and materially to the point where we are inconvenienced.

You don't have to speculate. You can lead by example. ;-)

We have a generation of people who can't afford an apartment and are still at home. They're not contemplating marriage or families. They can barely care for themselves. And they're thrifting by necessity not choice. Things are getting hard.

If we did live like Christ even a small number of Christians I think the world would see something amazing that would bring attention to God. The change would be so big and amazing that it would stand out and people would be saved. That we don't see this in the west shows how complacent we have become.

The world saw Mother Teresa and others like her and it didn't cause a revival. I knew of her when I was estranged from God. Vows of poverty don't bring people to faith en masse. No one wants to be poor. That's why the prosperity gospel is popular.

If you've read the room you've noticed an increase in discussions about sharing, community living, etc. But you weren't hearing the same in the past like you are today. A lot of people have burned bridges, exhausted the resources they had, or made serious mistakes that affected them financially.

They weren't saying we're family then because they didn't need you. It's not just christians. It's pockets around the internet doing the same because they don't have a safety net. So it's the group this and we that. But they weren't talking like that when things were better.

For many it's a hustle and they're trying to survive. They align with a community or group because there's strength in numbers. You'll have a lot of them coming to the church and discernment is needed. They know christians are gullible and they'll take advantage of it. We have to take everything and everyone to the Lord and let Him guide us.

~bella

 

[timewerx]

They printed an excessive amount of money during the pandemic which exacerbated the debt and caused inflation. We aren't taking in enough to pay our bills. We're borrowing to fund it. That's why the number keeps growing.

Income isn't keeping pace with the cost of living. Things have gone up a lot since 2020. Someone did a shopping comparison from that period and today using their purchases from Walmart. It was $100 in the past and $400 now for the same items.

~bella

Not one of our relatives in California are complaining though. Most of them are working in the healthcare industry. Given that California have one of the highest cost of living and our relatives in SoCal are still able to do personal travel all over the world more than once in a year.

One family are living together though which can explain why they have lots of money to spend on travel and leisure. Lots of income in just one household.

 

[stevevw]

The bible said the poor would always be with us. Which suggests it's more involved than material lack. There may be a greater reason poverty will remain we can't understand. But we will when we're in His presence.

On a practical level, things are more complicated than that period. There are numerous contributors to that state beyond the obvious. Mental health and substance abuse issues are staggering. Which exacerbates sickness and a host of social ills we're not equipped to deal with. It's bigger than beds or food.

True and I don't think we can save the world from itself. But I think Christians could do more. I look at the Catholic church and its massive wealth. I realise they already do good work but I think they could do a lot more with all that money. Even if that means opening rehabs, mental health support, housing support.

I am associated with homeless support and its a constant battle with finances, with even getting enough food hampers for example to feed families. No child should be going hungry in the western world. But no person should die of hunger. That is a blight on humanity nevermind Christians.

Though we may not be able to solve societies problems, the systemic issues its up to Christians to mop up the mess left by society. Even saving one person is enough. But I also think its the message that others would get seeing Christians putting their money where their mouth is.

Its the complete opposite of the harm the church caused in the past and would go a long way to mending this and at least causing the opposite of turning people away by turning them towards God.

The majority aren't comfortable. They're making do and quite a few are living paycheck to paycheck just to survive. The other day I saw a thumbnail that said the new status symbol is food. Not a car, house or trip but a latte or salad. That's where we are in our economy.

Wow thats bad. I agree and I think this is a strange irony that in western nations which should be improving life we are seeing it crumble away. But there is a fairly large well to do class which is those that managed to already have a house and other stuff. Many say its the baby boomers fault that has pooled all the money and resources.

Funny enough I think much of this class are Christians.

You don't have to speculate. You can lead by example. ;-)

We have a generation of people who can't afford an apartment and are still at home. They're not contemplating marriage or families. They can barely care for themselves. And they're thrifting by necessity not choice. Things are getting hard.

Yes and thats the system which is where some have and a growing number are without. I agree leading by example. If we all did that society would be different.

The world saw Mother Teresa and others like her and it didn't cause a revival. I knew of her when I was estranged from God. Vows of poverty don't bring people to faith en masse. No one wants to be poor. That's why the prosperity gospel is popular.

I think for those around her it made a big difference and saved many. If there was 100 Mother Teresa's then logic says it would be 100 times increased. When you think of it that way it seems it would only take a small number of truely dedicated people willing to sacrifice all to make a big difference.

I realise that in some situations like in Africa there is also political barriers to stability which makes it more complicated. But in situations where we can get involved especially in the west with our freedoms and vast resources I think we can do more.

If you've read the room you've noticed an increase in discussions about sharing, community living, etc. But you weren't hearing the same in the past like you are today. A lot of people have burned bridges, exhausted the resources they had, or made serious mistakes that affected them financially.

They weren't saying we're family then because they didn't need you. It's not just christians. It's pockets around the internet doing the same because they don't have a safety net. So it's the group this and we that. But they weren't talking like that when things were better.

For many it's a hustle and they're trying to survive. They align with a community or group because there's strength in numbers. You'll have a lot of them coming to the church and discernment is needed. They know christians are gullible and they'll take advantage of it. We have to take everything and everyone to the Lord and let Him guide us.

~bella

Yeah its not getting better for many. People will pool together when it gets tough especially in low income communities as that is all they have, each other. In that sense they are rich.

I do see more people coming out to help since the cost of living has gone up and people are losing their homes and finding it hard to pay the bills. More churches offering food and support which is good. I think thats when Christians can really shine when the going gets tough they can get going with help. Be a light in the darkness when theres no hope.

 

[bèlla]

Not one of our relatives in California are complaining though. Most of them are working in the healthcare industry. Given that California have one of the highest cost of living and our relatives in SoCal are still able to do personal travel all over the world more than once in a year.

One family are living together though which can explain why they have lots of money to spend on travel and leisure. Lots of income in just one household.

California isn't what it used to be and is swiftly going downhill. The homeless population exploded and the warm climate attracts many to the area for that reason. They've lost a lot of businesses and residents. They've fled to Texas and other states. The highest cost of living is in Hawaii followed by Massachusetts. If I had to choose between the three Mass would be my choice many times over.

Consolidation will be more commonplace in the coming years. With younger people still at home they'll eventually determine it's more cost effective to share a place and the living expenses. Single residences may become a thing of the past.

~bella

 

[bèlla]

True and I don't think we can save the world from itself. But I think Christians could do more. I look at the Catholic church and its massive wealth. I realise they already do good work but I think they could do a lot more with all that money. Even if that means opening rehabs, mental health support, housing support.

The health industry is in transition and A.I. will have a dramatic effect on medicine. I don't know how that bodes for mental health and related ailments. But telemedicine will be huge. If I had to speculate in light of the shifts I've seen elsewhere and growing examples of haves and have nots intentionally sown. I'd say it won't be good. Sickness hasn't become a stigma but there will come a time when being in poor health will be frowned upon.

Though we may not be able to solve societies problems, the systemic issues its up to Christians to mop up the mess left by society. Even saving one person is enough. But I also think its the message that others would get seeing Christians putting their money where their mouth is.

The majority are tired. Tired of the stress, evil, pressures and other things they're dealing with. They're not oblivious to suffering but their plate is full. I don't think it's an omission of concern that hastens involvement. It's a culmination of provocation of survival mode by negative entities coupled with the realization they don't have the bandwidth to do so on a mental or emotional level. The gravity of problems is great.

Wow thats bad. I agree and I think this is a strange irony that in western nations which should be improving life we are seeing it crumble away. But there is a fairly large well to do class which is those that managed to already have a house and other stuff. Many say its the baby boomers fault that has pooled all the money and resources.

It isn't strange at all. We've had forces working against us on a natural and spiritual plane and we've known it. But the problem was ignored because things were good. We had the house, job and other spoils and spoke theoretically about the devil but his minions were working. If you keep making sandcastles while others rest on cabanas you'll own all the sand after a while. That's what happens when you sleep.

We have a society full of just enough. That's why we're in this mess. If the majority utilized what the Lord had given them we wouldn't be here. Now you wake up to the realization your enemy is powerful and has you in a bind.

But in situations where we can get involved especially in the west with our freedoms and vast resources I think we can do more.

When suffering increases that isn't a rallying call for service when you're under its weight. You're on your own more than they'll admit at the moment. That began in 2020. Survival is foremost in the minds of those who prepared or have the resources to pivot. They're securing themselves and their families. That's their number one priority. That doesn't mean they aren't giving or lending a hand when possible.

~bella

 

[Stephen777]

"The people in biblical times weren't slandering church members on the internet because they won't invite them over so they can swim in their pool or lend equipment they've had difficulty using. This has nothing to do with Jesus. Everything you've said pertains to your wants or expectations and you've complained about several."

I am not saying the members name but hear what im saying. We are a small church and are very close with one another. What im getting at is God has blessed him with these above your normal living level, why wouldnt he want to share the blessing and come together to celebrate?
The reason I have said these things is because im speaking from a first person perspective. The things as far as construction is things of need to help multiple members.


"You've berated your pastor and two church members and probably shared your thoughts with others which might explain your dilemma. People who speak as you do rarely keep it to themselves."
I have shared my experience and came here to gather knowledge and view points. If I wanted to "berate" my pastor this would be on a local social media chat. When you go to your elders, do you not share what is on your mind that is bothering you or your spirit? I came here seeking wisdom and biblical references, not sarcasm or words from a emotional state. Be slow to anger is more than it says.


"The leadership in the church isn't responsible for buying vehicles. If you weren't so blind you'd recognize the problem with your suggestion. If he does it for one they'll expect the same when another problem occurs. That's financially reckless. The church could take up a collection on the person's behalf. But the pastor shouldn't be funding it. The moment he can't there will be problems.

You may believe you're justified by the way you feel. But it sounds petty and they have feelings too. You seem oblivious to that and it's a little disconcerting. You should work on your heart and let God deal with them."

My comment was the pastor bought a brand new Jeep for his wife. I was not suggesting he buy anyone a vehicle but was suggesting the show of humility and meekness. I did not say anywhere the pastor should be funding anything. You can say it is petty and I should ignore them but I love them dearly and visit with them regularly, the wealthy family. I fear they will not pass through the eye of the needle and out of love I am giving first person examples of what I see and came here for direction.
You have attempted to make me into the bad guy with every post you have replied and I am here out of love and care for the pastor and the couple.
The summary of this post was to see if I am biblically correct in the idea of wealthy people spending money on large wants and not being content with the simpler materials of life, displaying humility and meekness, is leading them on a wrong path. My examples was to give a deeper look into a specific situation I am concerned about.
My comments about the pastor is a broad thing happening everywhere, I noticed a local pastor driving a brand new escalade the other day. I once again used my personal experience seeking wisdom. My experiences are not alone, its happening everywhere and I am looking for thoughts and direction.

 

[ThomasNV]

This is something I have been looking into and its not just the corvette, thats just an example. And for that example the corvette is a race car and has no real reason to be purchased except for pride and entitlement. Reasons I come to this.
Jesus speaks highly about the ways into heaven is through humility, meekness etc.
Phil 2:3 Tells us to put others as more important then ourselves and not from selfishness.
1Pet 5:5 Clothe ourselves with humility towards one another
Matt 18:4 Be humble as a child
Of course there is a lot more. Humility is a heart attitude with meekness, submissive to Christ and not the world. True humility seeks to bring glory and honor to God and looks out for the interest of others. Meekness would to be submissive to others and their needs.
So I feel when a person goes to buy a truck for example, should buy a used truck that isnt loaded with features, not to think we deserve brand new even if we can afford it. If you can afford a 60k truck but go with a preowned 45kmile truck that is a basic model and be content with less is humility. That extra money you have can easily go to a family in need, specially now that so many people are struggling.
When I see a 500k dollar motorhome, I dont see some glorious and nice thing. I see a temporary man made item that will not last because nothing we do on this earth or create will last forever. In time that treasure will rust. I see something that could pull my mother and father, brother and myself out of debt completely, relieving us from the slave position that stresses and does nothing but draw negativity.
What we do is, we take from God and his creation, we form it and mold it then call it ours. When really everything is His. The money we make is because of the health and energy he has given us. He puts us in positions to be blessed financially to bless those who are struggling.
I think we have let money creating this ability to justify our purchases.
There is more to this but this is the start and I am just wanting to see what people think and also to consider do we deny self or reward self because we deserve a good life with the things of this world we want.

All that we have is given to us by the Lord, and actually belongs to Him. There’s nothing inherently wrong with having nice things, but I think prayer is important to decide how God wants us to spend the resources He has given us.

 

[timewerx]

I go back to my belief that humility is being able to buy the best but denying ourselves of it and going with something in the middle. Buying brand new high dollar vehicles when the average person buys 45k+ mile vehicles goes against what humility and meekness is.
The equipment, no they are his personal use equipment. I am not able to afford to rent the equipment.

You're right here.

An alternative scenario. If you bought a brand new vehicle and intend to use it for at least 20 years, putting over 100k miles on it would that be humility too?

It isn't like you're buying a brand new vehicle every 5 years but only every 20 years or even more.