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But it was not a Choice...

Zaac

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I was born this way.

Let's just put this out there. In the midst of all these numerous threads on homosexuality and people doing word studies, has any person shown that God does anything other than prohibit same-sex sexual acts?

It is irrelevant how you think you were born. And it is irrelevant whether or not you chose to be gay or straight.

But as a human being, we all make the choice to sin. God's Word makes it clear that sexual acts with the same sex are prohibited.

And this is backed up with the Full Counsel of God's Word meaning that all of God's Word confirms this.

Has anyone in support of the committing of homosexual acts yet to produce any uniform agreement of Scripture about God affirming the committing of homosexual acts?
 

TheFathersDaughter

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Whether or not it is genetic or choice is relevant.

Because God wouldn't make you some way and then call it a sin because then, hypothetically, God would be CREATING sin. Sex is biologically a very human thing. Very few can go through life without fulfilling it which is why sex isn't sin (abusing it is, but within a single, mutual relationship it's a symbol and a fulfillment). So for God to give a certain sexual desire to a person then tell them NOT to fulfill it, doesn't exactly shine well on God.

Everything you are born with God gives you. God doesn't tempt you and won't give you any sort of gene that WOULD tempt you.
 
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Zaac

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Whether or not it is genetic or choice is relevant.

Actually it is not because God does not dicate what is obedient or disobedient based upon genetics.

Obedience is an issue of CHOICE, not genetics.

Because God wouldn't make you some way and then call it a sin because then, hypothetically, God would be CREATING sin.

Biblically, that defense holds no water.

God made us human capable of committing every sin imaginable. Does that also mean that He created sin?

Does sin become less than sin just because we can commit it? Is adultery not a sin ?

Sex is biologically a very human thing. Very few can go through life without fulfilling it which is why sex isn't sin (abusing it is, but within a single, mutual relationship it's a symbol and a fulfillment).

Biblically, another untrue statement. It's called self-control. The people of God are not to be mastered by sex any more than they should be mastered by mammon.

And there is nothing that Biblically supports your statement that somehow disobedience is not sin just because very few can be obedient.

That's a seccular view. It is not the Kingdom view.:)


So for God to give a certain sexual desire to a person then tell them NOT to fulfill it, doesn't exactly shine well on God.

Heterosexuals have a sexual desire. They are told to not fornicate and to not commit adultery. The parameters are the same for everyone. Heterosexuals are directed to not fornicate as are homosexuals. That shines on God as being a JUST GOD.

Everything you are born with God gives you. God doesn't tempt you and won't give you any sort of gene that WOULD tempt you.

How would you being born with an affinity toward one sex or the other be a temptation to sin other than by your own choosing?

13When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. 15Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. James 1:13-15

If there is any
 
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TheFathersDaughter

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Actually it is not because God does not dicate what is obedient or disobedient based upon genetics.

Obedience is an issue of CHOICE, not genetics.



Biblically, that defense holds no water.

God made us human capable of committing every sin imaginable. Does that also mean that He created sin?

Does sin become less than sin just because we can commit it? Is adultery not a sin ?



Biblically, another untrue statement. It's called self-control. The people of God are not to be mastered by sex any more than they should be mastered by mammon.

And there is nothing that Biblically supports your statement that somehow disobedience is not sin just because very few can be obedient.

That's a seccular view. It is not the Kingdom view.:)




Heterosexuals have a sexual desire. They are told to not fornicate and to not commit adultery. The parameters are the same for everyone. Heterosexuals are directed to not fornicate as are homosexuals. That shines on God as being a JUST GOD.



How would you being born with an affinity toward one sex or the other be a temptation to sin other than by your own choosing?

13When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. 15Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. James 1:13-15

If there is any

So the people who make hand sanitizer are initially making poison and should be called guilty for murder just because it CAN be eatten. Making something that is capable of something and making something that's supposed to do something are two entirely different things. You can not compare them. Because something can be capable of something that is not it's initial purpose.

There's nothing Biblically that says enjoying sex is sin. And technically, the Bible does. Song of Songs embraces sex as far more than just a way to make children and as something completely natural. I'm not saying "go have sex", in fact I specifically addressed SINGLE, MUTUAL RELATIONSHIPS. Obviously, there is far more to sex than just the sex part.

Again, big difference. God tells us not to steal. By your logic, that means He just doesn't want us to have anything because obviously stealing is the only way to get what we want. Of course, that isn't true. Likewise, God tells us not to fornicate. This doesn't mean we can't have sex or fulfill sexual desire, no matter what orientation we are.

You just said whether or not you're born with it is irrelevent. I said that God makes whatever you're born with from the start. If God creates you purposely with an attraction for men, God is initially doing the tempting.
 
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GwynApNudd

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I was born this way.

And in Matt 19:12, Jesus agrees that some men are born this way "from their mother's womb."

Let's just put this out there. In the midst of all these numerous threads on homosexuality and people doing word studies, has any person shown that God does anything other than prohibit same-sex sexual acts?

Yes, we have.

It is irrelevant how you think you were born. And it is irrelevant whether or not you chose to be gay or straight.

Agreed.

But as a human being, we all make the choice to sin. God's Word makes it clear that sexual acts with the same sex are prohibited.

But it isn't all that clear. What is clear is that "man-lying" (Leviticus 20:13) was prohibited to the Children of Israel as part of the holiness code (Leviticus 20:22-26)

And this is backed up with the Full Counsel of God's Word meaning that all of God's Word confirms this.

And exactly how is this determined?

Has anyone in support of the committing of homosexual acts yet to produce any uniform agreement of Scripture about God affirming the committing of homosexual acts?

I'm not sure I know what you are asking here. I'm not sure you know what you are asking.

Are you asking if there are any verses where God commands same-sex sexual acts for the sake of sex? Of course there aren't, any more than there are any verses where God commands cross-sex sexual acts for the sake of sex. Such "fertility rites" at the behest of a god are the kind of idolatry that is specifically prohibited.

Or are you asking about God blessing same-sex relationships? There are a lot of those. Nothing is said one way or another about which, if any, included sex. That, God seems to be saying, is none of our business. we should worry about ourselves and our own relationships, and not pry into others. (See Matt 7:1-5)
 
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Ave Maria

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It is not a choice to be a homosexual or not. However, it is a choice whether or not to engage in homosexual activities. However, loving and consensual homosexual activities are not sinful.
 
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MrPirate

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I was born this way.

Let's just put this out there. In the midst of all these numerous threads on homosexuality and people doing word studies, has any person shown that God does anything other than prohibit same-sex sexual acts?
yes.
However, you have ignored and dismissed anyone who dares to disagree with you on the topic.





It is irrelevant how you think you were born. And it is irrelevant whether or not you chose to be gay or straight.
No it is entirely relevant. The main reason the pro-discrimination crowd wishes to pretend that sexual oriention is a “choice” is that by claiming some sort of choice or by diminishing a minority to a set of actions they avoid the unpleasant but entirely accurate comparison to racism.

But as a human being, we all make the choice to sin. God's Word makes it clear that sexual acts with the same sex are prohibited.
As has been demonstrated multiple times…the bible is anything but clear on this point

And this is backed up with the Full Counsel of God's Word meaning that all of God's Word confirms this.
Untrue.

Has anyone in support of the committing of homosexual acts yet to produce any uniform agreement of Scripture about God affirming the committing of homosexual acts?
strawman

One could easily ask the same question of you…
“Has anyone in support of the committing acts of prejudice and discrimination yet to produce any uniform agreement of Scripture about God affirming the committing of such hate based acts?
 
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MrPirate

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It is not a choice to be a homosexual or not. However, it is a choice whether or not to engage in homosexual activities. However, loving and consensual homosexual activities are not sinful.
The only “choice” involved is the choice to live honestly and openly in the face of hate and bigotry…or the choice to live a lie.
 
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BAFRIEND

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Whether or not it is genetic or choice is relevant.

Because God wouldn't make you some way and then call it a sin because then, hypothetically, God would be CREATING sin. Sex is biologically a very human thing. Very few can go through life without fulfilling it which is why sex isn't sin (abusing it is, but within a single, mutual relationship it's a symbol and a fulfillment). So for God to give a certain sexual desire to a person then tell them NOT to fulfill it, doesn't exactly shine well on God.

Everything you are born with God gives you. God doesn't tempt you and won't give you any sort of gene that WOULD tempt you.
So how do you explain when a baby is born with no arms or other severe deformities ?

No one is claiming that being born without arms is a good thing, are they ?

We do not know why God chooses not to intervene against natural law in cases like these. Just like your dog does not understand why you leave the home to go to work.

But just because you are born a homosexual, does not mean it is in line with natural law, moral, or not an objective disorder.
 
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WashedBytheSon

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Whether or not it is genetic or choice is relevant.

Because God wouldn't make you some way and then call it a sin because then, hypothetically, God would be CREATING sin. Sex is biologically a very human thing. Very few can go through life without fulfilling it which is why sex isn't sin (abusing it is, but within a single, mutual relationship it's a symbol and a fulfillment). So for God to give a certain sexual desire to a person then tell them NOT to fulfill it, doesn't exactly shine well on God.

Everything you are born with God gives you. God doesn't tempt you and won't give you any sort of gene that WOULD tempt you.

God wouldn't create someone gay and then call it a sin or an abomination. God calls homosexuality an abomination, therefore, you cannot be created gay. Some people desire to fornicate, does that mean they were born to be fornicators? And I would like to know what proof you have that being homosexual is indeed genetic, because from what I understand there is no proof.
 
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WashedBytheSon

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And in Matt 19:12, Jesus agrees that some men are born this way "from their mother's womb."



Yes, we have.



Agreed.



But it isn't all that clear. What is clear is that "man-lying" (Leviticus 20:13) was prohibited to the Children of Israel as part of the holiness code (Leviticus 20:22-26)



And exactly how is this determined?



I'm not sure I know what you are asking here. I'm not sure you know what you are asking.

Are you asking if there are any verses where God commands same-sex sexual acts for the sake of sex? Of course there aren't, any more than there are any verses where God commands cross-sex sexual acts for the sake of sex. Such "fertility rites" at the behest of a god are the kind of idolatry that is specifically prohibited.

Or are you asking about God blessing same-sex relationships? There are a lot of those. Nothing is said one way or another about which, if any, included sex. That, God seems to be saying, is none of our business. we should worry about ourselves and our own relationships, and not pry into others. (See Matt 7:1-5)

Matt 19:12 is not talking about homosexuals. It is talking about celibacy. What we have scripturally, is proof that God only sanctifies sex in a marriage, and marriage in the bible is defined as being between a man and a woman. There is no proof that God blesses homosexual relationships--there is proof that God condemns them.
 
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MrPirate

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So how do you explain when a baby is born with no arms or other severe deformities ?

No one is claiming that being born without arms is a good thing, are they ?

We do not know why God chooses not to intervene against natural law in cases like these. Just like your dog does not understand why you leave the home to go to work.

But just because you are born a homosexual, does not mean it is in line with natural law, moral, or not an objective disorder.
Wow…comparing sexual oriention to a birth defect. Shows a level of desperation almost at the same level as falsely comparing homosexuals to pedophiles
 
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Brieuse

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Matt 19:12 is not talking about homosexuals. It is talking about celibacy. What we have scripturally, is proof that God only sanctifies sex in a marriage, and marriage in the bible is defined as being between a man and a woman. There is no proof that God blesses homosexual relationships--there is proof that God condemns them.
It's actually talking about divorce.
 
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MrPirate

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God wouldn't create someone gay and then call it a sin or an abomination. God calls homosexuality an abomination, therefore, you cannot be created gay.
Incorrect the bible calls male on male rape an abomination (along with eating shellfish and pride and oppressing other people) rape is no more a description of homosexuality as it is about heterosexuality.


Some people desire to fornicate, does that mean they were born to be fornicators? And I would like to know what proof you have that being homosexual is indeed genetic, because from what I understand there is no proof.
There is considerable evidence that sexual orientation is inborn, it is available to anyone honest enough to go look for it.
What does not exist is evidence that homosexuality is a choice, or that it is the result of how one was raised, or the relationship one had with one’s parents or that homosexuals are “recruited”
 
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MrPirate

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Matt 19:12 is not talking about homosexuals. It is talking about celibacy. What we have scripturally, is proof that God only sanctifies sex in a marriage, and marriage in the bible is defined as being between a man and a woman. There is no proof that God blesses homosexual relationships--there is proof that God condemns them.
Can you provide the exact chapter and verse where same sex marriage is explicitly condemned?
 
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Zaac

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And in Matt 19:12, Jesus agrees that some men are born this way "from their mother's womb."

Taken out of the context of the FULL COUNSEL of God's Word.

Yes, we have.

Naah. All you've done is open people's eyes to confusion that shows nothing you've said in that regard is of God.



But it isn't all that clear. What is clear is that "man-lying" (Leviticus 20:13) was prohibited to the Children of Israel as part of the holiness code (Leviticus 20:22-26)

Oh it's very clear except to those who wish to author confusion. Again, not of God.



And exactly how is this determined?

By examining the FULL COUNSEL of His Word and using that Word to give testimony to the Word. If YOUR interpretation opens the door for confusion or conflict with what HE says elsewhere in His Word, then your interpretation is WRONG.

We test the spirits against the truth that is God's Word. HE is not a liar and HE does not author confusion.



I'm not sure I know what you are asking here. I'm not sure you know what you are asking.

I know exactly what I'm asking and NOTHING that you have presented meets the standard.

Are you asking if there are any verses where God commands same-sex sexual acts for the sake of sex? Of course there aren't, any more than there are any verses where God commands cross-sex sexual acts for the sake of sex. Such "fertility rites" at the behest of a god are the kind of idolatry that is specifically prohibited.

You're continuing to show your confusion which is why you need to stop throwing stumbling blocks infront of people.

18For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of sinful human nature, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error. 19They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—for a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him. 2 Peter 2:18-19

Gwyn, But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Peter 2:1

Are you looking to bring swift destruction upon yourself by speaking Christ out one side of your mouth and then creating confusion about His Word out the other?
 
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Zaac

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So the people who make hand sanitizer are initially making poison and should be called guilty for murder just because it CAN be eatten. Making something that is capable of something and making something that's supposed to do something are two entirely different things. You can not compare them. Because something can be capable of something that is not it's initial purpose.

Then you continue to apply the logic that allows folks to justify doing what they want with no regard for the FULL COUNSEL of God's Word.

If you want to deal with what was said, we can. But I don't do the whole red herring comparisons.:)

There's nothing Biblically that says enjoying sex is sin.

There sure isn't. But time and time again, God's Word points out that sex is to be between a man and wife joined in covenant with Him. HE speaks of fornication and HE speaks of adultery. Not a single time does He ever give any indication that His intent for sex was for recreational , outside the marriage covenant purposes.

If HE did, then HE would have to have lied about something and God is not a liar.

Plain and simple, when you guys continue to put forth these twists to allow for sin, it's obvious that it is not of God because you've opened the door for confusion about something else that He says.

And technically, the Bible does. Song of Songs embraces sex as far more than just a way to make children and as something completely natural. I'm not saying "go have sex", in fact I specifically addressed SINGLE, MUTUAL RELATIONSHIPS. Obviously, there is far more to sex than just the sex part.

Technically, you're grasping for straws now. And this is what happens when folks try to justify sin. Technically, you can justify whatever you want. But the man of God is still going to speak truth and tell you that God says its wrong and tell you why He says it's wrong.

If you're going to advocate, single mutual relationships, where are you granted the authority to not say "go have sex"?

How is having a single , mutual sexual relationship not sin?

As for sex, it is an act. There is NOTHING more to it than committing the act. You either do it or you don't. The reasons behind that decision don't change the act, and the fact that God says it is sin if not done within parameters clearly given by Him.

Again, big difference. God tells us not to steal. By your logic, that means He just doesn't want us to have anything because obviously stealing is the only way to get what we want. Of course, that isn't true. Likewise, God tells us not to fornicate. This doesn't mean we can't have sex or fulfill sexual desire, no matter what orientation we are.

Somwhere along the line you have mistaken what was said. The Bible says "Everything is permissible for me"—but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible for me"—but I will not be mastered by anything. 1 Cor. 6:12

SO yes, you can do whatever you CHOOSE. But God has clearly defined whether or not what you CHOOSE to do is sin. And He has clearly given parameters in which you may do what HE says.

If you want to steal, you stealing has nothing to do with you having anything for there is a LEGAL way for you to get the things you need.

If you want to have sex outside the marriage covenant of man, woman, and Christ, you have the right to make that CHOICE. But it does not change the Biblical affirmation that your way is NOT God's Way and thus your way is disobedient.


You just said whether or not you're born with it is irrelevent.

It is irrelevant. Being born with an attraction doesn't make you fornicate. The choice has to be made.

I said that God makes whatever you're born with from the start. If God creates you purposely with an attraction for men, God is initially doing the tempting.

And Biblically, what you say is not of God. The Bible says 13When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. James 1:13-14

God makes people attracted to the opposite sex too. Is He also tempting them to fornicate?

You're offering up responses that Biblically do not hold up.
 
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