"...but it's impossible to be perfect!"

[Ribosome]

Is it because of adam and eve's sin that all people are born slaves to sin? is each born child born as a sinner, with out the abilty to choose repentance and love God? im not saying that children who die go to hell, because as i heard from several calvinists, God does not send them to hell. But basically, as i understand it so far (although it might be erroneous), each person born on earth is already a sinner because of adam's sin. that means, that without God's sovereign election and regeneration, that person is headed for hell the moment he is born.

the response i got was that its not fair that we are born sinners only because of adam. that we didnt do nothing and we are already born sinners because of him. that its not our fault that we can't be perfect, and that we dont deserve God's judgment just because adam wrecked the rest of humanity.

how do i respond to such a statement? how does God hold us responsible for sin when it was adam and eve that made us all born into sin.

 

[kenrapoza]

The Scriptures say that unbelievers are "in Adam", and that believers are "in Christ". This is covenantal language speaking of imputation. People who object to us being treated as sinners create an even larger problem - if we do not allow God to credit Adam's disobedience to us, then we cannot complain when He does not credit Christ's righteousness to us for our salvation. If we cannot stand on the righteousness of Christ as our basis of justification before God, then we are on very dangerous grounds.

Furthermore, the real point is that Adam's sin was imputed to Christ and that Christ's righteousness was imputed to those whom he represents, we don't need Adam's sin to be imputed to us for our condemnation - we are perfectly capable of that on our own. When Adam fell, his seed was corrupted with a fallen nature such that all of us are by nature children of wrath because we have a built in predisposition against the holiness of God. We don't need to be taught to rebel, we do that on our own.

Think of it this way: Jesus taught that the true fulfillment of the law was to love the Lord with all our heart, mind, soul and strength. Have any of us ever really done that perfectly? Have any of us really loved God with all our heart, mind, soul and strength for even 5 minutes? Of course not - we don't really love God in the way that we should because we are sinners. We get that from Adam in our own sinful nature, but we don't need to claim that it is some unfair dealing with Adam's sin on God's part that He calls us sinners. Original Sin is a fundamental doctrine of orthodox Christianity.

 

[heymikey80]

the response i got was that its not fair that we are born sinners only because of adam. that we didnt do nothing and we are already born sinners because of him. that its not our fault that we can't be perfect, and that we dont deserve God's judgment just because adam wrecked the rest of humanity.

how do i respond to such a statement? how does God hold us responsible for sin when it was adam and eve that made us all born into sin.

Fair?

Lessee, we want to do evil, and offend justice and the Infinite God of justice.

How's that not our fault?

Put another way: if I have an inherently broken tool, broken due to its own weakness, do I shrug and try to make the best of things? No, I either throw it out, or I fix it.

Should God settle for less? It's essentially the same answer as the answer to the title of the thread: no, He doesn't need to, and He doesn't.

 

[epistemaniac]

I agree with mikey... fair? We don't want fair!!! What's fair is getting sent to Hell for our sins, which we willingly do... No one makes us sin, including God, and God's leaving us in our sinful state is perfectly within His right as Sovereign Lord. We did not ask to be born, true.... but being born is to be born into sin, with a sin nature. And so we do what is in our nature, and as you say, we seek to justify our sin in whatever way we can, even if it is pointing the finger at God and saying "You made me this way!!!" God never forces us to sin however... As the Confession puts it: Chapter III
Of God's Eternal Decree

I. God from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass;[1] yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin,[2] nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.[3]

footnotes:
[1] EPH 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will. ROM 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! HEB 6:17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath. ROM 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. [2] JAM 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man. 17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. 1JO 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
[3] ACT 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain. MAT 17:12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them. ACT 4:27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, 28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done. JOH 19:11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin. PRO 16:33 The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the Lord.

also see RC Sproul's article "Locus of Astonishment" at 30GoodMinutes.org - R. C. Sproul, "Lord, Lord"